Fair tax ?

[The Man]

He often changes his argument when ever it gets in trouble. He debates out of convenience of the moment rather than addressing the moment. ( Bullshitting )
He often unknowingly changes his argument as he tries to further explain it .

In this thread, TM went from arguing for a flat tax based on consumption to tax credits on investments that generate new jobs( even though legislation already exists and hasn't added many new jobs) to the government creating jobs in a socialist manner with out the demand for increased consumption nor need for the job.

I am copying this thread to my hard drive.....it's even stranger than TM's chicken hawk defense.

There was no argument moron..I created the thread as a question.
You argued it wouldnt work...which is just your opinion.
To further I never stated it would work.
The entire point was...how much of our money should the govt get to operate on as a whole.
Of which your chickenshit self would not give a response.
IMO 25 to 28 percent for all branches should be enough...govt spending has increased 40 times since 1960..time to slow govt growth and let the private industry grow accordingly.

My proposition to let rich invest money that was going to be taxed anyway ..to create jobs was after the question/had nothing to do with my original question of what is a fair tax.

 

[The Man]

TM.......You forgot to mention that 'Fair Tax' was not a flat tax and it is regressive in regards to income.

From your link:





Pretty much the way the argument went against you.

You really are ignorant arent you...if you read what I stated early in the thread...the poor would get checks mailed to them which would offset their earnings/ they would still be paying the tax but would receive aid which equates to a lower tax paid by them.

 

[Stone]

There was no argument moron..I created the thread as a question.
You argued it wouldnt work...which is just your opinion.
To further I never stated it would work.
The entire point was...how much of our money should the govt get to operate on as a whole.
Of which your chickenshit self would not give a response.
IMO 25 to 28 percent for all branches should be enough...govt spending has increased 40 times since 1960..time to slow govt growth and let the private industry grow accordingly.

My proposition to let rich invest money that was going to be taxed anyway ..to create jobs was after the question/had nothing to do with my original question of what is a fair tax.

The opening post.

What would be a fair tax if it was applied equally to all earners across the board{all tax brackets}
This include corps, capital gains,everything..all earnings.
No property tax ...extra gas tax...tobacco tax ... beer tax...just one tax even across the board for all earners...regardless of how the earnings are obtained or what they are spent on.
The tax occurs at the time of spending.,,not when funds are acquired
This tax will cover all combined govt spending.

I say 25 percent is fair

The argument:

I say 25 percent is fair

But you just claimed there was no argument .....and there it was:

I say 25 percent is fair

I say 25 percent is fair

I created the thread as a question.

Looks like you made a bold statement :eek

What would be a fair tax

The entire point was...how much of our money should the govt get to operate on as a whole.

I really don't think you're being truthful, TM.....it's just too obvious a lie....:cool

Of which your chickenshit self would not give a response.

I'm not an economist......sorry ( )

IMO 25 to 28 percent for all branches should be enough

Well....get an interview with Congress and let them know what you thimk.
( bet you wind up getting water boarded......just kidding )

My proposition to let rich invest money that was going to be taxed anyway

Translation: let the rich get richer with an unnecessary tax credit

to create jobs was after the question/had nothing to do with my original question of what is a fair tax.

Translation: you tried to distract your flogged claims with more BULLSHIT



Yeah!

 

[The Man]

It looks very good for me because I've been using the term demand in the proper context and you haven't.
Where I use it correctly, you use the term with ignorance.


The issue is supply and demand .
Demand is a relative concept, varying in value as a relationship between sales and supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand



To have no demand is to have no request for the product or service

So the issue isn't about no demand...it's about demand that changes



I don't support your scheme to rob from the poor to give to the rich in a flat tax scheme based on sales..... nor your socialist scheme to create unnecessary jobs funded by taxation.

You are a fucking moron ....while we create things because of demand...we also create which causes a demand.
Fuck with your logic..we would still be riding horses.
We created the car and demand followed.
Right now there is a demand for TVs...the more tv manufacturers the more they produce..competition drives down price and we stick one in every bedroom.
Same for fucking food you moron..the more farmers the cheaper the food....WHY they paid farmers to not farm,,to keep the prices up.
Why Opec limits production of oil.
You are a fucking idiot....You need use that "stupid" poster you keep posting for your signature.

You are the perfect example of a college idiot stone.
Now I demand you supply some posts with actual logic.

 

[Stone]

You really are ignorant arent you...if you read what I stated early in the thread...the poor would get checks mailed to them which would offset their earnings/ they would still be paying the tax but would receive aid which equates to a lower tax paid by them.

the poor would get checks mailed to them which would offset their earnings

Now you've introduced welfare .....

This just gets better and better

 

[Stone]

You are a fucking moron ....while we create things because of demand...we also create which causes a demand.
Fuck with your logic..we would still be riding horses.
We created the car and demand followed.
Right now there is a demand for TVs...the more tv manufacturers the more they produce..competition drives down price and we stick one in every bedroom.
Same for fucking food you moron..the more farmers the cheaper the food....WHY they paid farmers to not farm,,to keep the prices up.
Why Opec limits production of oil.
You are a fucking idiot....You need use that "stupid" poster you keep posting for your signature.

while we create things because of demand...we also create which causes a demand.

Ah!....but the catch is the middle class at the moment can't afford this increased supply.
And with you arguing to increase taxes on the middle class, it doesn't make the scenario any better.
So...creating new jobs along with an increased supply at this time......is illogical in a capitalist economic model.

TM.....you're actually advocating the inefficiencies of a socialist economic model.

We created the car and demand followed.

Because there was an expanding demand for the product which the public could afford.
New car sales are still down from a decade ago.

How could increased car production increase sales in the current scenario and still produce increased profits?
Chevy is currently holding 120 day supply of light trucks and having trouble getting inventory down to the typical 60 day mark.
You really think increasing production would sell off a bloated inventory?
Of course not and Chevy is going to be taking a greater loss of profit per vehicle because the supply is too high.

Same for fucking food you moron..the more farmers the cheaper the food....WHY they paid farmers to not farm,,to keep the prices up.

What has this to do with creating unproductive jobs in a saturated market?
TM...this is just another example of you going more illogical in trying to explain yourself.

TM...you do not understand what you are claiming.

You are a fucking idiot

.

 

[Alien Allen]

I was curious about the tax rates from years ago and came across this article

It is on CATO's website so it has a conservative bent for sure. However there are a couple of interesting charts.

This one in particular





Classic mission creep. Start with a low rate. Makes people grumble but not revolt. Then continue raising rates over time.

Crap I lost the chart.

 

[The Man]

STONE

You fail to accept the fact that the more of a product the cheaper it is.{Which takes more jobs to do}
The cheaper it is..this leaves money for us to buy something else...which creates another fucking job.
Are you so dense you can not figure that out.
Its the same reason oil is high with opec has production limits...same for food.
If we limited the production of clothes ...they would go up..and people would wear them longer.
If we produce more...we trash them faster and buy more...which creates more jobs.
This applies to any product and most services.
We did not wake up one day and have no demand stone...our economy is fucked up and needs a jump start..its really that simple.
Why we often do tax cuts...so people can have more spending money to buy stuff which creates jobs.
Its why we raise tobacco prices...to reduce consumption....which reduces jobs as a side effect.
Jesus Christ I am not trying to sound like a prick...but the obvious should not have to be explained over and over.
If you refuse to accept science ....then there is no point of having a discussion ole buddy

 

[Alien Allen]

http://www.cato.org/publications/co...arked-economic-growth-raised-federal-revenues

 

[Stone]

You are a fucking moron ..................

You are the perfect example of a college idiot stone.
Now I demand you supply some posts with actual logic.

You seem upset.....something I posted?


.

 

[The Man]

Ah!....but the catch is the middle class at the moment can't afford this increased supply.
And with you arguing to increase taxes on the middle class, it doesn't make the scenario any better.
So...creating new jobs along with an increased supply at this time......is illogical in a capitalist economic model.

TM.....you're actually advocating the inefficiencies of a socialist economic model.



Because there was an expanding demand for the product which the public could afford.
New car sales are still down from a decade ago.

How could increased car production increase sales in the current scenario and still produce increased profits?
Chevy is currently holding 120 day supply of light trucks and having trouble getting inventory down to the typical 60 day mark.
You really think increasing production would sell off a bloated inventory?
Of course not and Chevy is going to be taking a greater loss of profit per vehicle because the supply is too high.


What has this to do with creating unproductive jobs in a saturated market?
TM...this is just another example of you going more illogical in trying to explain yourself.

TM...you do not understand what you are claiming.









.

The reason car sales are down you fucking moron is not because the demand has gone down...its the economy causing such...my fucking gawd.
Just like in 2009 when they about collapsed.....its because people couldn't afford them not because they no longer wanted them.....and again..jesus fucking Christ.
Stop trying to post like a college educated dip shit and just use some common sense first...then apply your college knowledge if it applies....your god damn degree does not have precedence over common sense !!!!
Now go cut your fucking nuts !!:tooth

And I never said for anyone to open another car plant !!!!!
But anything you post I will shove down your fucking throat :eek

 

[The Man]

You seem upset.....something I posted?


.

Lets rock bitch

 

[Stone]

STONE

You fail to accept the fact that the more of a product the cheaper it is.{Which takes more jobs to do}
The cheaper it is..this leaves money for us to buy something else...which creates another fucking job.
Are you so dense you can not figure that out.
Its the same reason oil is high with opec has production limits...same for food.
If we limited the production of clothes ...they would go up..and people would wear them longer.
If we produce more...we trash them faster and buy more...which creates more jobs.
This applies to any product and most services.
We did not wake up one day and have no demand stone...our economy is fucked up and needs a jump start..its really that simple.
Why we often do tax cuts...so people can have more spending money to buy stuff which creates jobs.
Its why we raise tobacco prices...to reduce consumption....which reduces jobs as a side effect.
Jesus Christ I am not trying to sound like a prick...but the obvious should not have to be explained over and over.
If you refuse to accept science ....then there is no point of having a discussion ole buddy

You fail to accept the fact that the more of a product the cheaper it is.

But you forget there are limits as to how much of a discount is there before the profit model fails ......AND...that the current status of the consumer base is not receptive to increased spending at this time .....AND your plans to tax the middle class more makes the situation worse for buyers and sellers.

Its the same reason oil is high with opec has production limits...same for food

Indeed.....and when the fiscal abilities of a consumer base lag as they now do.....it hurts the sales of those products.
Your argument to further make the poor a welfare class and to tax the middle class even more simply goes against a logical supply and demand scenario.

We did not wake up one day and have no demand stone...our economy is fucked up and needs a jump start..its really that simple.

And your pseudo Marxist theories aren't a solution......just madness.

Why we often do tax cuts...so people can have more spending money to buy stuff which creates jobs.

Then why do you do you want to fuck the middle class ( your words ) with increased taxes through a supposed 'fair tax' plan based on taxing consumption?
And you call me the idiot

I am not trying to sound like a prick

I know....it comes natural for you......

If you refuse to accept science ....then there is no point of having a discussion ole buddy

Looks like you're stuck with me

 

[The Man]

Ah!....but the catch is the middle class at the moment can't afford this increased supply.
And with you arguing to increase taxes on the middle class, it doesn't make the scenario any better.
So...creating new jobs along with an increased supply at this time......is illogical in a capitalist economic model.

.

I want taxes reduced for all !!
Spending has increased 40 times since 1960.
You even stated I proposed a 25 percent tax that covers all...fed state and local sales property everything.
How the fuck is that an increase in taxes to the middle class...when they are paying more than that now !!!
Govt spending is 50k per household ...while the average household does not make alot more than that.

 

[Stone]

Lets rock bitch

Uhmm....No.
.

 

[Stone]

I want taxes reduced for all !!
Spending has increased 40 times since 1960.
You even stated I proposed a 25 percent tax that covers all...fed state and local sales property everything.
How the fuck is that an increase in taxes to the middle class...when they are paying more than that now !!!
Govt spending is 50k per household ...while the average household does not make alot more than that.

I want taxes reduced for all !!

Not with a tax plan based on consumption, you aren't

How the fuck is that an increase in taxes to the middle class

It's income regressive because your plan as posted in this forum, is based on consumption, not income.
Even your Wiki link pointed that out.....and I pointed that out to you.

What would be a fair tax if it was applied equally to all earners across the board{all tax brackets}
This include corps, capital gains,everything..all earnings.
No property tax ...extra gas tax...tobacco tax ... beer tax...just one tax even across the board for all earners...regardless of how the earnings are obtained or what they are spent on.
The tax occurs at the time of spending .,,not when funds are acquired
This tax will cover all combined govt spending.

I say 25 percent is fair

 

[The Man]

But you forget there are limits as to how much of a discount is there before the profit model fails ......AND...that the current status of the consumer base is not receptive to increased spending at this time .....AND your plans to tax the middle class more makes the situation worse for buyers and sellers.


Indeed.....and when the fiscal abilities of a consumer base lag as they now do.....it hurts the sales of those products.
Your argument to further make the poor a welfare class and to tax the middle class even more simply goes against a logical supply and demand scenario.





Then why do you do you want to fuck the middle class ( your words ) with increased taxes through a supposed 'fair tax' plan based on taxing consumption?
And you call me the idiot

But you forget there are limits as to how much of a discount is there before the profit model fails ......AND...that the current status of the consumer base is not receptive to increased spending at this time .....AND your plans to tax the middle class more makes the situation worse for buyers and sellers.

But you claim the rich just keep getting richer due to too much profits !!!!,,,so therefore we need more competition.
Which reduces prices which gives people more money in their pocket to go buy shit which creates more jobs.
Why the fuck can you not understand this ??

Indeed.....and when the fiscal abilities of a consumer base lag as they now do.....it hurts the sales of those products.
Your argument to further make the poor a welfare class and to tax the middle class even more simply goes against a logical supply and demand scenario.

You are a moron...opec with limiting production has to do with the abilty to make you pay what they want..not what you you want to pay
The fucking lag is because of the economy.

Then why do you do you want to fuck the middle class ( your words ) with increased taxes through a supposed 'fair tax' plan based on taxing consumption?
And you call me the idiot

I said fuck the middle class...I want the poor to not have to struggle...the middle class comes next..they are not my priority...was the context of my post.

 

[Stone]

The reason car sales are down you fucking moron is not because the demand has gone down...its the economy causing such...my fucking gawd.
Just like in 2009 when they about collapsed.....its because people couldn't afford them not because they no longer wanted them.....and again..jesus fucking Christ.
Stop trying to post like a college educated dip shit and just use some common sense first...then apply your college knowledge if it applies....your god damn degree does not have precedence over common sense !!!!
Now go cut your fucking nuts !!:tooth

And I never said for anyone to open another car plant !!!!!
But anything you post I will shove down your fucking throat :eek

The reason car sales are down you fucking moron is not because the demand has gone down...its the economy causing such

You are using the wrong context of 'demand'.
Demand in a supply vs demand scenario isn't 'want' it's the actual buy strength.


Dumbass

 

[The Man]

Not with a tax plan based on consumption, you aren't



It's income regressive because your plan as posted in this forum, is based on consumption, not income.
Even your Wiki link pointed that out.....and I pointed that out to you.

You fucking moron..i stated early in the thread the lower brackets would get checks to offset what they paid in.
I have pointed this out more than once...If you want to show you are ignorant by not understanding what you read then be my guest.

 

[The Man]

You are using the wrong context of 'demand'.
Demand in a supply vs demand scenario isn't 'want' it's the actual buy strength.


Dumbass

You are a fucking moron..sales are down because of price...bring down the price and sales will go up.
The demand is already there...as said we just didnt wake up and no longer have demand.
We have no "buy strength" because lack of jobs....needle head.
When we have a high unemployment pool...people are willing to work for less..there goes your middle class..there goes new car sales
Stop thinking black and white with that shit you were taught in college stone.
Just makes you look like an educated fool