Can sciences prove the existence of God ?

[Sylviane88]

If no believer can prove certainly the existence of God, no atheist can also prove certainly the inexistence of god. It is a very big question that can not be answered by the current science: Does God exist ?

Indeed, science can not prove the existence of God directly .. However, it may do so indirectly ! how so ? let's take an example from the biology:​

The immune system which may be equated completely with the "military system":

Military barracks (lymph nodes) .. the soldiers (white blood cells and lymphocytes) .. camps and schools of education and training course (the bone marrow and thymus) .. intelligence Service (antibody) .. The means of communication used by the body's cells to ask for help from the "military system" when a foreign attack ( cytokines ) ... Fully integrated system !
The question here is: where did this amazing integration come from ? how did it begin ? how did this integration create itself ? all this is happening now in your body while you are saying there is no god !!!

Oh let's take another example: Mother and foetus .. In most cases, fetal and mother's blood group are different, and there is a vital exchange between the mother's and the fetal blood. However, the blood mixing is not possible thanks to a vital barrier (placenta). This is really a miracle that cannot begin by chance ! can the stupid theory of evolution explain the beginning of this miracle ?

Another example: Sex: Human and most other living organisms have two sexes totally different but quite integrated to the most important function to ensure survival. Not only that, but for both sexes, the so-called "natural instinct" which attract both sexes to each other! really great integration! How did it start? How did this integration create itself? Is there another chance theory that can explain this without a creator?​

There are so many other clear examples in the science that can lead us to the answer of our question.​

Someone says: "I don't believe in God because I don't see him !!!" .. my man you can not even see the whole universe ! how about it's creator ???
Someone says: "Who created God ?" .. This question is totally idiot ! God is the creator not the created ! I'm afraid to say that our mind cannot overpass this question because that leads us to an unlimited number of questions: who created the creator of god ? who created the creator of the creator of god ?!!!!!!!!!! who :mad ? and finally we will find the creator and not created which is: God .​

Cordially - Sylviane​

 

[sophie]

Science cannot prove something exists that doesn't exist. Science cannot even prove gravity for goodness sake. Even that is still just a theory.

 

[Sylviane88]

Science cannot prove something exists that doesn't exist.

As it can't prove something doesn't exist that exist

 

[sophie]

Yeah...that's the same.

 

[Tim]

Ok, let's imagine that this all was a creation of a god. Let's go on the assumption that evolution could not possibly explain why things are the way they are...

Then explain to me why you think your god is the right one out of the thousands that have been dreamed up by man. How do you know that Zeus is not the true god? How about the god of Abraham? Or any of the other gods dreamed up by man????

How about the fact that man and animal are so closely related that the only difference between us and them is a mere few lines of code in our DNA. Are you saying that this omnipotent god was so lacking in vision that he couldn't create a unique creature (man) He had to steal his design from animals to create us?
This fact alone shows me that evolution is the origin of man.

Using the argument that something is so complex it must be divine is weak, very weak...

 

[All Else Failed]

Science cannot prove something exists that doesn't exist. Science cannot even prove gravity for goodness sake. Even that is still just a theory.

Saying gravity is "just" a theory seems to be belittling what a theory is. A theory is something that is based off of evidence and testing. Like Evolution. There's solid evidence for it.

 

[All Else Failed]

If no believer can prove certainly the existence of God, no atheist can also prove certainly the inexistence of god. It is a very big question that can not be answered by the current science: Does God exist ?

Indeed, science can not prove the existence of God directly .. However, it may do so indirectly ! how so ? let's take an example from the biology:​

The immune system which may be equated completely with the "military system":

Military barracks (lymph nodes) .. the soldiers (white blood cells and lymphocytes) .. camps and schools of education and training course (the bone marrow and thymus) .. intelligence Service (antibody) .. The means of communication used by the body's cells to ask for help from the "military system" when a foreign attack ( cytokines ) ... Fully integrated system !
The question here is: where did this amazing integration come from ? how did it begin ? how did this integration create itself ? all this is happening now in your body while you are saying there is no god !!!

Oh let's take another example: Mother and foetus .. In most cases, fetal and mother's blood group are different, and there is a vital exchange between the mother's and the fetal blood. However, the blood mixing is not possible thanks to a vital barrier (placenta). This is really a miracle that cannot begin by chance ! can the stupid theory of evolution explain the beginning of this miracle ?

Another example: Sex: Human and most other living organisms have two sexes totally different but quite integrated to the most important function to ensure survival. Not only that, but for both sexes, the so-called "natural instinct" which attract both sexes to each other! really great integration! How did it start? How did this integration create itself? Is there another chance theory that can explain this without a creator?​

There are so many other clear examples in the science that can lead us to the answer of our question.​

Someone says: "I don't believe in God because I don't see him !!!" .. my man you can not even see the whole universe ! how about it's creator ???
Someone says: "Who created God ?" .. This question is totally idiot ! God is the creator not the created ! I'm afraid to say that our mind cannot overpass this question because that leads us to an unlimited number of questions: who created the creator of god ? who created the creator of the creator of god ?!!!!!!!!!! who :mad ? and finally we will find the creator and not created which is: God .​

Cordially - Sylviane​

Sure, I can't 100% prove that god isn't real. However, I do think that there are things that point to him not likely existing.


lol you just said that science cannot prove the existence of god but then you go on to say it can do it indirectly? Your argument falls apart even before you start it. Annnnd then you go on to the old creationist argument of "IT LOOKS COMPLICATED SO MAGIC MAN DONE IT!". Please sir, consult any biologist that deals with the immune system and they will tell you how it evolved through time. There are literally thousands of peer reviewed scientific journals on the subject. This leads me back to the common thread that connects all creationists: They are scientifically illiterate. I do not mean that as an insult, I mean it as a fact. Creationists go on and on about how things in the natural world are "far too complicated for them to have evolved!", yet they don't even understand the very basic things that they are critisizing! So please, go read a book.



You confuse the semantics of the word "miracle". A mother and fetus's relatonship biologically is not a miracle. Miracles are thing that happen that are otherwise impossible. Like a horse sprouting wings and flying away. Anything that happens in preganancy can easily be explained through natrualistic and biological means.



you say:

Someone says: "I don't believe in God because I don't see him !!!" .. my man you can not even see the whole universe ! how about it's creator ???

Actually no, I don't disbelieve in god because I cannot see him. I disbeleive in him because there is no evidence for him. Zero. Nothing. Nada. You also confuse the word "beleif" with the rightful word to use regarding the universe which is "accept". I accept that the universe is there because there is evidence of it.



Someone says: "Who created God ?" .. This question is totally idiot ! God is the creator not the created ! I'm afraid to say that our mind cannot overpass this question because that leads us to an unlimited number of questions: who created the creator of god ? who created the creator of the creator of god ?!!!!!!!!!! who :mad ? and finally we will find the creator and not created which is: God .


Actually, "who created god" is a perfectly reasonable question since Christians do not believe that something can come from nothing. God IS somehting, and since you do not think anything can arise out of nothing then you have to apply your logic to everything, including god. So where did god come from?


Fail.

 

[skyblue]

i swear sylvianes going to have jihad declared on us

 

[Ryder]

i swear sylvianes going to have jihad declared on us

*Nods then slowly walks out of the thread*

 

[Sylviane88]

Ok, let's imagine that this all was a creation of a god. Let's go on the assumption that evolution could not possibly explain why things are the way they are...

Then explain to me why you think your god is the right one out of the thousands that have been dreamed up by man. How do you know that Zeus is not the true god? How about the god of Abraham? Or any of the other gods dreamed up by man????

You should not believe in a god dreamed up by man ! You should believe in a god that is really God. The only real god is the god of Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad and the other prophets agreed by the Quran. Quran says:

""Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great."" (quran 1-255).

Now, Why should choose Islam's God and not any other religion ?

take for example Judaism: you have not the right to be jewish, except if your mother is jewish !!! so if God of Judaism is the true God, You'll 100/100 go to Hell !!!

For christianity: Jesus was only a man, born and die like any human. it's impossible for him to be the creator of the whole universe !. The lexical and the logical meaning of "GOD" is that the GOD is the creator, and it is impossible to believe that a creature is bigger or stronger than its creator !!! in Islam GOD has created everything. and there is nothing stronger than GOD, God is the absolute power. so how can you see him, and you did not even been able to see the whole universe ?.

For the Greek or Roman God, there are "gods" not only one, and they are made by "stone" by there creature !!!

The same for Hindus, there are several "Gods", all are made by "stones" by men. all these gods are just parts of the god called "brahma". also in Hindus: if the body dies, the spirit left him to get another body !!! therefore, eating meat is forbidden. and I didn't remember if my spirit was in another body !! ... you too.

In Islam, God is believed to be the only real supreme being, all-powerful and all knowing Creator, Sustainer, Ordainer, and Judge of the universe. Islam puts a heavy emphasis on the conceptualization of God as strictly singular. He is unique and inherently one, all-merciful and omnipotent. he has the most logical attributes:
The Most Gracious
The Most Merciful
The Ever Forgiving
The Ever Providing
The Lord and Cherisher of the Worlds
The Self Subsisting (upon whom all creatures depend for sustenance)
The Eternal Lord (who never dies)
The Supremely Wise

How about the fact that man and animal are so closely related that the only difference between us and them is a mere few lines of code in our DNA. Are you saying that this omnipotent god was so lacking in vision that he couldn't create a unique creature (man) He had to steal his design from animals to create us?

God "stole" the design of the man's DNA from the animal ?????????????:ninja:ninja:ninja How so ? was animal created by another creator ???

This fact alone shows me that evolution is the origin of man.

The theory of evolution is a failed theory that cannot even prove itself !!! how about the examples at the beginning of this thread ?

Sure, I can't 100% prove that god isn't real. However, I do think that there are things that point to him not likely existing

Show'em :thumbup

lol you just said that science cannot prove the existence of god but then you go on to say it can do it indirectly?

As you said this:

Sure, I can't 100% prove that god isn't real. However, I do think that there are things that point to him not likely existing.

Please sir, consult any biologist that deals with the immune system and they will tell you how it evolved through time. There are literally thousands of peer reviewed scientific journals on the subject. This leads me back to the common thread that connects all creationists: They are scientifically illiterate. I do not mean that as an insult, I mean it as a fact. Creationists go on and on about how things in the natural world are "far too complicated for them to have evolved!", yet they don't even understand the very basic things that they are critisizing! So please, go read a book.

Tell me how did the immune system evolve from nothing to a complex integrated system today ! do not forget to prove the same with the other examples shown at the beginning of the thread !

Actually no, I don't disbelieve in god because I cannot see him. I disbeleive in him because there is no evidence for him. Zero. Nothing. Nada. You also confuse the word "beleif" with the rightful word to use regarding the universe which is "accept". I accept that the universe is there because there is evidence of it.

You believe in the existence of the universe for only one evidence: you can see some of it ! (this is the only difference ) however you can not see all the universe ! so do not ask for seeing it's creator while you couldn't see it.

Actually, "who created god" is a perfectly reasonable question since Christians do not believe that something can come from nothing. God IS somehting, and since you do not think anything can arise out of nothing then you have to apply your logic to everything, including god. So where did god come from?

Well I'm not christian !

 

[All Else Failed]

Show'em :thumbup



As you said this:

Sure, I can't 100% prove that god isn't real. However, I do think that there are things that point to him not likely existing.



Tell me how did the immune system evolve from nothing to a complex integrated system today ! do not forget to prove the same with the other examples shown at the beginning of the thread !



You believe in the existence of the universe for only one evidence: you can see some of it ! (this is the only difference ) however you can not see all the universe ! so do not ask for seeing it's creator while you couldn't see it.



Well I'm not christian !

I do not think that the existence of god is likely because, again, there is zero evidence of his existence, and if you look at religion from an anthropological stance (I know, that is a big word, sound it out), humans came up with religion through cultural diffusion for coping purposes with a world they were trying to make sense of.


The immune system evolved through transposition. Look it up, it will take far too long to explain over a forum.If you want scholarly articles about it you can look these up in a database:


Transposition mediated by RAG1 and RAG2 and its implications for the evolution of the immune system Agrawal, Eastman, Schatz Nature vol. 394 pp. 744-751 (20 August 1998). See also review on pp. 718-719 by Ronald Plasterk.

The Accidental Immune System, John Travis, Science News Vol. 154 p.302-303 (7 November 1998)




Immune system has evolved to prevent autoimmune disease ( Study suggests chronic infections may c...)

Rice University | News & Media







I do not "believe" in the universe, I accept the universe. Those are two different things that you fail to recognize. There is visual and physical evidence of the Universe existing, no matter what part I am looking at, whether it be small or large.



This is just a huge waste of time though, you're a fundamentalist and i could show you endless sources of evidence that discredits what you're saying but you'll never accept it because you have blinders on.



EDIT: LOL, you're a student in medicine? I wouldn't say what you're saying here around your colleagues, you'll be laughed at.

 

[Sylviane88]

I do not think that the existence of god is likely because, again, there is zero evidence of his existence, and if you look at religion from an anthropological stance (I know, that is a big word, sound it out), humans came up with religion through cultural diffusion for coping purposes with a world they were trying to make sense of.

Please review, again, the examples shown at the beginning of the topic !

The immune system evolved through transposition. Look it up, it will take far too long to explain over a forum.If you want scholarly articles about it you can look these up in a database:


Transposition mediated by RAG1 and RAG2 and its implications for the evolution of the immune system Agrawal, Eastman, Schatz Nature vol. 394 pp. 744-751 (20 August 1998). See also review on pp. 718-719 by Ronald Plasterk.

The Accidental Immune System, John Travis, Science News Vol. 154 p.302-303 (7 November 1998)

Immune system has evolved to prevent autoimmune disease ( Study suggests chronic infections may c...)

Rice University | News & Media

All this is offtopic ! I'm not speaking about the evolving of some antibodies ( in few days ) by the lymphocytes against some infections ! or some of the diseases of the immune system !

I ask you again:

How did the whole immune system evolve from nothing ( millions/billions/unknown years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ? please understand me well !

EDIT: LOL, you're a student in medicine? I wouldn't say what you're saying here around your colleagues, you'll be laughed at.

LOL Understand my questions first, then say what you want to say around my colleagues :thumbup

 

[All Else Failed]

I ask you again:

How did the whole immune system evolve from nothing ( millions/billions/unknown years ago ) to the current complex and integrated system ? please understand me well !




LOL Understand my questions first, then say what you want to say around my colleagues :thumbup

no you see, i'm providing you with actual science. You're spouting archaic BS. Find some scientific journals that support your claims. Oh sorry, there are none. You ever wonder why they're aren't?

I gave you a link that shows how the immune system evolved. I suggest you read it.


Who says it evolved from nothing? None has ever said that. You are misunderstanding large swathes of science. Again, you're contradicting your own logic. Where did your god come from if nothing can come from nothing? its a valid question you're dodging. If can say god has always been with no creator, I can say the universe has always been without a creator, and the various things and processes that come out of the universe (evolution and the immune system) do not need any divine explanation. This is where you constantly fail. Your logic is contradictory.

 

[HottyToddyChick]

All I know is that many skeptical scientists have gone out to disprove the existence and have been unable to do so and have become believers. I believe in the historical aspects of Christianity, but a supreme being? I cannot blindly believe in something that for all I know is not even there, much less worship it.

And like Tim said- perhaps the first time I've agreed with him- who's to say that your God is the "right" god? Maybe the Egyptians had it right. Or the Greeks. Or the Incas.

 

[krystal08]

i think god is more of an idea and hope more than actual history.

 

[All Else Failed]

All I know is that many skeptical scientists have gone out to disprove the existence and have been unable to do so and have become believers. I believe in the historical aspects of Christianity, but a supreme being? I cannot blindly believe in something that for all I know is not even there, much less worship it.

And like Tim said- perhaps the first time I've agreed with him- who's to say that your God is the "right" god? Maybe the Egyptians had it right. Or the Greeks. Or the Incas.

Who? Specifically.

 

[All Else Failed]

in fact, everyone just read this, its interesting:

http://www.stanford.edu/~alinde/1032226.pdf

 

[HottyToddyChick]

This guy isn't a scientist, persay, but:

"The other extraordinary event was that the international doyen of philosophical atheism, Prof. Anthony Flew, now aged 81, publicly announced that he has abandoned his atheism, and had done so on the basis of scientific arguments, which now persuade him that there is a God."

More: bethinking.org - Science + Christianity - Has Science disproved God?

I saw it on a show once on Discovery, I believe, years ago. Not sure I could find the specific example I recall.

 

[StanJon]

Hmm... This topic is pretty interesting.

 

[Sylviane88]

no you see, i'm providing you with actual science. You're spouting archaic BS. Find some scientific journals that support your claims. Oh sorry, there are none. You ever wonder why they're aren't?

Mr "all else Failed" my examples are clear and known by anyone ! why should I show some scientifics journals ? did you find something against the current science ?

I gave you a link that shows how the immune system evolved. I suggest you read it.

Yes I read it and it was totally offtopic ! I know that: now, the immune system "as an integrated system" can evolve the quality of some of its components. but how about it before it was an integrated complex system ? before it was even a system ? where did its integration come from ?

Who says it evolved from nothing? None has ever said that.

You and and all the atheists say so ! before the human existed, wasn't "the immune system" nothing ? so how did it evolve from nothing to the current format ?

You are misunderstanding large swathes of science

:surrenderTruly all else failed !

Again, you're contradicting your own logic. Where did your god come from if nothing can come from nothing? its a valid question you're dodging. If can say god has always been with no creator, I can say the universe has always been without a creator, and the various things and processes that come out of the universe (evolution and the immune system) do not need any divine explanation. This is where you constantly fail. Your logic is contradictory.

Again, let me tell you that I'm not christian ! therefore I don't believe in the biblical verse saying "something cannot come from nothing" ... In Islam and like what is shown in the Quran, God can create somthing from nothing .. and can render something nothing ! ( ps: Einstein proved something like this in his famous theory: e=mc2 ) .. and again, do not overpass the limits of your mind by such questions while you cannot even tell me what is the nature of fire ! :thumbup