Debate time: Global Warming

[Goat Whisperer]

And there was no scientific evidence supporting that theory.

 

[canidae]

The climate has cycled throughout human history, and yet we are still here?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

The population is bigger we won't go extinct, but it will decrease our livestyles a lot, just has it has done to us in history, except worse because the climate is going to change much more rapidly now.

 

[Alien Allen]

And there was no scientific evidence supporting that theory.

they had a theory

and it was based on their knowledge

yours is also a theory and subject to being incorrect also

thousands of scientists do not agree with your view.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

they had a theory

and it was based on their knowledge

And mine is based on science

yours is also a theory and subject to being incorrect also

You haven't proved that.

thousands of scientists do not agree with your view.

And thousands agree with my veiw

:nod:

 

[canidae]

The population is bigger we won't go extinct, but it will decrease our livestyles a lot, just has it has done to us in history, except worse because the climate is going to change much more rapidly now.

A different type of carrying capacity then?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

A different type of carrying capacity then?

Yes, kind of like that.

 

[Alien Allen]

Originally Posted by Alien Allen
they had a theory

and it was based on their knowledge

And mine is based on science
theirs was based on the science available in their time

yours is also a theory and subject to being incorrect also

You haven't proved that.
not for me to prove you wrong. you need to convince me you are right
you have failed at that grasshopper
thousands of scientists do not agree with your view.

And thousands agree with my veiw
so what. obviously enough think it is bull shit or action would have been taken by now

............

 

[canidae]

Yes, kind of like that.

A prof in a enviro class I took once said that even if we stopped all sources of pollution today, it would already be too late, due to the lag time for those pollutants to get into the atmosphere and cause problems.

 

[Alien Allen]

A prof in a enviro class I took once said that even if we stopped all sources of pollution today, it would already be too late, due to the lag time for those pollutants to get into the atmosphere and cause problems.

universities are full of doom and gloomers

they prey on the weak minds of the youth who fail to question such absurdities.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

There is no doubt we are going to have consequences from amount of damage we have done, but the longer we wait the worse it gets.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

This is what happens when I have won scientifically in a debate. Either your man enough to accept I am right or at least partially right or you just start saying stuff with no evidence, proof, or logic.

 

[Alien Allen]

This is what happens when I have won scientifically in a debate. Either your man enough to accept I am right or at least partially right or you just start saying stuff with no evidence, proof, or logic.

you have proven nothing

and you won't either

but I give you credit for being stubborn and consistent

 

[Goat Whisperer]

Here is an article for everyone saying 'it's natural, even though we don't know why...'

It's a well established fact that climate changes naturally and sometimes dramatically. The pertinent question isn't "has climate changed in the past?" (of course it has) but "what is causing global warming now?" To begin to answer that, it's helpful to look at the major causes of natural climate change in the past.
Solar activity

Solar variations have been the major driver of climate change over the past 10,000 years. When sunspot activity was low during the Maunder Minimum in the 1600's or the Dalton Minimum in the 1800's, the earth went through 'Little Ice Ages'. Similarly, solar activity was higher during the Medieval Warm Period.
However, the correlation between solar activity and global temperatures ended around 1975. At that point, temperatures started rising while solar activity stayed level. This led a team of scientists from Finland and Germany to conclude "during these last 30 years the solar total irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most recent warming episode must have another source." More on the sun & global warming...
Milankovitch cycles

Earth's climate undergoes 120,000 year cycles of ice ages broken by short warm periods called interglacials. The cycle is driven by Milankovitch cycles. Long term changes in the Earth's orbit trigger an initial warming which warms the oceans and melts ice sheets - this releases CO2. The extra CO2 in the atmosphere causes further warming leading to interglacials ending the ice ages.

For the past 12,000 years, we've been in an interglacial. The current trend of the Milankovitch cycle is a gradual cooling down towards an ice age.
Volcanoes

Volcanic eruptions spew sulfate aerosols into the atmosphere which has a cooling effect on global temperatures. These aerosols reflect incoming sunlight, causing a 'global dimming' effect. Usually, the cooling effect lasts several years until the aerosols are washed out of the atmosphere. In the case of large eruptions or a succession of eruptions such as in the early 1800's, the cooling effect can last several decades. Strong volcanic activity exacerbated the Little Ice Age in the 1800's.
Summary

The usual suspects in natural climate change - solar variations, volcanoes, Milankovitch cycles - are all conspicuous in their absence over the past 3 decades of warming. This doesn't mean by itself that CO2 is the main cause of current global warming - you don't prove anthropogenic warming by eliminating all other options. But the primary causes of commonly cited climate change in the past have played little part in the current warming trend.
As for CO2, empirical observations show that CO2 has a warming effect as a greenhouse gas, CO2 is increasing in the atmosphere and the expected warming you would get from greenhouse gases is occuring. Any alternative theory that found a different cause of global warming would also need to explain why the expected (and observed) warming from CO2 has not eventuated.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

you have proven nothing

and you won't either

but I give you credit for being stubborn and consistent

I didn't say I 'proved' anything. I said that scientifically, I showed much more facts and evidence from far more credible sources and disproved many things your side brought forth; Scientifically at least, I won.

 

[Alien Allen]

What would be the top 5 things you believe need to be done to reduce CO2 in the atmosphere?

 

[Goat Whisperer]

(I like it how, once again, you ignored my argument)

1. Development and Research

The main thing we need to do is fund research and develop ways to decrease our emissions of CO2; I agree many of the current solutions we have now are not good enough and are not good for the environment.

2. Education

The more people we have supporting the idea of taking action against global warming, the more people we will have to fund the research and do things they can do now. Like turning of their lights, recycling, etc.

3. Kyoto Protocal

Kyoto will hardly do anything towards decreasing carbon emmissions, but it will get the government more invested in taking action against global warming.

4. Decrease Oil Usage

We need to fund research to find alternative sources for fuels, not so much from bio-fuels, but from solar energy, bio diesel, electricity, and hydrogen fuel cells.

5. Decrease Consumption

Use less paper by going electronic in schools, use less packaging for food and other supplies, reuse instead of throwing away, etc.

 

[Alien Allen]

(I like it how, once again, you ignored my argument)

1. Development and Research

The main thing we need to do is fund research and develop ways to decrease our emissions of CO2; I agree many of the current solutions we have now are not good enough and are not good for the environment.

2. Education

The more people we have supporting the idea of taking action against global warming, the more people we will have to fund the research and do things they can do now. Like turning of their lights, recycling, etc.

3. Kyoto Protocal

Kyoto will hardly do anything towards decreasing carbon emmissions, but it will get the government more invested in taking action against global warming.

4. Decrease Oil Usage

We need to fund research to find alternative sources for fuels, not so much from bio-fuels, but from solar energy, bio diesel, electricity, and hydrogen fuel cells.

5. Decrease Consumption

Use less paper by going electronic in schools, use less packaging for food and other supplies, reuse instead of throwing away, etc.

I was trying to get somewhere here and I think you just helped me out.

You followed hook line and sinker the same stuff that is used by the Global Warming crowd. Who predominantly deal with reducing fossil fuel usage


There is another component that seems to be ignored which it the tremendous growth in population in the last 50+ years

1955 2.8 billion
1960 3 billion
1965 3.3 billion
1970 3.7 billion
1975 4 billion
1980 4.5 billion
1985 4.85 billion
1990 5.3 billion
1995 5.7 billion
1999 6 billion
2006 6.5 billion
Then you have green space reduced by massive amounts. Hell where I live it is fully developed and yet less than 60 years ago it was mainly farmland or just heavily forested areas.

This component is being ignored. But then it is easier to blame the bad old gas engine and those horrifying inhalers along with the air conditioners rather than this.

 

[Goat Whisperer]

I was trying to get somewhere here and I think you just helped me out.

You followed hook line and sinker the same stuff that is used by the Global Warming crowd. Who predominantly deal with reducing fossil fuel usage


There is another component that seems to be ignored which it the tremendous growth in population in the last 50+ years

1955 2.8 billion
1960 3 billion
1965 3.3 billion
1970 3.7 billion
1975 4 billion
1980 4.5 billion
1985 4.85 billion
1990 5.3 billion
1995 5.7 billion
1999 6 billion
2006 6.5 billion
Then you have green space reduced by massive amounts. Hell where I live it is fully developed and yet less than 60 years ago it was mainly farmland or just heavily forested areas.

This component is being ignored. But then it is easier to blame the bad old gas engine and those horrifying inhalers along with the air conditioners rather than this.

I have no idea what you were trying to say here.

 

[canidae]

universities are full of doom and gloomers

they prey on the weak minds of the youth who fail to question such absurdities.

Yeah, I was older when I went back. I was too stunned at what I was hearing to offer an opinion. Plus I figured I'd be lynched if I countered the BS. It was more profs opinion than actual academics.