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IntruderLS1

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Excellent questions Scott. Let's take them one at a time.

1. How will they control the prices?
They don't have to control the prices when the oil is basically free.

2. How are they going to justify selling to America when China is offering them more money per barrel?
They don't have to justify oil prices when American and UK oil companies are guaranteed a percentage of the oil for the next 30 years.

3. Do you think they could get away with that?
They already have.

You know, I've had this conversation a thousand times, and this is the 1st time anybody has actually said something that made sense. Normally I just get a chant that repeats "Bush lied. Casey Died. No Blood for oil!!!"

I haven't read the benchmarks we set for Iraq, so it is news to me that they are PSA's. If that's true, then I'm not sure why it isn't more widely known. If the anti-war / anti-Bush group really wanted to have some weight to their arguments, this would be the road to travel. Fully half the reason I dislike 'your' group ( :) ) is because of the ignorance that I hear flowing out of it so often.

I have no response off the top of my head to your accusations, so I won't try to make something up without looking further into it.

Good job though. ... For now. ;)
 
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IntruderLS1

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Are you sure about what you said Tim? I know why I haven't heard of PSA's being benchmarks now. They aren't benchmarks. ...

BENCHMARKS IN IRAQ

-Constitutional review X
-De-Ba'athification laws X
-Distribution of oil revenues X
-Independent electoral commission X
-Disarming of militias X
-Training of three key Iraqi army brigades X
-Providing Iraqi commanders with authority to pursue US troop "surge" without political interference X
-Even handed law enforcement by Iraqi forces X
-Reduce sectarian violence X
-Establish joint US-Iraqi security stations in Baghdad X
-Increase number of Iraqi security forces capable of operating independently X -Protect rights of minority political parties X
-Allocation of $10bn in Iraqi reconstruction X
-Ensure political authorities are not undermining security forces X
-Enacting and implementing legislation on procedures to form semi-autonomous regions X
-Enacting and implementing legislation addressing amnesty Mixed Mixed Ensure that the Baghdad security plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of their political affiliation X
-Establishing supporting political, media, economic and services committees in Baghdad in support of the security plan X
Source: White House interim report</I>
 

IntruderLS1

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I don't really want to watch your videos until you clarify for me the point you were making about our benchmarks being oil sharing benchmarks.

Thinking about it even as I write this though: A common complaint I hear is that we're spending far too much money on Iraq. Even with all these oil profits you're talking about, how big a difference is there between the cost of liberation / rebuilding vs. oil profit?
 

All Else Failed

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Are you sure about what you said Tim? I know why I haven't heard of PSA's being benchmarks now. They aren't benchmarks. ...

BENCHMARKS IN IRAQ

-Constitutional review X
-De-Ba'athification laws X
-Distribution of oil revenues X
-Independent electoral commission X
-Disarming of militias X
-Training of three key Iraqi army brigades X
-Providing Iraqi commanders with authority to pursue US troop "surge" without political interference X
-Even handed law enforcement by Iraqi forces X
-Reduce sectarian violence X
-Establish joint US-Iraqi security stations in Baghdad X
-Increase number of Iraqi security forces capable of operating independently X -Protect rights of minority political parties X
-Allocation of $10bn in Iraqi reconstruction X
-Ensure political authorities are not undermining security forces X
-Enacting and implementing legislation on procedures to form semi-autonomous regions X
-Enacting and implementing legislation addressing amnesty Mixed Mixed Ensure that the Baghdad security plan will not provide a safe haven for any outlaws, regardless of their political affiliation X
-Establishing supporting political, media, economic and services committees in Baghdad in support of the security plan X
Source: White House interim report</I>

-Killing thousands of innocent people.






;)
 

Tim

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I don't really want to watch your videos until you clarify for me the point you were making about our benchmarks being oil sharing benchmarks.

Thinking about it even as I write this though: A common complaint I hear is that we're spending far too much money on Iraq. Even with all these oil profits you're talking about, how big a difference is there between the cost of liberation / rebuilding vs. oil profit?

The money being made on the oil sharing agreements doesn't come back to the American people. It's pure profit for the big oil companies, hundreds of billions of dollars. So one has to ask the question, Why is the administration even worried whether the production sharing agreements, aka oil sharing laws are passed? Why did Cheney feel it was necessary to fly out to Iraq and pressure the Iraqi government to pass these laws?
 

Tim

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Maybe this article will help clear things up for you. I just found it and it lays out the details much better than I have been doing.

How will Iraq share the oil? The Christian Science Monitor

The PSA's are buried into the distribution of oil wealth benchmark. The distribution of oil wealth will be determined by the oil sharing law which includes the PSA's... does that make more sense to you or did I lose you someplace else? I thought my line of facts were clear, but I know what I am trying to say... it just might not make it on paper as clear as it is in my head.
 

Dodge_Sniper

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I think America (American youth) needs a wake up call. This aint no game, this shit is for keeps! They dont feel like there is anything to fight for.......I would love to have volunteers like myself and donnie. and a few others I seen on this site. But they arent there like they should be. Let these people see the conditions over there. let them experience something other than the average American suburban life so we as Americans can exhibit the character and represent our culture that has made us the envy of the world, not the scourge as we are seen now. We dont have our own back and its killing us! Everyone wants to pander to something. We need to display conviction and stand up for what is right. I dont care who u are but Killing indiscriminately (400 on a monday with a detonation sequential car bombs and thousands of Americans with a plane (there is no difference)) Is not acceptable!

I'm sorry, but that's a fucked up comment. How the hell do you justify saying our youth needs a wake up call? I DO know that we have things to fight for, and I don't think we have the right to force people to fight. Because if we do that, we'll have hunderds, even thousands of soldiers that are not willing or too scared to fight, and we'll lose the war in an instant.

You think a draft is a great idea? Ok then, but when I don't wanna go to some war and end up dead at the age of 20 because of our government.

That was one of the most ignorant comments I've read, we need a wake up call. HA! Throwing our youth into a war for a wake up call? Ok then, and when we come back in pine boxes, what do you call that? I don't call that a wake up call. You want a wake up call, just send us to boot camp, not war.
 

JuJu

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America did wake up as shown in the last national election in '06.
We now know this administration has been lyin' for years.
This war is not about terrorism, this 'war' is about corporate profits for the allies of bush.
And anyone who wants to get in on the profits should put in their resume with Blackwater.
 

IntruderLS1

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Maybe this article will help clear things up for you. I just found it and it lays out the details much better than I have been doing.

How will Iraq share the oil? The Christian Science Monitor

The PSA's are buried into the distribution of oil wealth benchmark. The distribution of oil wealth will be determined by the oil sharing law which includes the PSA's... does that make more sense to you or did I lose you someplace else? I thought my line of facts were clear, but I know what I am trying to say... it just might not make it on paper as clear as it is in my head.


Okay, I've gone through the story, and while I know now what you are talking about and why, I believe the foundation of this theory has a prerequisite of belief in the worst of American intentions.

Tim's Article said:
While we can't confirm it, there are enough reports out there that appear to indicate that undue, unfair preference and the influence of our oil companies are part of the Iraqi hydrocarbon law, and if that is true, that is not correct," says Rep. Joe Sestak (D) of Pennsylvania, a former admiral and defense adviser to the Clinton administration.

People are looking VERY closely at this. People all over the world and here at home WANT for there to be a connection, and if there was one, I believe it would be found.

Tim's Article said:
Fueling new resistance to the oil benchmark are reports that the draft law in fact says little about sharing oil revenues among Iraqi groups and a lot about setting up a framework for investment that may be disadvantageous to Iraqis over the long term. On the flip side: Iraq's oil industry badly needs new investment, and oil companies are reluctant to go into Iraq without a legal framework that ensures that the contracts they sign will be respected by future Iraqi governments.

If Iraq is to stand on her own two feet, she needs to use her natural resources to do it. Oil is the key to her success, and as such, development of that infrastructure is paramount to everything we all want to see. A stable country, and U.S. soldiers home with their families. For this to become a reality, that legal framework must come first. This article makes reference to the fact repeatedly. I'd have to quote almost the entire thing to encompass all it says on the subject.

Tim's Article said:
"The Iraqi government remains in a dangerous stalemate: No oil law," Senate majority leader Harry Reid said during a debate on war policy on Wednesday.

While I don't read what you read into the above, if you are going to look at it from an evil Republican or evil Bush POV, then why is Harry Reid, the Democratic Senate Majority Leader talking about it like this??

Tim's Article said:
In New York, oil industry analyst Fadel Gheit of Oppenheimer & Co. Inc. has reviewed both the official Arabic version of the draft law and the unofficial English translation and says they are ambiguous and seem to be written in haste.
"The law did not strike me as something that was explicitly designed to favor American companies, although I'm not ruling that out," he says.

He mentions that it does raise an eyebrow that international companies are mentioned in the law, but that there is no requirement that they be American companies. In fact, my understanding of the reality of their oil history is that primary contracts will likely go to Russia. Actually, I'm almost sure of it now that I'm thinking about it.

Tim's Article said:
With the world's second-largest oil reserves after Saudi Arabia, Iraq is the top prize in the international oil business. Iraq needs new foreign investment to help modernize its oil industry, which has been closed to new technology for the past 25 years, says Mr. Gheit.
But even with a new draft oil law, international oil companies won't be eager to send engineers into a nation in turmoil. "It's very difficult for oil companies to recruit people willing to work in the Iraqi oil fields. It's mayhem," he says.
"If the idea of the law is to expedite getting international oil [firms] to ... set up shop and invest money, they're mistaken," Gheit adds. "I doubt very much that any oil company will be willing to send geologists, engineers to be shot at, kidnapped, or beheaded."

Private industry can accomplish in 5 years what it would take local Iraqis 20. If it takes them 20 years to get their economy's infrastructure running, that is 20 years of doubt, violence, and instability. 20 more years of U.S. forces keeping the peace. Nobody wants that. Not us. Not them. As such, I suppose it is not a stretch to say we stand to gain from the passing of this legislation. I don't think that implies ciminality on our part however.

The Iraqis need to strike a balance between getting things done quickly, and getting things done in the best way for them in the long run.

As an olive leaf, I will say this; I can see it being likely that the Iraqi government will be more likely to take the long, violent road if they think our commitment is open ended. If we're going to be their keeping the peace, then that takes the pressure off of them to get it done quickly.

I don't think this means we should start pulling out now, but I do see it as becoming increasingly important for them to make tangible gains politically. If we were to begin pulling troops today, I can't think of a single reason it would ad the the stability in the region. If the bad guys started pulling forces out of the country, and sent word about it on the news, what would the effect be here in America? ... The answer seems clear to me.
 

UncleBacon

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I would like to see all the tree hugging no war hippies go over there with arms wide open and give them hugs because they think that will solve problems.....no it wont...you know what will happen...you will get be-headed by a dull blade....this liberal tree hugging nonsense needs to stop
 

All Else Failed

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I would like to see all the tree hugging no war hippies go over there with arms wide open and give them hugs because they think that will solve problems.....no it wont...you know what will happen...you will get be-headed by a dull blade....this liberal tree hugging nonsense needs to stop
Yeah, because all people that are anti-war are hippies, and environmentalists. Grow up.
 
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