Dead Beat Fathers
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GoldDust Woman
Active Member
Not paying court ordered child support is abuse of the system! Uh, HELLO!!
Which is to pay a debt..
You are not supposed to go to jail for debt tim...unless the debt is due to a crime{fraud}
Thats a liable damage case Tim....and would only be comparable if the woman said she was raped.
But since you want to compare it to a damage case...both having consensual sex is not a liable fault case.
He actually has struck out as he has not shown the elements of a crime {fraud}
LOL...you have a point.
But we still have the issue of debtors prison is what this relates to.
GoldDust Woman
Active Member
Yeah, I give up. :surrender Have at him, Tim.
*Wanders away mumbling "you can't fix stupid"*
*Wanders away mumbling "you can't fix stupid"*
Broken down that means...The man is right..the debt is not due to fraud..therefore is not a criminal offense.
The man is right as we abolished debtors prison centuries ago.
I would also like to point out that contempt of court {used civil method} is to force a compliance of order...this could be...give her the car keys ..give her the birth certificate etc.
In order for civil contempt to be proper the state would need to show cause that one being placed in contempt IS ABLE TO COMPLY...which means the state would need to show that the father actually had the funds for back child support.{but refused to comply}
If the state could show the father actually had the funds they could simply garnish them.
Follow?
Criminal contempt gives one the right to a trial etc...which these guys do not have.
Understand?
In order for civil contempt to be proper the state would need to show cause that one being placed in contempt IS ABLE TO COMPLY...which means the state would need to show that the father actually had the funds for back child support.{but refused to comply}
If the state could show the father actually had the funds they could simply garnish them.
Follow?
Criminal contempt gives one the right to a trial etc...which these guys do not have.
Understand?
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See Tim /GDW they are charging them with a crime after civil contempt of court.
They are not charged with criminal contempt...Criminal contempt is intentionally "wrecking" a court proceeding via withholding evidence ect...an act to interfere with a hearing etc..interfence with the justice proceeding itself.
You have the right to a trial under criminal contempt and it is treated like a crime...you are given the protections that proceed with criminal trials.
Your honor...."you are a fool and so is your momma could land you a criminal contempt charge"
Not having 20k in your back pocket when you go to court and owe 20k child support is not criminal contempt.
Civil contempt is not intended to be a punishment...but a compliance order as stated prior.
Charging people with a felony for non support is a punishment.
The people are not charged with criminal contempt of court.
Criminal contempt is usually an issue over conduct disruptions..an attorney holding evidence to intentionally alter the outcome of a case etc.
Back to to civil contempt which was explained prior in above post.
I will paste it below for convenience.
-------------------------------
In order for civil contempt to be proper the state would need to show cause that one being placed in contempt IS ABLE TO COMPLY...which means the state would need to show that the father actually had the funds for back child support.{but refused to comply}
If the state could show the father actually had the funds they could simply garnish them.
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As we can see the judge is disregarding such...and is also intentionally creating the situation where you can not comply !!!
Akin to spanking the kid for not mowing the lawn{payment} as you had them grounded in their room.{jail}.
Still not enough abuse for you Tim....how about double jeopardy.
If you are found guilty of a crime and do your time...you are not supposed to be charged for that crime again...but they are still responsible for that debt and the debt that grew while locked up.
You lose your DL as well as professional licenses you may have,
WTF...if anything they should be ordered to get a DL{drivers license if they dont have one}..and or order them to advance themselves in the work field ...so how the fuck are you going to pay your child support if say you are a profession licensed electrician and they intentionally prevent you from doing such.....Bullshit.
This would be akin to you being denied your position in the cabinet industry and preventing you from driving for another Job !!!
Intentionally wrecking your lively hood to make it even more difficult to pay.
Fuck that shit.
If they really had the interest of the child first they would not hamper the ability for the parent to make money BUT RATHER HELP.
If you believe in the current child support system....you also should not have issues with being jailed for being behind on your house payments...losing your drivers license, your professional business license,..get released..still owe...get jailed again because you still owe !!
Get out...get a job...try to put a roof over your head on a couple hundred bucks a month....you couldn't even afford to go pick up your own kid during your date night or your weekends...if you could you couldnt afford to have any recreation..or feed her for that matter....The kid would think your were a broke ass bum lol....wait you would be
They are not charged with criminal contempt...Criminal contempt is intentionally "wrecking" a court proceeding via withholding evidence ect...an act to interfere with a hearing etc..interfence with the justice proceeding itself.
You have the right to a trial under criminal contempt and it is treated like a crime...you are given the protections that proceed with criminal trials.
Your honor...."you are a fool and so is your momma could land you a criminal contempt charge"
Not having 20k in your back pocket when you go to court and owe 20k child support is not criminal contempt.
Civil contempt is not intended to be a punishment...but a compliance order as stated prior.
Charging people with a felony for non support is a punishment.
The people are not charged with criminal contempt of court.
Criminal contempt is usually an issue over conduct disruptions..an attorney holding evidence to intentionally alter the outcome of a case etc.
Back to to civil contempt which was explained prior in above post.
I will paste it below for convenience.
-------------------------------
In order for civil contempt to be proper the state would need to show cause that one being placed in contempt IS ABLE TO COMPLY...which means the state would need to show that the father actually had the funds for back child support.{but refused to comply}
If the state could show the father actually had the funds they could simply garnish them.
----------------------------------
As we can see the judge is disregarding such...and is also intentionally creating the situation where you can not comply !!!
Akin to spanking the kid for not mowing the lawn{payment} as you had them grounded in their room.{jail}.
Still not enough abuse for you Tim....how about double jeopardy.
If you are found guilty of a crime and do your time...you are not supposed to be charged for that crime again...but they are still responsible for that debt and the debt that grew while locked up.
You lose your DL as well as professional licenses you may have,
WTF...if anything they should be ordered to get a DL{drivers license if they dont have one}..and or order them to advance themselves in the work field ...so how the fuck are you going to pay your child support if say you are a profession licensed electrician and they intentionally prevent you from doing such.....Bullshit.
This would be akin to you being denied your position in the cabinet industry and preventing you from driving for another Job !!!
Intentionally wrecking your lively hood to make it even more difficult to pay.
Fuck that shit.
If they really had the interest of the child first they would not hamper the ability for the parent to make money BUT RATHER HELP.
If you believe in the current child support system....you also should not have issues with being jailed for being behind on your house payments...losing your drivers license, your professional business license,..get released..still owe...get jailed again because you still owe !!
Get out...get a job...try to put a roof over your head on a couple hundred bucks a month....you couldn't even afford to go pick up your own kid during your date night or your weekends...if you could you couldnt afford to have any recreation..or feed her for that matter....The kid would think your were a broke ass bum lol....wait you would be
Joe the meek
Active Member
My statement was made from my own personal involvement in dealing with local neglected children.
I can only guess you're getting nailed for child support?
No...I dont have kids...have never paid child support.
I absolutely love the fact that you skip over everything else and get right to the "pay up $20k or go to jail"
You need to understand how court ordered support payments work before you condemn the system as unfair.
First and foremost, support isn't automatic if you have a child. The parent with the childs care must first file for support. If they don't then you are never obligated to pay a dime.
So let's say you are married and have two little rug rats running around. You decide to leave your wife and go out on your own. If you continue to help support the raising of your kids your wife may never file for support and that's the end of the story. But if you take the route of an asshole and abandon your responsibility, she may file for an order of support with the family court.
If she does, a court date is set where you BOTH appear before the judge to determine the facts of the case and if needed decide the amount of support.
Now the court doesn't just make up how much is fair, they base it on a formula that accounts for yours and hers living expenses, your income and ability to pay.
The amount is a set percentage of your income after basic living expenses. So that mean it IS an amount you can afford to pay, it's basically the amount that you WOULD have been paying if you were still financially taking care of your kids. Except now it's an order of the court since you aren't doing it voluntarily.
Ok, so you make $50k a year and the court has ordered you to pay $200/month per kid, so $400/month total. If your employment/pay doesn't change, this payment will stay the same. If you pay each month, there are no problems. Now if you decide that you no longer don't want to pay, after you get $3000 or so behind, you will be brought before the judge to tell your side of the story. If you can't afford the payments and have a legitimate reason for being behind, the order may be modified. They won't force you to pay the $3000 at that time, they will increase your payments each month until you are caught up.
And to be $20k behind... Yeah, it means you haven't paid a fucking cent for over 4 years. So boo fucking hoo if you end up in jail for not paying your court ordered support payments. There is no one to blame but your lame ass.
You need to understand how court ordered support payments work before you condemn the system as unfair.
First and foremost, support isn't automatic if you have a child. The parent with the childs care must first file for support. If they don't then you are never obligated to pay a dime.
So let's say you are married and have two little rug rats running around. You decide to leave your wife and go out on your own. If you continue to help support the raising of your kids your wife may never file for support and that's the end of the story. But if you take the route of an asshole and abandon your responsibility, she may file for an order of support with the family court.
If she does, a court date is set where you BOTH appear before the judge to determine the facts of the case and if needed decide the amount of support.
Now the court doesn't just make up how much is fair, they base it on a formula that accounts for yours and hers living expenses, your income and ability to pay.
The amount is a set percentage of your income after basic living expenses. So that mean it IS an amount you can afford to pay, it's basically the amount that you WOULD have been paying if you were still financially taking care of your kids. Except now it's an order of the court since you aren't doing it voluntarily.
Ok, so you make $50k a year and the court has ordered you to pay $200/month per kid, so $400/month total. If your employment/pay doesn't change, this payment will stay the same. If you pay each month, there are no problems. Now if you decide that you no longer don't want to pay, after you get $3000 or so behind, you will be brought before the judge to tell your side of the story. If you can't afford the payments and have a legitimate reason for being behind, the order may be modified. They won't force you to pay the $3000 at that time, they will increase your payments each month until you are caught up.
And to be $20k behind... Yeah, it means you haven't paid a fucking cent for over 4 years. So boo fucking hoo if you end up in jail for not paying your court ordered support payments. There is no one to blame but your lame ass.
GoldDust Woman
Active Member
Exactly!
Also, it becomes a felony charge if a non-custodial parent doesn't pay for a certain amount of time. Here... I've copied the charges against my grandson's sperm donor.
Oh, the poor, poor sperm donor... I'm so sorry. NOT!
| Charge/Judgment | |
| Description: | Non-Support, Total Arrears In Excess Of 12 Monthly Payments Due Under Order Of Support { Felony D RSMo: 568.040 } |
GoldDust Woman
Active Member
Notice the bond amount? Seriously? Now, you tell me how the sperm donor is demanded to come up with the total arrearage, THE MAN? 500 bucks, cash bond to get out of jail for not paying child support. I laugh in the face of this amount. Ironically, he comes up with the bond amount each and every time, within minutes, but - does not even try to make an attempt at paying child support. Which is really quite minimal, in the grand scheme of things.
| Warrant Issued | |
| Document ID: XXXXXX, for NAME WITH-HELD. , Bond Amount: 500.00, Bond Text: $500.00 cash only |
It was a wild figure I threw out,,,fact is many places can toss you in the jug for 3 grand..or 3 payments.
It has been explained to you several times how contempt of court here is not properly used....you fail to addess or rebut that issue,,and continue on the same track.
Those cases are not an issue...I would also like to point out that in many areas when a woman receives aid...the man is then drawn into the system.
Or she decides to fuck around on you then leave and file for support...you must not leave out that scenario.
I already provided a standard case with both making average media income...he is left with about 300 bucks a month to live off IF he is current on his support.
Where you pulled 200 bucks a month for 50k a year is beyond me...to further its dishonest for the context of the discussion.
--------------here is the post again----as you like to avoid anything like facts get in your way.
Here is a typical case with 2 children with both making 2 k a month ...{close to average median income}..and average of 2 kids
His obligation is 1027 dollars {which can yet be even higher if she shows added expenses!!}
He will pay fed tax,state tax ,ss medicare Medicaid on the 2 grand ...about a third of his gross on 2 k..just say 700 bucks.
He is now netting about 300 bucks a month !!!!!....this is without behind behind on payments ..the fucking would be harder if he was behind.
Not enough to cover basic rent in most cases.
She will have kept her money{wage} {minus tax}..but much less taken out as she has dependents}...and the thousand he had to give her...thus her having roughly 8x the income he has when they both make the same wage !!
He is left with nothing to live off of.
Winning a custody case is often the difference between who goes to the "gutter"..and sadly often the goal.
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Not only do you heavily distort what can and does actually happen....you also refuse to address the misuse of civil contempt of court.
I am not trying to sound like a prick but you offer nothing towards the discussion...as you refuse to discuss what is going on...refuse the facts ...and offer nothing but dishonest posts.
You are actually wasting you time by repeatably chasing down Tim to try and support your position...to be honest you were doing a better job by yourself.
GoldDust Woman
Active Member
You are actually wasting you time by repeatably chasing down Tim to try and support your position...to be honest you were doing a better job by yourself.
Chasing down Tim? Yeah, whatev...
I don't need anyone to support my position. I'm right. End of story.
You are right in the sense of morality...yes.Chasing down Tim? Yeah, whatev...
I don't need anyone to support my position. I'm right. End of story.
Its the legality I am addressing.
As a side note fuck the babies daddy...you dont need him you took the child because you love the child right.
While I dont have any of my own kids I have raised kids....I didnt need nor want anything from a babies Daddy....makes no difference to me.
I put myself in that position to raise someone else kids...no one made me do it
GoldDust Woman
Active Member
I'm right in the sense of the courts stance, as well. If I were a loser, YOUR tax money would assist me in supporting this boy. That is, if you work.
I didn't "take" the child. I fought my ass off in a court of law against his sperm donor... who, btw, to this day, has made nothing of himself. Nothing! (Which is why I fought for custody to begin with.)
No, I don't need him, but - his son does. If you'll go back and read this thread, instead of just talking out of your ass to try and build your nonsensical case, you'd see where I posted about it. Kids need their parents! Not just their money.
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