Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotiation

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nova

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

I am far from being on your side. You are one of the people I just don't get. You have no problem with the millions that don't get the proper health care they need simply because it's not set forth in the constitution.

It sucks for sure but ultimately thats the way life is. Violating the principles of rule of law, for whatever reason, is a good way to ensure that ALL of our lives suck orders of magnitude more simply because its the invitation to tyranny and dictatorship.

Our constitution is the foundation of our great nation, it's not the be all end all. For if it was, there would be no amendments to it.

Which is exactly why, if you feel that health care should be a civil right guaranteed by the US gov't, then you should follow the process we have to amend the Constitution instead of conveniently ignoring it to get what you want.

I would personally fight such an amendment as it perverts and undermines the theories of rights that we've operated under for nearly 250 years but should it pass I would accept it as the law of the land.

I am fully aware what rights are but everyone has their own interpretations. How many debates have there been on human rights through the years? The debate is far from settled concerning the finer points.

What about the most basic human right there is, the right to life? Where does that fit into all of this? When someone is denied life saving treatment in the name of profit, isn't that taking his right to live away from him? I don't have the right to take your life, because it's your right to live. So if I have the power to save you and I don't because you don't have enough money to pay me, then I am guilty of taking your life. .

We are NOT the USSR. We operate under the theories of "negative" natural rights not "positive" natural rights because positive rights are another invitation to tyranny.

Our natural rights are only prohibitions of the actions of others against us, they do not compell anyone else to any specific action. The only rights that fall into that category are our enumerated civil rights that are designed to ensure a good relationship between the gov't and the people.

Lets do a thought excercise to examine why "positive" natural rights are inherently tyrannical. Lets say in your nation, where there is a positive natural right to health care, where one person is compelled to provde care to another simply to preserve their right to life.

What happens when all your doctors, nurses, paramedics, etc, just decide to quit practicing medicine? Do you threaten them with prison? Put them in prison? Threaten to kill them? Go through with it?

Logically that has to happen under the "positive rights" system because by refusing to practice medicine they are engaging in denying other people the rights to health care and life. In essence you have squashed the liberty rights of one whole group of people and virtually enslaved for the benefit of another.

You want to talk morals? That is morally wrong.
 
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retro

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

Tim, if you're an independent, then it's in name only... every single debate I've seen you in around here has been you defending the Democrats and talking about how "evil" the Republicans are. You give lip service to your claims that you don't like the Democrats either, but your words speak far louder than your claims.

Now, onto the subject at hand here for a minutes. Does anyone know the last time legislation this unpopular with the American people was passed? It was the Kansas-Nebraska Act

Kansas–Nebraska Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, does anyone know what happened as a result of the Kansas-Nebraska act? The Republican party was formed (it didn't exist until 1854) as a direct response to how unpopular this legislation was. They went from not existing to taking control of the House and Senate, and then the Presidency 6 years later. The formation of the Republican party, and subsequent election of Lincoln to the Presidency, was one of the final tipping points that led this nation into Civil War.

Now, we're not dealing with slavery right now, but the issue of governmental control over our daily lives is something every bit as significant.
 

Accountable

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

I am far from being on your side. You are one of the people I just don't get. You have no problem with the millions that don't get the proper health care they need simply because it's not set forth in the constitution. Our constitution is the foundation of our great nation, it's not the be all end all. For if it was, there would be no amendments to it.

I am fully aware what rights are but everyone has their own interpretations. How many debates have there been on human rights through the years? The debate is far from settled concerning the finer points.

What about the most basic human right there is, the right to life? Where does that fit into all of this? When someone is denied life saving treatment in the name of profit, isn't that taking his right to live away from him? I don't have the right to take your life, because it's your right to live. So if I have the power to save you and I don't because you don't have enough money to pay me, then I am guilty of taking your life.

Once again, it's a moral thing with me.
Nova encapsulated my thoughts very well. Thanks, Nova. :thumbup
 

Accountable

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

Tim, if you're an independent, then it's in name only... every single debate I've seen you in around here has been you defending the Democrats and talking about how "evil" the Republicans are. You give lip service to your claims that you don't like the Democrats either, but your words speak far louder than your claims.

Now, onto the subject at hand here for a minutes. Does anyone know the last time legislation this unpopular with the American people was passed? It was the Kansas-Nebraska Act

Kansas–Nebraska Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now, does anyone know what happened as a result of the Kansas-Nebraska act? The Republican party was formed (it didn't exist until 1854) as a direct response to how unpopular this legislation was. They went from not existing to taking control of the House and Senate, and then the Presidency 6 years later. The formation of the Republican party, and subsequent election of Lincoln to the Presidency, was one of the final tipping points that led this nation into Civil War.

Now, we're not dealing with slavery right now, but the issue of governmental control over our daily lives is something every bit as significant.
Good. We could use a second party in Washington.
 

retro

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

What about the most basic human right there is, the right to life? Where does that fit into all of this? When someone is denied life saving treatment in the name of profit, isn't that taking his right to live away from him? I don't have the right to take your life, because it's your right to live. So if I have the power to save you and I don't because you don't have enough money to pay me, then I am guilty of taking your life.

Being denied "life saving" treatment by an insurance company doesn't mean that you cannot get that treatment anyway, it just means that you're going to be financially liable for the treatment. You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding on how the health care industry works.
 

Tim

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

Being denied "life saving" treatment by an insurance company doesn't mean that you cannot get that treatment anyway, it just means that you're going to be financially liable for the treatment. You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding on how the health care industry works.

I know full well how the health care industry works and my problem isn't with them at all, it's with the sucking leaches that handle the money. The middle men between me and my doctor who's only lot in life is to profit off life and death.

You get what you Vote for........................Barak Housain Obama.........................Change......LMFAO

With a little effort, even you should be able to find some classes and get your GED. But even that won't help with your ignorance. :dunno Just a suggestion, stick to the games section.
Take a moment and listen to my sig.
 

Pabst

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

With a little effort, even you should be able to find some classes and get your GED. But even that won't help with your ignorance. :dunno Just a suggestion, stick to the games section.

wow, do you normally talk down to people or do you have a mental defect that causes you to act like an arrogant jackass to people who dont share your views?
 

Tim

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

:24: :24: :24: <breath> :24: :24: :24:
 

Accountable

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

nice
rolleyes.gif
 

Tim

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

In all honesty, he should have been gone months ago. We gave him way too many chances. And I wasn't involved those time either. :D
 

Tim

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia


Come to think of it, I kinda resent this. Have you ever see me use my admin status to push anyone around?

I have never pushed anyone around here. And I would never get involved with disciplining a member that I was arguing/debating/having words with.
 

Accountable

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

I haven't seen much banning at all here, to tell the truth. This thread is all the context I've had to go by.
I'm just a bit surprised that all the posts got deleted.
 
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Tim

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

That's an automatic function when you push the nuke button when banning a member. He should have been just banned and not nuked... But like I said, I didn't do it.

As far as members getting banned. I would say in an average week there are 20-30 trolls that get nuked. You guys just don't see it since all traces of that member go by by. I just nuked a troll 2 hours ago, it was about the 10th time she came back. And then there are the spammers. We see our share here.
 

dt3

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

*Cue Dave Matthews voice*

I did it, guilty as chaaaaarged.

That's the only time you'll ever hear me quote Dave Matthews.
 

Accountable

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Re: Democrats hope to ‘ping-pong’ Republicans out of final health care reform negotia

WASHINGTON (AP) - Speaker Nancy Pelosi said Thursday that she lacks the votes to quickly move the Senate's sweeping health overhaul bill through the House, a potentially devastating blow to President Barack Obama's signature issue. Pelosi, D-Calif., made the comment to reporters after House Democrats held a closed-door meeting at which participants vented frustration with the Senate's massive version of the legislation.

Her concession meant there was little hope for a White House-backed plan to quickly push the Senate-approved health bill through the House, followed by a separate measure making changes sought by House members, such as easing the Senate's tax on higher-cost health plans. Such an approach would be "problematic," she said.

"In its present form without any changes I don't think it's possible to pass the Senate bill in the House," Pelosi said, adding, "I don't see the votes for it at this time."

Pelosi's remarks signaled that advancing health legislation through Congress will likely be a lengthy process—despite Democrats' desire for a quick election-year pivot to address jobs and the economy, which polls show are the public's top concern.

"We're not in a big rush," Pelosi said. "Pause, reflect."
 
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