Bush Defends US Record On Darfur

[Peter Parka]

So because that nation has oil then those people do not deserve help? Ok I get you.

I'm sorry but you obviously have completely missed the point of what I say about this, I'm sorry if you completely misunderstand me but I'm afraid I can't put it any simpler for you so stop jumping to conclusions and trying to put words in my mouth that have no basis.

 

[gLing]

I don't think anyone "likes" the idea of either, but this is a question of where we can do the most good.

Do oil companies really need more power?

We are simply putting financial interest above human needs. We should be both purveyors and defenders of humanity.

Maybe so but in the end is it a bad thing to remove saddam? What do you think would happen if the US and allies invaded Darfur or N.Korea? It would be the same thing. The only difference is those nations are not sitting on huge oil reserves.
Those who act outraged over evil america taking out saddam would like for them to do the same thing elsewhere. The hypocrisy is profound.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Maybe so but in the end is it a bad thing to remove saddam? What do you think would happen if the US and allies invaded Darfur or N.Korea? It would be the same thing. The only difference is those nations are not sitting on huge oil reserves.
Those who act outraged over evil america taking out saddam would like for them to do the same thing elsewhere. The hypocrisy is profound.

Essentially, Iraq and Darfur or two seperate items, I do not agree with what has been done in Iraq, very simple, if they wanted Hussein removed that could have come without the expense of thousands of lives lost, both of our own and abroad.

Next, I don't think anyone is speaking about mass invasion, I think we are speaking of going there and getting aid to those who need it, that is not even a close comparison to what is happening in Iraq.

Not in my opinion. You will never convince me that invading Iraq was in the best interest of the US, it was in the best interest of the corporations that put Bush in office.

 

[gLing]

Essentially, Iraq and Darfur or two seperate items, I do not agree with what has been done in Iraq, very simple, if they wanted Hussein removed that could have come without the expense of thousands of lives lost, both of our own and abroad.

How? Wait for him to die? Then what?

Next, I don't think anyone is speaking about mass invasion, I think we are speaking of going there and getting aid to those who need it, that is not even a close comparison to what is happening in Iraq.

Remember Somalia and going in there giving aid? It did not work.

Not in my opinion. You will never convince me that invading Iraq was in the best interest of the US, it was in the best interest of the corporations that put Bush in office.

Now I agree with this. Invading Iraq was not in the best interest of the US. Even if saddam had nukes under his bed. I am under no illusion that the decision was ultimately about oil. However assuming there was no oil and Bush did what he did. Would he still be the evil war monger? After all Iraq had been in violation of the UN cease fire agreements for years and he brutalized his people. Why do they not deserve help too?

 

[Peter Parka]

I'm glad the intelligence about Saddams WMDs was wrong (not that I believed it anyway) because if it was true there would have been an extremely high chance I would have been dead within half an hour of us declaring war.:smiley24:

 

[All Else Failed]

You're right. There was just genocide, political murders, the boss's kids would rape and murder etc. No problem there.

I didn't say Iraq was a land of rainbows and lollipops, Darfur was/is way worse off.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

How? Wait for him to die? Then what?

Remember Somalia and going in there giving aid? It did not work.

Now I agree with this. Invading Iraq was not in the best interest of the US. Even if saddam had nukes under his bed. I am under no illusion that the decision was ultimately about oil. However assuming there was no oil and Bush did what he did. Would he still be the evil war monger? After all Iraq had been in violation of the UN cease fire agreements for years and he brutalized his people. Why do they not deserve help too?

First question, arrest him or bullet in the head. That's fixed.

Then you render aid the humanatarian way, you don't force it.

And Somalia, we tried, that's better than nothing....Or do we just throw up our collective hands and say, ehhh to hell with it..It never works, let em all die.

 

[gLing]

I didn't say Iraq was a land of rainbows and lollipops, Darfur was/is way worse off.

N. Korea is worse off than anybody so what is your point? The US took out a nasty bad guy and that offends you because you do not like the reasons.

 

[Peter Parka]

First question, arrest him or bullet in the head. That's fixed.

To be honest, that would have been done long ago if it was realistically possible. Don't forget, the CIA has been trying to assasinate Castro for years without success. Just because the USA is a hell of a lot more powerful dosen't mean this is possible. Bin Laden and the former president of the Taliban are still at large despite the war, don't forget.

 

[gLing]

First question, arrest him or bullet in the head. That's fixed.

How to you figure they walk in and arrest or kill him? Assuming they managed to kill him will that bring down the entire regime full of people waiting to replace him?

And Somalia, we tried, that's better than nothing....Or do we just throw up our collective hands and say, ehhh to hell with it..It never works, let em all die.

Yes in Somalia we tried to help but the nasty warlords got in the way of that.
Which is why you fight to remove them.

 

[Peter Parka]

N. Korea is worse off than anybody so what is your point? The US took out a nasty bad guy and that offends you because you do not like the reasons.

Pretty much, yeah! It opens a whole new kettle of worms as to why attacks on our countries could be justified!

 

[Pudding Time]

Remember Somalia and going in there giving aid? It did not work.

You're hot today with comparing things that aren't even close..

Operation Gothic Serpent was a SF only operation. The US could win this easily with including a carrier battle group, and 15,000 Marines.

 

[Pudding Time]

Which is why you fight to remove them.

So why aren't we doing this in Darfur?

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

How to you figure they walk in and arrest or kill him? Assuming they managed to kill him will that bring down the entire regime full of people waiting to replace him?

Yes in Somalia we tried to help but the nasty warlords got in the way of that.
Which is why you fight to remove them.

So in essence we should do what WWII Germany did? Put up a big sign that says "Resistance is futile....You will be assimilated"?

Here is my idea on issues like this, I look at it like triage in a hospital...Hear me out:

Compund fracture of the femur, with a femoral artery laceration.

What would you do first? Stop the bleeding, because the bone will heal if you keep the body alive...Right?

So you stop the wrongdoing the best you can first, render aid where at all possible, and TEACH.....TEACH Democracy, you don't tell someone they can be free if they can survive the onslaught of mortar fire that has just destroyed what home they had.

If our country is the expert on Democracy.....Wouldn't we make good teachers?

I had a Nobel Laurate in college physics, and he never had to carry a handgun to class to get his point across. He taught us physics.

 

[gLing]

You're hot today with comparing things that aren't even close..

Operation Gothic Serpent was a SF only operation. The US could win this easily with including a carrier battle group, and 15,000 Marines.

Didn't they initially send in 20,000 marines to Somalia from Dec. 1992 to May 1993?

So why aren't we doing this in Darfur?

Don't get me wrong I would be all for it. My point is why be outraged over one nation being helped and then champion it for another?

 

[gLing]

So why aren't we doing this in Darfur?

Because Bush is afraid you, AEF and PP will hate him for it. After all going after bad guys is the wrong thing to do.

So in essence we should do what WWII Germany did? Put up a big sign that says "Resistance is futile....You will be assimilated"?

Here is my idea on issues like this, I look at it like triage in a hospital...Hear me out:

Compund fracture of the femur, with a femoral artery laceration.

What would you do first? Stop the bleeding, because the bone will heal if you keep the body alive...Right?

So you stop the wrongdoing the best you can first, render aid where at all possible, and TEACH.....TEACH Democracy, you don't tell someone they can be free if they can survive the onslaught of mortar fire that has just destroyed what home they had.

If our country is the expert on Democracy.....Wouldn't we make good teachers?

I had a Nobel Laurate in college physics, and he never had to carry a handgun to class to get his point across. He taught us physics.

That is what is being tried in Iran. Teach democracy. There are so many there who want it.

 

[Peter Parka]

Don't get me wrong I would be all for it. My point is why be outraged over one nation being helped and then champion it for another?

Because of the reasons for it. Iraq was never about a humanitarian mission of help. Even the government didn't try to pretend it was. Darfur is completely different.

 

[gLing]

Because of the reasons for it. Iraq was never about a humanitarian mission of help. Even the government didn't try to pretend it was. Darfur is completely different.

But does that matter to the poor person who is helped?

 

[Peter Parka]

But does that matter to the poor person who is helped?

Yes, if Iraq was a purely humanitarian mission, do you really think there would still be quite as much unrest and uprising there after the invasion? I'm sure the people who had their houses bombed to shit and their families killed by the invasion are ever so grateful for our help!:smiley24:

 

[gLing]

Yes, if Iraq was a purely humanitarian mission, do you really think there would still be quite as much unrest and uprising there after the invasion? I'm sure the people who had their houses bombed to shit and their families killed by the invasion are ever so grateful for our help!:smiley24:

What uprising and unrest? Do you mean the foreigner aided terrorists fighting against the idea of a freely elected government? Those fighting for another saddam that would murder any political opposition?