Fair tax ?

[The Man]

Tim John MA...you lefts where are you...how much do you want to fuck the rich?
I see you guys lurking down there

 

[Stone]

Incredible !!! it would actually be raising taxes on the rich{if you apply a flat tax}...as the scale goes back down again in the upper brackets with the current system !!...thus we could have a lower average TAX...on lower brackets
You have been whining about wanting to increase taxes on the rich....when you have no idea what our current tax structure is !!!!.,,,fucking incredible
Why do you even post in the politics threads?
...........................

No.....your tax model is based on consumption, not income.

quote from your opening post:

The tax occurs at the time of spending

As it's consumption that drives the tax revenue stream in your model, all those not of the very wealthy ( the majority of the population )pay a disproportionate amount of the total tax compared to income taxed in a progressive system.

Flat tax on consumption favors the wealthy because their income is protected from taxation and it's only their consumption that's taxed.




Your model punishes the common man and favors the wealthy.

 

[Tim]

Incredible !!! it would actually be raising taxes on the rich{if you apply a flat tax}...as the scale goes back down again in the upper brackets with the current system !!...thus we could have a lower average TAX...on lower brackets
You have been whining about wanting to increase taxes on the rich....when you have no idea what our current tax structure is !!!!.,,,fucking incredible
Why do you even post in the politics threads?


There are no details...what do you think is a fair tax across the board....what percent of ones earning do you feel is fair to give to the govt.


I know exactly how they work..thus why i started this thread...to make it easy for people like you.
We have several different taxes as of current...to try to figure an average for everybody would be a nightmare....thus why this thread..what percent of your earnings do you feel is fair to give to the govt...Its a pretty easy question

Incredible !!! it would actually be raising taxes on the rich{if you apply a flat tax}

This statement tells me you don't have a clue. Please explain to me why every expert on flat taxes add a rebate check for the low income people in their plan to help offset the unfair burden on them. Even they admit that it favors the rich.

If a single guy makes $1,000,000/year salary he would be in the 35% tax bracket and pay $326,761 if no deductions were made. That's an effective rate of 32.6%.
Now let's imagine we have a flat tax rate of 50% (twice what you propose)
This tax will only be applied to products he purchased... So how much of that $1,000,000 do you think he's going to spend in a year? 10% of it? Maybe 20%? Hell, let's say he spends $300,000 of the million each year and invests the rest. He would only pay 50% tax on the $300,000 or $150,000. That would make his effective tax rate 15%
And that ONLY if he spends $300,000 of his pay. If the rate was at 25% like you are saying, then his effective rate would be 7.5%

Now look at the average working stiff.
He has very little to nothing left to invest after paying cost of living and bills. He pays near 100% out investing nothing throughout the year. At a flat rate of 25% he will have an effective tax rate of 25%. At 50% he will have an effective rate of 50%...

So please tell me how the rich will be paying more.

 

[Stone]

A sales tax, ie fair tax or flat tax is regressive in nature and would put most of the burden on the poor and working class.
To just come up with a percentage without more details would be impossible.

Why anyone would suggest moving away from a progressive tax and move to a recessive tax is beyond me.

And to try to combine all taxes into one shows that you don't even understand how taxes work.

Regressive, indeed.
With a fixed 'sales tax'......the greater the income, the less that income is taxed proportionally.
Conversely, the less the income, the greater that income is taxed proportionally.

 

[The Man]

No.....your tax model is based on consumption, not income.

quote from your opening post:


As it's consumption that drives the tax revenue stream in your model, all those not of the very wealthy ( the majority of the population )pay a disproportionate amount of the total tax compared to income taxed in a progressive system.

Flat tax on consumption favors the wealthy because their income is protected from taxation and it's only their consumption that's taxed.




Your model punishes the common man and favors the wealthy.

Flat tax on consumption favors the wealthy because their income is protected from taxation and it's only their consumption that's taxed.

Then apply it in the beginning I dont give a shit...but just for your information wealth just doesnt sit...As it loses value due to inflation....this has been explained over and over to you
People and corps do not get rich "sitting" on wealth you shaggy headed cave dweller,,,,they get wealthy by investing...investing is spending....No money fell out of the sky...wealth is created

The idea here in case you are having trouble catching on ...Is how much is fair tax applied evenly to all earnings.
There obviously may be a bump or two along the way.....I am not trying to create a flat tax system..It was just used as an example of "We all pay the same percentage of tax on all earnings"
The only reason I went with the consumption rather than pretax...is so people would not start concentrating on our tax structure.

The idea here stone is rather simple....
How much is a fair tax applied evenly on all earnings?
Just assume everyone will be paying the same percent this goes for corp individuals any and all earning...again all earnings...and give me a percentage of what you think is fair.

 

[Johnfromokc]

TM described in a single meme:

 

[Tim]

The idea here stone is rather simple....
How much is a fair tax applied evenly on all earnings?

There is no such thing. There is no single percentage that works across all social economic levels.
That's why we have a progressive tax now and every other proposed tax is prorated in some fashion.

 

[Accountable]

How about a sales tax on all non-essential purchases (food, utilities, housing & clothing up to a set amount)? Include stock purchases in the mix. Every stock purchase begets revenue. When the investor sells, the buyer pays sales tax again. By including investment purchases and even food, clothing, & shelter purchases over a set amount, shouldn't that eliminate, or at least minimize, the "regressive" label?

 

[The Man]

This statement tells me you don't have a clue. Please explain to me why every expert on flat taxes add a rebate check for the low income people in their plan to help offset the unfair burden on them. Even they admit that it favors the rich.

If a single guy makes $1,000,000/year salary he would be in the 35% tax bracket and pay $326,761 if no deductions were made. That's an effective rate of 32.6%.
Now let's imagine we have a flat tax rate of 50% (twice what you propose)
This tax will only be applied to products he purchased... So how much of that $1,000,000 do you think he's going to spend in a year? 10% of it? Maybe 20%? Hell, let's say he spends $300,000 of the million each year and invests the rest. He would only pay 50% tax on the $300,000 or $150,000. That would make his effective tax rate 15%
And that ONLY if he spends $300,000 of his pay. If the rate was at 25% like you are saying, then his effective rate would be 7.5%

Now look at the average working stiff.
He has very little to nothing left to invest after paying cost of living and bills. He pays near 100% out investing nothing throughout the year. At a flat rate of 25% he will have an effective tax rate of 25%. At 50% he will have an effective rate of 50%...

So please tell me how the rich will be paying more.

You are clueless.
Stop acting like you know something....please you are only showing ignorance..
The tax structure is very complicated...forget your fucking numbers...that is just ONE TAX.
ONE MORE FUCKING TIME FOR THE FUCKING MORONS....THERE ARE MULITUDES OF OTHER TAXES...LOOP HOLES ETC....THE RICH ARE PAYING LESS OF A PERCENTAGE OF WHAT THEY MAKE....DO YOU UNDERSTAND??
The fucking actual percentages themselves actually favor them....DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

What do you consider a fair tax across all earnings....if you are not going to respond to that question...then GTFO and stop wasting my time...I dont give a shit about what you think you know about taxes...you have even stated in other threads that you do not know our tax structure...then you want to come to my thread...blabber off some shit
out of the air....as say "so"

The fucking question is easy...the concept is simple...all earning will be taxed equally {percentage wise}...I dont give a shit if its taxed first or later...who gives a fuck the idea is we all pay the same percentage tax with my "scenario"
If this is to complicated for you then get the fuck out of my thread dude.

 

[Tim]

How about a sales tax on all non-essential purchases (food, utilities, housing & clothing up to a set amount)? Include stock purchases in the mix. Every stock purchase begets revenue. When the investor sells, the buyer pays sales tax again. By including investment purchases and even food, clothing, & shelter purchases over a set amount, shouldn't that eliminate, or at least minimize, the "regressive" label?

Why make it more difficult than a simple progressive tax rate with zero deductions. Since you will be trying to match current effective rates, the new percentages will be much lower than what we have today.

 

[The Man]

How about a sales tax on all non-essential purchases (food, utilities, housing & clothing up to a set amount)? Include stock purchases in the mix. Every stock purchase begets revenue. When the investor sells, the buyer pays sales tax again. By including investment purchases and even food, clothing, & shelter purchases over a set amount, shouldn't that eliminate, or at least minimize, the "regressive" label?

I was headed that way myself.....NO tax on food etc same as you...this gives the poor man a more sporting chance when times are tough...but I want to get a number from people first as we may have to bump it up a little if we are going to have exclusions...so just for the time being no exclusions

 

[Tim]

...you have even stated in other threads that you do not know our tax structure...

Tell you what, you find where I said this and I will leave your thread forever.

I guarantee that I know more about our tax structure and code than you will ever know.

 

[The Man]

There is no such thing. There is no single percentage that works across all social economic levels.
That's why we have a progressive tax now and every other proposed tax is prorated in some fashion.

Dude I am not asking your opinion of what you think will work or not work.
I am asking what do you consider a fair tax applied evenly across all earning.
No options here...its a simple question.

 

[Accountable]

Why make it more difficult than a simple progressive tax rate with zero deductions. Since you will be trying to match current effective rates, the new percentages will be much lower than what we have today.

I think my hypothetical sales tax is much simpler than any progressive tax rate, but there's no way in hell I'd vote for it. The income tax is here to stay. It will never be eliminated, and I'm not about to add a sales tax to it.

Give everyone one income tax rate. No deductions beyond the individual one. Count all income as standard income, including capital gains. Including sales revenue, not just profit. The rich's tax bill will be great enough. Hell, if that's not enough for the gov't to run on then it's trying to do too much.

 

[The Man]

Tell you what, you find where I said this and I will leave your thread forever.

I guarantee that I know more about our tax structure and code than you will ever know.

Dude,,I would rather you stay TBO
I just want a fucking number....why is that so hard?
Hell I will up mine to 28 percent.

 

[Accountable]

Tbo?.

 

[The Man]

Tbo?.

TBO....To be honest

 

[Tim]

Give everyone one income tax rate. No deductions beyond the individual one. Count all income as standard income, including capital gains. Including sales revenue, not just profit. The rich's tax bill will be great enough. Hell, if that's not enough for the gov't to run on then it's trying to do too much.

I think we are in favor of the same thing here... my only change would be to have the tax rate progressive

$0 - $10,000 = 5%
$10,001 - $50,000 = 8%
$50,001 - $200,000 = 12%
etc.

Something along those lines but with actual percentages that make sense (maybe lower, maybe higher)

 

[Tim]

Dude I am not asking your opinion of what you think will work or not work.
I am asking what do you consider a fair tax applied evenly across all earning.
No options here...its a simple question.

How the hell am I supposed to give you a number when I'm telling you it WON'T FUCKING WORK.

How hard is that to understand? I will not put some arbitrary bullshit percentage that will apply to every single person no matter their level of income.

Maybe I would give you an answer if you were capable of asking a coherent question that makes fucking sense.

Did you notice that not one single person answered your bullshit question?

 

[The Man]

I think we are in favor of the same thing here... my only change would be to have the tax rate progressive

$0 - $10,000 = 5%
$10,001 - $50,000 = 8%
$50,001 - $200,000 = 12%
etc.

Something along those lines but with actual percentages that make sense (maybe lower, maybe higher)

How about say 40 percent for all...no deductions ...nothing
Thats any and all earnings...gains etc..corps
is that to high?