Gay Marriages

[Charmer]

Would you say you agree or disagree that society has the right to define what it will and will not accept culturally?

Of course society does; that's a no-brainer.

But you said free society, therefore in the free society you speak of, Gays do not have any rights and are second-class citizens. Therefore, they are not free.

Hopefully, in my lifetime, this discrimination will be a thing of the past and we can all move on realizing that Gays getting married in the same way as Straights DOES NOT affect anyone's life and Straight people go on living as they have.

Hell, I'm Straight and have a wife, but I also know that two Gay people getting married is not going to change my Straight marriage and put me and my Wife in any danger.

 

[Tim]

Would you say you agree or disagree that society has the right to define what it will and will not accept culturally?

Not if it steps on the rights of others.

You cannot have a ballot initiative to remove the voting rights of women.
You cannot have a ballot initiative to keep African American's from using a "whites only" bathroom
You cannot have a ballot initiative to prevent homosexuals from adopting children.

So how can you justify a ballot initiative to prevent them from marriage?

 

[Natasha]

I don't know if I would say that I'm "religious"...but I am a Christian and I try to live my life in that manner and I completely support gay marriage.

Crimzon22, how long have you been in Warner Robins??? If you've been here long enough, I was gonna ask if you had seen a local news article last year...it involved my bestfriend and a judge in backwoods GA that sent her adopted daughter to foster care b/c he didn't think 2 openly gay women should raise children together in a small rural town.

 

[crimzon22]

I don't know if I would say that I'm "religious"...but I am a Christian and I try to live my life in that manner and I completely support gay marriage.

Crimzon22, how long have you been in Warner Robins??? If you've been here long enough, I was gonna ask if you had seen a local news article last year...it involved my bestfriend and a judge in backwoods GA that sent her adopted daughter to foster care b/c he didn't think 2 openly gay women should raise children together in a small rural town.

I've been here for almost 2 years but I spent a chunk in Iraq.

I don't remember reading that article or even hearing about that! I would love to say that I am surprised but there are some small minded people here.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I don't know if I would say that I'm "religious"...but I am a Christian and I try to live my life in that manner and I completely support gay marriage.

Just curious ... do you believe that God supports gay 'marriage'?

 

[Natasha]

I've been here for almost 2 years but I spent a chunk in Iraq.

I don't remember reading that article or even hearing about that! I would love to say that I am surprised but there are some small minded people here.

Yeah, unfortunately she lived in Wilkinson County at the time that she applied for adoption. Now she's moved and she'll be reapplying in Bibb County where the judges are more open-minded. There's a wikipedia page on the whole thing, actually...it's under "the adoption proceedings of Emma Rose."

Just curious ... do you believe that God supports gay 'marriage'?

I believe that God loves all his children no matter what and that he makes no mistakes when it comes to his children. I also believe that homosexuals are born that way and do not choose to be that way. I have a hard time looking at my bestfriend who I love more than anything and thinking that my God would not want her to be happy in love and life simply b/c she dates women. *shrugs*

 

[IntruderLS1]

Not if it steps on the rights of others.

You cannot have a ballot initiative to remove the voting rights of women.
You cannot have a ballot initiative to keep African American's from using a "whites only" bathroom
You cannot have a ballot initiative to prevent homosexuals from adopting children.

So how can you justify a ballot initiative to prevent them from marriage?

Indeed all good points. Here's the kicker though... All laws are a restriction on the citizens that would choose to break them.

"Rights of others" is very open ended, and can be applied to literally ANY desire by ANY group of people.

We tell people they can't walk around down town naked, but who would it really hurt?

Farmers go to jail if they sleep with their sheep, but who are we to tell him he can't?

Why can we tell people they're not allowed to smoke crack in the privacy of their own homes?

How dare somebody tell me and my wife we can't have sex in the movie theator... We'll keep it quiet.


See what I'm getting at? Free society has the right to put certain limits down. While nobody in their right mind would argue with womens suffrage, or equality for blacks, it is not unreasonable to sit back and ask ourselves how much we're willing to accept as a society.

For a matter of record, I know these views are unpopular here. I've been called some pretty vile (all untrue) names for them. The gays that I know, and the gay that I'm related to all know where I stand and why. In real life, I've NEVER, EVER been accused of hatred, because it so obviously far from the truth. Even though I don't agree with the lifestyle, I disagree with it in the exact same fashion as I disagree with any lifestyle I find to be wrong. I understand that we all have our challenges in life. We all have our weaknesses. We all do things that are wrong. I don't consider myself better, and I don't consider them worse for it. I'm certainly not on any sort of pace to become the perfect human before I die.

 

[Peter Parka]

Just curious ... do you believe that God supports gay 'marriage'?

Grace raises a good point. The god of the Bible is deeply homophobic.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I believe that God loves all his children no matter what and that he makes no mistakes when it comes to his children.

I agree.

I also believe that homosexuals are born that way and do not choose to be that way.

I have no idea on this as I have gay friends that say they were born that way and others that say they chose to be that way. I don't even see as why it matters.

I was born with the propensity for certain behavior as well (as we all are) and battle my flesh constantly in this fallen world. Homosexuals are not alone in their fight against certain behaviors that God did not create us for.

I have a hard time looking at my bestfriend who I love more than anything and thinking that my God would not want her to be happy in love and life simply b/c she dates women. *shrugs*

Hey, I am with you. I don't like all the things God has to say either. But it is what it is. God cares about what is best for us, which is not always what we think is best for us. I don't think God does not want us to be happy in love and in life, quite the contrary ... I believe he wants all of his children to be all that he made them to be regardless of the fallen state they are currently in.

Grace raises a good point. The god of the Bible is deeply homophobic.

I don't think God is homophobic. I do however think that since he created us, he knows how he created us to 'work' within his divine plan. Being in a fallen world and of sinful flesh, it is a struggle to 'work' in that plan, but when done it actually sets us free. It also builds us up. In addition it releases blessings to us and those around us.

This is what God's message states ^. I don't always agree. But I am not God. I'm sure one day it will all be totally clear. Until then I'll love my neighbor as myself regardless of their sin as I hope others will love me regardless of mine.

 

[Obdurate]

When people are debating whether people are born gay or not, why can't it be both? Can't people be, uh, different? Some may be born like that, some may choose. I don't know enough about science to back up anything, but it's just a thought to throw out there. But I also know that not everyone is the same (WHOA, WHAT A REVELATION), so it could be different from person to person.

That's my word.

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't think God is homophobic. I do however think that since he created us, he knows how he created us to 'work' within his divine plan. Being in a fallen world and of sinful flesh, it is a struggle to 'work' in that plan, but when done it actually sets us free. It also builds us up. In addition it releases blessings to us and those around us.

This is what God's message states ^. I don't always agree. But I am not God. I'm sure one day it will all be totally clear. Until then I'll love my neighbor as myself regardless of their sin as I hope others will love me regardless of mine.

I dunno, he does want to kill people for being gay, sounds pretty homophobic to me!

 

[gillibean]

I dunno, he does want to kill people for being gay, sounds pretty homophobic to me!

Sounds sadistic to me. It's at least partially biological. Creating someone then punishing them because they are acting the way they were made is pretty cruel.

 

[GraceAbounds]

When people are debating whether people are born gay or not, why can't it be both? Can't people be, uh, different? Some may be born like that, some may choose.

I agree. I don't know and it makes no difference to me.

 

[groundpounder]

Indeed all good points. Here's the kicker though... All laws are a restriction on the citizens that would choose to break them.

"Rights of others" is very open ended, and can be applied to literally ANY desire by ANY group of people.

We tell people they can't walk around down town naked, but who would it really hurt?

Farmers go to jail if they sleep with their sheep, but who are we to tell him he can't?

Why can we tell people they're not allowed to smoke crack in the privacy of their own homes?

How dare somebody tell me and my wife we can't have sex in the movie theator... We'll keep it quiet.


See what I'm getting at? Free society has the right to put certain limits down. While nobody in their right mind would argue with womens suffrage, or equality for blacks, it is not unreasonable to sit back and ask ourselves how much we're willing to accept as a society.

For a matter of record, I know these views are unpopular here. I've been called some pretty vile (all untrue) names for them. The gays that I know, and the gay that I'm related to all know where I stand and why. In real life, I've NEVER, EVER been accused of hatred, because it so obviously far from the truth. Even though I don't agree with the lifestyle, I disagree with it in the exact same fashion as I disagree with any lifestyle I find to be wrong. I understand that we all have our challenges in life. We all have our weaknesses. We all do things that are wrong. I don't consider myself better, and I don't consider them worse for it. I'm certainly not on any sort of pace to become the perfect human before I die.

This is an example of an excellent post, people.

Grace raises a good point. The god of the Bible is deeply homophobic.

I dunno, he does want to kill people for being gay, sounds pretty homophobic to me!

you're a piece of work, PP! :clap
I gotta hand it to ya!

 

[IntruderLS1]

This is an example of an excellent post, people.

Where did the emoti go with the guy poking the other guy with a stick?

I need that one, because I'm looking for Tim to come back to the thread.

 

[thatguyjeff]

Gays should not be allowed to marry. And straight people should not be allowed to marry either. At least as far as government recognition goes...

The institution of marriage is a religious one. If there truly is to be the separation of church and state, then marriage has no business in the state's affairs. Churches are still free of course to marry whomever they want and deny marriages to whomever they want as well.

As far as the government is concerned, if a couple (either gender, same, or otherwise) wishes to enter into some sort of agreement whereby they share their financial resources, assets, prinicple residence, and are mutually responsible for each other's welfare then that's where civil unions come into play. And civil unions, as far as the law goes, should know no limits with regard to any demographic factor, except with regard to age (meaning a minor child should not be eligible to enter into such a union).

 

[Josef]

Interesting point of view. How do you see marriage as differing from a civil union? From what I can tell form your post there is no legal difference between the two, only some abstract concept of religion. What I'm getting at is if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

[thatguyjeff]

In a way you're correct, there really is no difference in a civil union vs. what a marriage is today. But separating the two would solve a few problems.

First, like I said, a marriage is a religious institution. Right now, any clergy can create a legal contract that is recognized by the state. Not good in my book. Marriage has all these moral/philosophical strings attached (the gay issue being one of them). And the clergy have no business in matters of the state. But at the moment they can ratify a legal contract between two people.

In addition, there's a double standard that exists. You can form a marriage legally in a church with clergy, but to dissolve the marriage (divorce), you need the courts. A separate, church intervention is needed in order to abolish the marriage in the eyes of that particular church.

Plus, any particular church can deny your right to marry another opposite gender adult for any reason and force you to seek an alternative method. Essentially, churches are given the right to openly discriminate on the basis of freedom of religion. But this discrimination is misplaced when it impacts matters of the state.

The result is what we have now, a cloudy system that has too many moral implications driving matters of the state.

 

[Josef]

I've never really thought about it like that before. Consider this a subscription to your way of thinking :cool

 

[HANUMAN]

What do you think about gay marriages? Should a gay couple have the same rights as a straight couple?

100 % YES.