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Francis

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The military falls under the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). It's a completely different set of laws, since the military is so very different from the civilian population. Members of the military are subject to the UCMJ whether stateside or overseas. This doesn't release them from responsibility to follow local law. Rather, they are bound by both sets of laws.

That makes sense as it is the same here and regulated by our Federal Government ( CFCC ).

There are lots of rules/laws/regulations that are far more stringent than you'll ever see in civilian America. Being late for work is a federal crime, for instance.

Again I expected.. Same here as being late for work in the military could get you on the AWOL list.

Not only is gay marriage illegal, so is common-law marriage. A military chaplain (or ship captain, I assume) would not be allowed to perform a particular rite if it would violate the UCMJ.

This would be the only difference between our two countries. We now permit gay marriage in the military as well as common-law marriage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation_and_the_Canadian_military

Chaplains also perform rites of religions other than their own (marriage, christenings, funerals, etc) if a chaplain representing that religion is not available.

Once again, pretty much the same..

http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/cfcb-bsafc/pub/iccmch-gciamc-eng.asp
 
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robdawg1

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I like that ...perhaps throw in a chance to contest as well before being signed.

Is that how Obama care slip in?


Ok..thats how doma got in right?
Which will eventually get repealed IMO...not because they didnt have authority to create the act...but will claim its biased.

But you sound as if you are willing to allow laws that are unconstitutional....such as ss...and as going as far to call it a benefit....you cant be sitting on the fence there acc.

But now I must ask this.
If doma stated that marriage is to include same sex couples..it would still be unconstitutional correct?
As it does not address a provision in the constitution.....so they would be back where they started from.
Nothing gained or lost.

I think ACC has made that statement before, that it isnt a matter of whether it's right or wrong, or which side it is for, if it doesnt support the constitution via a specific provision he is against the feds making a law about it.
 

robdawg1

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I should also add that I am SHOCKED that the torture argument has made it to yet another COMPLETELY UNRELATED thread!
 

The Man

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I think ACC has made that statement before, that it isnt a matter of whether it's right or wrong, or which side it is for, if it doesnt support the constitution via a specific provision he is against the feds making a law about it.

Thats just it..I dont mind the epa etc.
To much restriction could be a bad thing.
But...IMO they are to involved in social affairs.
 

The Man

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I should also add that I am SHOCKED that the torture argument has made it to yet another COMPLETELY UNRELATED thread!

Sad isnt it.
Be careful using that T word...as someone searches that term very regular and will pop in.
I was not joking when I stated in the beginning the T word was searched regularly by a select member and will carry on for months with the mention of it....I suspect a near drowning at child hood or a bad case of heavy bullying as a child....perhaps roots to I r a q {note the spaces in between the letters to beat the searches} as similar can occur with mention to I r a q as well.
 

robdawg1

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Thats just it..I dont mind the epa etc.
To much restriction could be a bad thing.
But...IMO they are to involved in social affairs.

ACC doesnt mind the epa or any other type of "good laws" he is just arguing that the laws sould be made by the states instead of the federal government as laye dout in the constitution
 

Stone

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I should also add that I am SHOCKED that the torture argument has made it to yet another COMPLETELY UNRELATED thread!

That's unfortunate you were upset.
TM has posted he'll stop,

.............expect no further replies from me on this matter......................

so maybe his ire over being outed as a chickenhawk torturer has subsided.

I hope so, I'm running out of space for all the new red reps :D
 

Stone

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Sad isnt it.
Be careful using that T word...as someone searches that term very regular and will pop in.
I was not joking when I stated in the beginning the T word was searched regularly by a select member and will carry on for months with the mention of it....I suspect a near drowning at child hood or a bad case of heavy bullying as a child....perhaps roots to I r a q {note the spaces in between the letters to beat the searches} as similar can occur with mention to I r a q as well.



Just couldn't leave it alone could you :D
Just like the forum you were kicked out of ;)
 

Accountable

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I like that ...perhaps throw in a chance to contest as well before being signed.
Exactly.

Is that how Obama care slip in?
Without a doubt. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/11pdf/11-393c3a2.pdf The court overturned the individual mandate as an overreach of Congressional powers as the law was passed, then said they could mandate if they called it a tax ... but they conveniently ignored the fact that the simple majority vote to pass the bill did not have sufficient numbers to pass as a tax, which requires a supermajority vote.
SCOTUS called it constitutional anyway.


Ok..thats how doma got in right?
Right. The president signed it hoping that nobody would fight it. Hell, if I remember right, President GW Bush acknowledged that parts of the Patriot Act were unconstitutional even as he signed the Goddamn thing. (couldn't find a cite, though)

But you sound as if you are willing to allow laws that are unconstitutional....such as ss...and as going as far to call it a benefit....you cant be sitting on the fence there acc.
Absolutely not, like Rob pointed out. An unconstitutional law shouldn't be allowed to stand just because it does good, because the harm of violating the Rule of Law is much greater in the long run than any short-term benefit.

But now I must ask this.
If doma stated that marriage is to include same sex couples..it would still be unconstitutional correct?
As it does not address a provision in the constitution.....so they would be back where they started from.
Nothing gained or lost.
Right. It would be back to state law, as it must be.
 

Accountable

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Thats just it..I dont mind the epa etc.
To much restriction could be a bad thing.
But...IMO they are to involved in social affairs.
ACC doesnt mind the epa or any other type of "good laws" he is just arguing that the laws sould be made by the states instead of the federal government as laye dout in the constitution
The EPA is pretty firmly supported by the Interstate Commerce clause, since pollutants drift across state lines and contaminate water used by everyone, not just the polluter; and polluting vehicles and machinery are bought, sold, and transported interstate.

But Rob nailed it. Anything that doesn't strictly comply with the federal constitution can still be taken up by the states. If someone disagreed, they could fight it in state courts a lot easier than federal courts, and they still have the option to move out of the state without moving out of the country. Plus, with each state running their own show, they can compare programs and find ways to improve, tailored to that specific area. Changes can be made more quickly and cheaply than a huge national program could do. National programs can only be cheaper, never better.
 

Minor Axis

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The EPA is pretty firmly supported by the Interstate Commerce clause, since pollutants drift across state lines and contaminate water used by everyone, not just the polluter; and polluting vehicles and machinery are bought, sold, and transported interstate.

But Rob nailed it. Anything that doesn't strictly comply with the federal constitution can still be taken up by the states. If someone disagreed, they could fight it in state courts a lot easier than federal courts, and they still have the option to move out of the state without moving out of the country. Plus, with each state running their own show, they can compare programs and find ways to improve, tailored to that specific area. Changes can be made more quickly and cheaply than a huge national program could do. National programs can only be cheaper, never better.

Huh? That is not a black and white situation. I say the problem is that some States can't support their own programs, and get help from the Federal government through the national pool of tax dollars. Very worthy causes like education, medical, and disaster assistance. If this is the case, if it is a good program, I don't mind the Federal government involved, which facilitates rich States subsidizing poor states. There are also issues of standardization, a common standard. For some reason you think it is a given that States always handle governance better than on the Federal level.
 

Accountable

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Your opinion. That is not a black and white situation. I say the problem is that some States can't support their own programs, and get help from the Federal government through the national pool of tax dollars. Very worthy causes like education, medical, and disaster assistance. If this is the case, if it is a good program, I don't mind the Federal government involved, which facilitates rich States subsidizing poor states. There are also issues of standardization, a common standard. No, you won't agree with me, but this is my opinion. :)
Article 1, Section 8, opening paragraph:
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States;
(my emphasis)
In my opinion (backed up by basic reading skills ;)) You are right about the funding. That's the real purpose of the General Welfare clause, though most nationalists think that congress can make any law they want and label it General Welfare ... but I digress.

I don't mind the federal funding. Even if I did, it is clearly constitutional. I do mind - one hell of a lot - when Washington tries to create defacto unconstitutional federal law by attaching onerous conditions to that funding. It's one thing to say you must use this funding for your X program. It's something else to say the program must be run exactly our way or you don't get the money. That's overreach ..... in my opinion.

eta:
There are also issues of standardization, a common standard.
Such as?
 

Stone

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Thats just it..I dont mind the epa etc.
To much restriction could be a bad thing.
But...IMO they are to involved in social affairs.


I well remember one of your solutions that curtails EPA involvement in energy and addresses marriage:

What do we do?
Women need to quit many of these jobs...not the waitress or massage therapist but most others.

Now there isnt unemployment..but actually a shortage of workers...Now man goes up and tells them what he requires to work for them..rather than employer state what they will pay.

Man makes more money due to supply and demand rule
Much gas saved.
Young children can be raised by Mom not some daycare.
Day cares wont be needed as the women arent working.
Taxes go down as the govt pays a huge share of daycare.
This saved money can be used for gas.
Gas will be cheaper as there is less demand for it.

Summary..bring back 1960 when you could have s stay at home mom and man could support 6 kids with an average job.

Its the women doc...they need to stay home rather than burn all this gas and invade the mans workforce thus reducing his wages dramatically...with these increased wages gas wont seem so high..and remember the demand will be lower reducing prices as well
(linkage upon request ;) )



Summary..bring back 1960

Really? That's hitting the topic of marriage and the EPA all in one shot :D
 

Accountable

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DOMA is an abuse of federalismBy George F. Will, Published: March 20


nder the Constitution, the regulation and control of marital and family relationships are reserved to the States.


— U.S. Supreme Court,
Sherrer v. Sherrer (1948)


The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) is an exception to the rule that a law’s title is as uninformative about the law’s purpose as the titles of Marx Brothers movies (“Duck Soup,” “Horse Feathers,” “Animal Crackers”) are about those movies’ contents. DOMA’s purpose is precisely what its title says. Which is why many conservatives and liberals should be uneasy Wednesday when the Supreme Court hears arguments about its constitutionality.


Conservatives who supported DOMA should, after 17years’ reflection, want the act overturned because its purpose is constitutionally improper. Liberals who want the act struck down should be discomfited by the reason the court should give when doing this.


DOMA, which in 1996 passed the House 342 to 67 and the Senate 85 to 14, defines marriage for the purpose of federal law as a legal union between one man and one woman. Because approximately 1,100 federal laws pertain to marriage, DOMA’s defenders argue that Congress merely exercised its power to define a term used in many statutes. But before 1996, federal statutes functioned without this definition, which obviously was adopted for the “defense” of marriage against state policies involving a different definition. “Before DOMA,” an amicus brief submitted by a group of federalism scholars notes, “federal law took state law as it found it.”


The question now is whether DOMA is “necessary and proper” for the exercise of a constitutionally enumerated congressional power. There is no such power pertaining to marriage. This subject is a state responsibility, a tradition established and validated by what can be called constitutional silence: The 10th Amendment says, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”


The amicus brief takes no position on same-sex marriage as social policy. Rather, it addresses a question that should obviate the need to address whether DOMA violates the constitutional guarantee of equal protection of the laws. The threshold question is: Does the federal government have the power that DOMA’s preamble proclaims, the power “to define and protect the institution of marriage”?


DOMA’s obvious purpose is, as the scholars’ brief says, “to reject state governments’ policy judgments.” Its purpose is to endorse, and to some extent enforce, the traditional understanding of marriage. The scholars’ brief says:


“Congress may regulate in this area to the extent necessary to further its enumerated powers. But it may not simply reject the states’ policy judgments as if it had the same authority to make domestic-relations law as they do. That is the difference between a government with a general police power and a government of limited and enumerated powers.”


Ernest A. Young of the Duke Law School, the principal author of the federalism brief, says the operation of DOMA cannot help but burden states because “federal and state law are pervasively intertwined.” To understand the harm that could be done by an unlimited federal power to define the terms of domestic-relations law, Young recalls when a few states, venturing beyond the national consensus, began experimenting with no-fault divorce. Suppose, Young says, Congress passed a statute refusing recognition, for purposes of federal law, of any divorce where neither party made a showing of fault:


“The couple would continue to be treated as married for purposes of federal income tax, health care programs and veterans’ benefits. Imagine the chaos this would wreak in the administration of state programs, and the pressure it would impose on states not to experiment with divorce law.”


As the scholars’ brief says, DOMA “shatters two centuries of federal practice” by creating “a blanket federal marital status that exists independent of states’ family-status determinations.” Federalism, properly respected, enables diversity as an alternative to a congressionally imposed, continent-wide moral uniformity. Allowing Washington to impose such conformity would ratify unprecedented federal supremacy regarding domestic relations, a power without judicially administrable limits. By striking down DOMA — by refusing to defer to Congress’s usurpation of states’ powers — the court would defer to 50 state governments, including the 38 that today prohibit same-sex marriage.


Liberals praise diversity but generally urge courts to permissively construe the Constitution in order to validate federal power to impose continental uniformities. DOMA is such an imposition. Liberals may be rescued from it by jurisprudence true to conservative principles, properly understood.

A beautiful editorial. Mr Will shows the bipartisan hypocrisy of the DOMA discussion.
 

Alien Allen

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The question now is whether DOMA is “necessary and proper” for the exercise of a constitutionally enumerated congressional power. There is no such power pertaining to marriage. This subject is a state responsibility, a tradition established and validated by what can be called constitutional silence: The 10th Amendment says, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

too bad this is not how things work though. The feds have been on a power grab for 100 years so there is plenty of precedent to give wiggle room on most anything the feds want to control. Much of that as a result of the bastardization of the commerce clause. IMO
 

Accountable

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Dammit! I heard an audio cut on the radio coming home and can't find it online. During today's arguments one of the justices said something about standing (meaning this case might not even be a question for the SCOTUS) and something about gay marriage not being around for long enough for them to make a decision about it. That has ZERO to do with whether the case in question violates the constitution.
 

Alien Allen

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they are playing politics with the issue

they want to have it both ways where they make a decision but not really

if there was no standing then why did the idiots accept the case?

I blame most of this kind of crap on Roberts. I think he wants a legacy of being a fair and unbiased head of the court. When he anything but unbiased.

Screw the term limits on congress. We need to reform the SCOTUS.. I would cap their terms at 10 years max and rotate the head of the court every two years.
 

Accountable

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Dammit! I heard an audio cut on the radio coming home and can't find it online. During today's arguments one of the justices said something about standing (meaning this case might not even be a question for the SCOTUS) and something about gay marriage not being around for long enough for them to make a decision about it. That has ZERO to do with whether the case in question violates the constitution.
DOH! That's Prop 8.
 

Alien Allen

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The standing had to do with who was representing the proponents of Prop 8. Since the state backed out the question became if those who sued have standing. I am guessing they don't. In which case the SCOTUS can rule accordingly and the over turn of the law by the appellate court would stay in place and the law would be repealed.
 
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