Draft

[The_Rooks_Revenge]

I have seen many threads turn to the discussion of a draft....but no threads labeled "draft". So what do you think folks?

My opinion, Americans are soft! More people were killed in the Towers than Pearl harbor. The difference...Americas reaction. 4 years at war in WWII. The battleon the island of Iwo Jima lasted 36 days and took over 6000 american Marines and Corpsman. Twice as many of the total service members taken in the 4 years of this war. We cannot except people killing us in our yard and if some "voluntolds" is what it takes to get the message across that we will ot stand for it than thats what we need to do.

 

[GraceAbounds]

My opinion, Americans are soft! More people were killed in the Towers than Pearl harbor. The difference...Americas reaction. 4 years at war in WWII. The battleon the island of Iwo Jima lasted 36 days and took over 6000 american Marines and Corpsman. Twice as many of the total service members taken in the 4 years of this war. We cannot except people killing us in our yard and if some "voluntolds" is what it takes to get the message across that we will ot stand for it than thats what we need to do.

Agree'd and rep'd.

I however hope a draft is not what it will come to. I'd rather have volunteers that WANT to fight for their country vs. people that don't believe in what they are doing out there.

 

[The_Rooks_Revenge]

I think America (American youth) needs a wake up call. This aint no game, this shit is for keeps! They dont feel like there is anything to fight for.......I would love to have volunteers like myself and donnie. and a few others I seen on this site. But they arent there like they should be. Let these people see the conditions over there. let them experience something other than the average American suburban life so we as Americans can exhibit the character and represent our culture that has made us the envy of the world, not the scourge as we are seen now. We dont have our own back and its killing us! Everyone wants to pander to something. We need to display conviction and stand up for what is right. I dont care who u are but Killing indiscriminately (400 on a monday with a detonation sequential car bombs and thousands of Americans with a plane (there is no difference)) Is not acceptable!

 

[Tim]

The attacking of Pearl harbor was carried out by another country. And the attack happened while there was all out war going on in other parts of the world. Our country was already following the developments of the war in Europe and we were sitting on the edge of our seats, wondering if we were going to be dragged into the war. That's what makes the attack of Pearl harbor so much different from 9/11. We weren't attacked by another nation. We didn't have a country to go after. It was a man and his organization. I believe we did the right thing in going after the Taliban in Afganistan. It was something that needed to be done and we did it well. We tore them down hard and fast. But we lost focus and our government removed the needed manpower and resources to complete the job. Here we are 6 long years later and Bin Laden is still alive, the Taliban has regrouped and amassed strength and numbers. They are able to regroup and plan more attacks on us. How is this possible? Why aren't they dead or on the run?

As far as the majority of American's signing up to go to war in Iraq? I don't see that happening anytime soon. People are a lot more educated on todays events, it's very easy to see through all the rhetoric and talking points on terrorism and safety here at home. Even the Young Republican's aren't willing to sign up...

YouTube - Young Republican Chickenhawks

 

[Kat]

I dont agree with the draft. I will admit I dont understand everything involved or the politics or whatever you want to cal it. But being a "free" country....wouldnt starting up the draft again be in a way taking away part of that freedom...I know people must fight to keep our country safe...people fight to uphold our freedoms...but to draft and make people fight when they dont want to....think of the countless families that would be ripped apart because of a draft...the countless families who would be angry at the government for forcefully ripped apart. Maybe we dont have enough soldiers right now...as I said im not sure whats going on sometimes...but to force people to fight for a cause they may not believe in...

I cant imagine if the draft started up and my bf was drafted...i cant imagine what i would do or how I would feel...but to have him ripped outta our lives...mine and my daughters...and if he died while fighting...i just dont know

Its one thing to want to be a soldier...to believe in the cause and want to make a living in any branch of military...I hold so much respect for our soldiers...but not everyone is meant to be one

 

[The_Rooks_Revenge]

The attacking of Pearl harbor was carried out by another country. And the attack happened while there was all out war going on in other parts of the world. Our country was already following the developments of the war in Europe and we were sitting on the edge of our seats, wondering if we were going to be dragged into the war. That's what makes the attack of Pearl harbor so much different from 9/11. We weren't attacked by another nation. We didn't have a country to go after. It was a man and his organization. I believe we did the right thing in going after the Taliban in Afganistan. It was something that needed to be done and we did it well. We tore them down hard and fast. But we lost focus and our government removed the needed manpower and resources to complete the job. Here we are 6 long years later and Bin Laden is still alive, the Taliban has regrouped and amassed strength and numbers. They are able to regroup and plan more attacks on us. How is this possible? Why aren't they dead or on the run?

As far as the majority of American's signing up to go to war in Iraq? I don't see that happening anytime soon. People are a lot more educated on todays events, it's very easy to see through all the rhetoric and talking points on terrorism and safety here at home. Even the Young Republican's aren't willing to sign up...

YouTube - Young Republican Chickenhawks

Exactly the difference. It was not a nation that attacked us but an ideology. That is hard to fight, and has never been done. The foe is elusive and educated.

And what is worse? If we are expecting it or we arent? That point is moot right now.

And even though we attacked hard and fast the taliban still exists and thrives....should we stop following and destroying? No we shouldnt. We had to take a country to beat down a HUGE terror (ideology) infastructure. We did and we have to pay a price to help them on their feet. We have done that and need to move on. If they collapse it is no longer our fault.

I think to say that Bin Laden is alive because we havent seen a body is almost laughably funny. But I agree it is in our best interest to assume he is. And the sad truth of it is that the tali ban was going to live anyway. But just cause they live doesnt mean that we should turn tail and run. You are right about our follies in strategy but we should not just say " oh well we screwed this one, let just quit"

 

[The_Rooks_Revenge]

I tried to answer your points in succession. Not sure it came out the exact way i wanted, this type of thing is always better with words....lol but I missed one. there has been all out war going on in this world since man has walked the earth. Hindsight is amazing. To look back and compare this war to the great war is a mistake for the same point you made in your post. This was not a solid enemy that attacked. they dont wear uniforms. This is an idealogical war. To lose is death for our way of life

 

[The_Rooks_Revenge]

I dont agree with the draft. I will admit I dont understand everything involved or the politics or whatever you want to cal it. But being a "free" country....wouldnt starting up the draft again be in a way taking away part of that freedom...I know people must fight to keep our country safe...people fight to uphold our freedoms...but to draft and make people fight when they dont want to....think of the countless families that would be ripped apart because of a draft...the countless families who would be angry at the government for forcefully ripped apart. Maybe we dont have enough soldiers right now...as I said im not sure whats going on sometimes...but to force people to fight for a cause they may not believe in...

I cant imagine if the draft started up and my bf was drafted...i cant imagine what i would do or how I would feel...but to have him ripped outta our lives...mine and my daughters...and if he died while fighting...i just dont know

Its one thing to want to be a soldier...to believe in the cause and want to make a living in any branch of military...I hold so much respect for our soldiers...but not everyone is meant to be one

I signed up in 1998, I didnt sign up to fight in Iraq. I filled my draft card out the day I got it (it was bout a year and a half b4 I joined). If called I would go.

 

[Kat]

yes but there is a difference in being recruited and being drafted...the draft hasnt come back yet and hopefully imo wont...leave it up to people who actually want to fight...not people who are forced to fight

 

[GraceAbounds]

I tried to answer your points in succession. Not sure it came out the exact way i wanted, this type of thing is always better with words....lol but I missed one. there has been all out war going on in this world since man has walked the earth. Hindsight is amazing. To look back and compare this war to the great war is a mistake for the same point you made in your post. This was not a solid enemy that attacked. they dont wear uniforms. This is an idealogical war. To lose is death for our way of life

Bingo.

 

[Tim]

Exactly the difference. It was not a nation that attacked us but an ideology. That is hard to fight, and has never been done. The foe is elusive and educated.

And what is worse? If we are expecting it or we arent? That point is moot right now.

And even though we attacked hard and fast the taliban still exists and thrives....should we stop following and destroying? No we shouldnt. We had to take a country to beat down a HUGE terror (ideology) infastructure. We did and we have to pay a price to help them on their feet. We have done that and need to move on. If they collapse it is no longer our fault.

I think to say that Bin Laden is alive because we havent seen a body is almost laughably funny. But I agree it is in our best interest to assume he is. And the sad truth of it is that the tali ban was going to live anyway. But just cause they live doesnt mean that we should turn tail and run. You are right about our follies in strategy but we should not just say " oh well we screwed this one, let just quit"

Your point of having to take down a country is flawed when talking about terrorism. Going to war based on the attacks of 9/11 is 100% justifiable in my view. I believe we did the right thing in going after Bin Laden. But, and this is a big BUT... the war in Iraq has nothing, and I repeat, NOTHING to do with 9/11 and the attacks we suffered that day.
First the President talked about Saddam and WMD's
then he said that Saddam needed to be removed for the sake of his people,
then it was about liberating the nation,
then it was about stabilizing the government,
then it was containing the sectarian violence,
then it was about preventing civil war,
then it was about creating safe zones and killing Al Qaueda operatives.
Now it's about stopping them there so they don't follow us home.... :dunno

Al Qaueda was never a problem in Iraq before we invaded, that is a fact. Now they are... so the argument that we need to stop them their so they don't follow us home is not a valid one. Our war on terror has nothing to do with Iraq and the majority of American people still think it is, that's sad.

As far as turning tail and running... I never suggested that plan of action. I strongly support destroying the Taliban and Al Qaueda networks. I believe that should be our number 1 goal.

 

[Tim]

I tried to answer your points in succession. Not sure it came out the exact way i wanted, this type of thing is always better with words....lol but I missed one. there has been all out war going on in this world since man has walked the earth. Hindsight is amazing. To look back and compare this war to the great war is a mistake for the same point you made in your post. This was not a solid enemy that attacked. they dont wear uniforms. This is an idealogical war. To lose is death for our way of life

I'm not comparing the two wars. I'm comparing the differences in the American support for this war.

Do you honestly believe that they can win? Are they going to invade our homeland? Are they going to change our belief structure? They can NEVER change us or who we are. The most they can hope to achieve is disrupting our daily lives with attacks that are small and inconsequential. 9/11 was a terrible day, but did they really hurt who we are? If anything, they brought us together and made us stronger that day. Bin Laden wanted war in the middle east, he is on record for saying that, and that's what we gave him... Hmmm :dunno
Their greatest weapon is fear, and we allow them to control that... it is this fear that the government is using for their gain and that is doing more harm to this country than their little attacks ever could.
Controlling our borders and knowing who is coming in and out of our country will do more to protect us than any war in the middle east. Having a strong intelligence community and a quick and agile military than can react quickly to foreign threats is the way we should be going.

 

[JuJu]

I'm not comparing the two wars. I'm comparing the differences in the American support for this war.

Do you honestly believe that they can win? Are they going to invade our homeland? Are they going to change our belief structure? They can NEVER change us or who we are. The most they can hope to achieve is disrupting our daily lives with attacks that are small and inconsequential. 9/11 was a terrible day, but did they really hurt who we are? If anything, they brought us together and made us stronger that day. Bin Laden wanted war in the middle east, he is on record for saying that, and that's what we gave him... Hmmm :dunno
Their greatest weapon is fear, and we allow them to control that... it is this fear that the government is using for their gain and that is doing more harm to this country than their little attacks ever could.
Controlling our borders and knowing who is coming in and out of our country will do more to protect us than any war in the middle east. Having a strong intelligence community and a quick and agile military than can react quickly to foreign threats is the way we should be going.

Have I mentioned that this site needs an applause smiley?

Great synopsis, Mr Tim

 

[GraceAbounds]

Do you honestly believe that they can win?

Yes, and I believe they already are. We have Americans that are fighting the terrorists war for them, feeling sorry for them, etc., Americans that have the words 'tolerant' and 'accepting' mixed up.

Are they going to invade our homeland?

Their ideology already has. It is evident in American opinions/postings across the Internet.

Are they going to change our belief structure?

It already has started to erode certain belief structures. Many Americans these days remind me of Jane Fonda and her stunts pulled in the Vietnam war. Or idealistic young uns that just are not old enough to know better.

They can NEVER change us or who we are. The most they can hope to achieve is disrupting our daily lives with attacks that are small and inconsequential. 9/11 was a terrible day, but did they really hurt who we are?

Yes, it hurt me and changed me.

Bin Laden wanted war in the middle east, he is on record for saying that, and that's what we gave him... Hmmm :dunno

ROFL. There was war in the middle east looooooooooooooong before 9/11.

Their greatest weapon is fear, and we allow them to control that... it is this fear that the government is using for their gain and that is doing more harm to this country than their little attacks ever could.

Once again, I'm not afraid and I doubt our government is either. If people are scared that is a personal thing that they need to examine.

Controlling our borders and knowing who is coming in and out of our country will do more to protect us than any war in the middle east.

Securing our borders is something we should be doing, yes. But this is another subject.

Having a strong intelligence community and a quick and agile military than can react quickly to foreign threats is the way we should be going.

Maybe we should put the draft into affect then, eh?

 

[Peter Parka]

I disagree with the draft completely and I see no need for it. I totally disagree with the war against Iraq and believe it is wrong to make people risk their lives in a war they are opposed to and poses no risk to our own country.

 

[Tim]

Have I mentioned that this site needs an applause smiley?

Great synopsis, Mr Tim

Is this the one you are looking for? :clap

I just added it for you.

 

[dt3]

Is this the one you are looking for? :clap

I just added it for you.

Can I get one that says "STFU Liberal!"???

:jkYou know I love ya in a completely hetero way Tim

 

[JuJu]

Is this the one you are looking for? :clap

I just added it for you.

:clap
Thank you, Sir!




Great admin here, gotta love this place.

 

[Tim]

Do you honestly believe that they can win?

Yes, and I believe they already are. We have Americans that are fighting the terrorists war for them, feeling sorry for them, etc., Americans that have the words 'tolerant' and 'accepting' mixed up.

We have Americans that are fighting it for them? You must be kidding me... No really, you must be fucking kidding me. Because every American isn't drinking the Republican kool-aide means that we are supporting the Terrorists. Wouldn't that be the same as saying if I don't support the death penalty and speak out against it, I'm supporting the murderers?

Are they going to invade our homeland?

Their ideology already has. It is evident in American opinions/postings across the Internet.

Yes, you are right, they are invading right now and I am posting for them this very minute... Don't be such a drama queen. They are not invading us we are not under attack, we aren't all going to be required to wear turbans anytime soon.

Are they going to change our belief structure?

It already has started to erode certain belief structures. Many Americans these days remind me of Jane Fonda and her stunts pulled in the Vietnam war. Or idealistic young uns that just are not old enough to know better.

If you are that weak that 9/11 was enough to change your belief system, then 9/11 wasn't your problem, you should look at your belief system and why it let you down

They can NEVER change us or who we are. The most they can hope to achieve is disrupting our daily lives with attacks that are small and inconsequential. 9/11 was a terrible day, but did they really hurt who we are?

Yes, it hurt me and changed me.

Hurt who we are as a nation, not you as an individual... It's amazing that 9/11 hurt you so much yet the 700,000 civilians (men women and children) that have died in Iraq hasn't caused you one sleepless night. Just keep supporting the war in Iraq, keep your Republican blinders on, keep drinking your kool-aide and read your bible, because I'm sure Jesus would be on the front lines with gun in his hands.

Bin Laden wanted war in the middle east, he is on record for saying that, and that's what we gave him... Hmmm :dunno

ROFL. There was war in the middle east looooooooooooooong before 9/11.

You're right, but there wasn't 160,000 American troops with bulls eyes painted on their backs walking around.

Their greatest weapon is fear, and we allow them to control that... it is this fear that the government is using for their gain and that is doing more harm to this country than their little attacks ever could.

Once again, I'm not afraid and I doubt our government is either. If people are scared that is a personal thing that they need to examine.

You don't believe that the President saying that we must succeed over there or they will follow us home, isn't putting fear into the American people? I could pull dozens of examples of fear mongering from this administration.

Controlling our borders and knowing who is coming in and out of our country will do more to protect us than any war in the middle east.

Securing our borders is something we should be doing, yes. But this is another subject.

No, this is this subject. We are over there so they don't follow us home, right? Well, since their navy is still under construction, I guess they would be coming here via business class. Tighten security and maybe this time we wouldn't allow dozens of Saudi's, I mean Iraqis, I mean terrorists... into this country who are on the FBI watch list.

Having a strong intelligence community and a quick and agile military than can react quickly to foreign threats is the way we should be going.

Maybe we should put the draft into affect then, eh?

A quick and agile military that isn't tied up in a bullshit war... we wouldn't need a large military via a draft to accomplish that. Our military is more than capable and equipped to handle any such mission.

 

[All Else Failed]

YouTube - Howard Zinn: "On Human Nature and Aggression."