Bush: Conservative, or moderate?

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Carthage

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He is an imperialist because he is using military might to force our agenda and spread our influence and military power across the globe, and to secure strategic footholds in the middle east.
He is using military might to spread our agenda; in that sense you could consider him an imperialist. But when the agenda is freedom, imperialism isn't a bad thing..

Iraq isn't about terrorism. If we were going after terrorism we would be in Syria and Iran right now, not Iraq. Iraq is about securing strategic resources for the future and establishing a permanent military spring board.

Iraq is, without a doubt, about terrorism. We're putting the war on terror on one front, instead of over-extending our military (more then we already have) and invading syria and iran as well.

This isn't about capitalism. Its about him and his corporate bed fellows raping America (and other countries) just for their own gains. Half of our problems stems from the rich ruling us.

How on earth are they raping America? Other countries, yes, and I don't support that, but here? No. And how many of our problems stem from the rich ruling us? And of those that do, we have to make some sacrifices. It's better then not having the rich, at least.

You can't fight terrorism like its a standing army, nor is it a single group of individuals. Its theoretically everyone, everywhere. Plus, I would think twice about throwing around the word "terrorist". By our own government's definition of terrorism, our founding fathers would have been considered terrorists as well.
You can still fight it. And terrorism is not always a bad thing - just when its used against freedom, then it is.

the very idea of "people are poor because they don't work hard enough" is crazy. A lot of people are poor because of social/cultural and economic injustice that still exists. Sure, there are poor people because they make bad choices, but to say this is the reason for all poverty is ridiculous.
It is not the reason for all poverty, it is the reason for a lot of poverty. If a person really works hard in this hey counntry, and puts everything into it, how can they not get ahead?

But, I'm going to guess that you are white, and middle/upper-middle class, so you wouldn't know of those personally.
:24::24::24:
Oh, that was funny. No, I am white, but I'm lower, maybe lower-middle class. I used to live (got out last September, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, Praise be his name) in a very poor community populated mostly by rednecks. But these are New York Rednecks (It was in upstate NY), and not the average larry-the-cable-guy rednecks. Upstate NY rednecks are a bunch of socialist idiots who wouldn't know the way out of a brown paper bag.

Why shouldn't the government help your parents? The government exists to make sure the welfare (well being) of the people is taken care of, and I think social programs are just fine for people in debt.
First- the government is established to look after your rights. Social Welfare is produced from your own hard work, whereas rights are God-given blessings. Some social programs for people in some amount of debt with a low chance of ever getting out, yes, but for most people - no. We should work oursleves out (It would help if they would repeal the child labor laws. :rant:Sorry, just always been a personal bug of mine).

Look at various European countries that are welfare states, they have a much higher standard of living than us and they manage to function fine and exceed us in many aspects of society.

Europe is more-so a welfare society. The Government is not actually the major funder of these programs, but is just one out of a combination of independent, charity, corporate benefits, etc. The welfare state in Europe is a much overplayed role.
 
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All Else Failed

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He is using military might to spread our agenda; in that sense you could consider him an imperialist. But when the agenda is freedom, imperialism isn't a bad thing..



Iraq is, without a doubt, about terrorism. We're putting the war on terror on one front, instead of over-extending our military (more then we already have) and invading syria and iran as well.



How on earth are they raping America? Other countries, yes, and I don't support that, but here? No. And how many of our problems stem from the rich ruling us? And of those that do, we have to make some sacrifices. It's better then not having the rich, at least.


You can still fight it. And terrorism is not always a bad thing - just when its used against freedom, then it is.


It is not the reason for all poverty, it is the reason for a lot of poverty. If a person really works hard in this hey counntry, and puts everything into it, how can they not get ahead?


:24::24::24:
Oh, that was funny. No, I am white, but I'm lower, maybe lower-middle class. I used to live (got out last September, THANK GOD ALMIGHTY, Praise be his name) in a very poor community populated mostly by rednecks. But these are New York Rednecks (It was in upstate NY), and not the average larry-the-cable-guy rednecks. Upstate NY rednecks are a bunch of socialist idiots who wouldn't know the way out of a brown paper bag.


First- the government is established to look after your rights. Social Welfare is produced from your own hard work, whereas rights are God-given blessings. Some social programs for people in some amount of debt with a low chance of ever getting out, yes, but for most people - no. We should work oursleves out (It would help if they would repeal the child labor laws. :rant:Sorry, just always been a personal bug of mine).



Europe is more-so a welfare society. The Government is not actually the major funder of these programs, but is just one out of a combination of independent, charity, corporate benefits, etc. The welfare state in Europe is a much overplayed role.


You really buy the "We're in iraq for freedom" huh? Well, I can tell I'm not going to convince you either way...so have fun with that. :wtf:





You can't put terrorism on "fronts". One of the biggest mistakes people make is to think "terrorism" is some sort of standing army where all it's members name's are in a guest book and wear uniforms and are subject to never leave a certain area. Really though, how many of the 9/11 hijackers came from Iraq? I bet I can tell you that one: 0. If we are really after spreading freedom and ending terrorism, then shouldn't we be in Korea, Iran and Syria? Iraq is small fish compared to what all of those nations are/were doing. All Iraq is, is a central operation point in the middle east to project out power to other middle eastern countries.



Oh please. With corporations like Haliburton and Enron can you seriously say that big corporations have the little person's best interests in mind? They swindle their investor's money, set up their own non-bid contracts, screw people over, etc etc etc. The problem with the rich ruling us is simple: They only care about getting more wealthy and that comes before helping people. Their ties and relationships with big business MAKE them consult their monetary clients and interests before the common man and before they make any decision. Plus, they are in their own little rich bubble. They do not grasp the kind of problems most Americans struggle with. How can they possibly represent us when they are totally opposite of us?



Only when its used against freedom....hmmm....see this is where the lines get very blurry and the areas get Grey. Who's freedom? What freedoms? Perhaps all of the insurgence in iraq right now fighting our troops see themselves as fighting for their kind of freedom? Can you blame them? You would fight against people who invade your own region of the world too if it came to it. Either way, you seem to support terrorism and our own support of it and its groups as long as it's not directed towards us, and someone else.



Someone can work their heart out and still be in poverty for the rest of their lives. Believe it or not, classism and racism are still pretty embedded in our culture and society. Plus, people that are born into poverty usually are born into it so bad that they hardly know where to even begin. The social barriers are still alive and well today that keep people poor. You seem to have the old notion of "Everyone who pulls themselves up by their boot straps will make it in America!" is faulty. Do you think people LIKE being poor? They do what they can to get ahead, but often times they are too lost to know how to do it.


Whereabouts in Upstate NY? Thats where I live. Well, I live around Albany. I promise you I'm not an idiot. ;)



The government is there to protect yuor rights, of course. BUT, they are also there to help their citizenry when they need it, that is why we have various social programs in place to help people when they need it. A person that is physically unable to work NEEDS monetary help, since they cannot provide for themselves, for example. But, I can predict you hate welfare with every fiber of your being, if my intuition is correct. Woah....you want them to REPEAL child labor laws!? Those laws are in place to protect young children from being abused by their employers. If they were repealed all sorts of worker abuse would take place...


No, the various European governments all use and support various welfare programs which are provided by the state. There are many more government related welfare programs in place than private ones, such as charities.
 

Carthage

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You can't put terrorism on "fronts". One of the biggest mistakes people make is to think "terrorism" is some sort of standing army where all it's members name's are in a guest book and wear uniforms and are subject to never leave a certain area. Really though, how many of the 9/11 hijackers came from Iraq? I bet I can tell you that one: 0. If we are really after spreading freedom and ending terrorism, then shouldn't we be in Korea, Iran and Syria? Iraq is small fish compared to what all of those nations are/were doing. All Iraq is, is a central operation point in the middle east to project out power to other middle eastern countries.

Iraq was the largest terrorist supporting country that wasn't too large (at least that's what we thought) to invade. We're there fighting terrorism. It can't be beaten 100%, but you can cut out a pretty sizable chunk. The point of the war isn't the terrorists nationality, it's their ideology. The people that attacked us on 9/11 were Islamofascists, and Iraq was supporting Islamofascists. The link was enough justification, no more was needed. We would also have gone after Syria and Iran, but our military was becoming over-extended on the Afghan and Iraqi fronts, and so we decided to see if we can't finish those up first.

Oh please. With corporations like Haliburton and Enron can you seriously say that big corporations have the little person's best interests in mind? They swindle their investor's money, set up their own non-bid contracts, screw people over, etc etc etc. The problem with the rich ruling us is simple: They only care about getting more wealthy and that comes before helping people. Their ties and relationships with big business MAKE them consult their monetary clients and interests before the common man and before they make any decision. Plus, they are in their own little rich bubble. They do not grasp the kind of problems most Americans struggle with. How can they possibly represent us when they are totally opposite of us?

Of course big corporations don't have our interests in mine. However, it's a symbiotic relationship and they end up looking out for the interests of the public through the invisible hand. They're wealth comes from the people, so they have a symbiotic relationship with the public, and only stupid corporations try to over-tax the public or try to swindle their investors; they will fall, even if they have to be taken down by the government (there are some corps. more immoral then others, and they are taken care of).



Only when its used against freedom....hmmm....see this is where the lines get very blurry and the areas get Grey. Who's freedom? What freedoms? Perhaps all of the insurgence in iraq right now fighting our troops see themselves as fighting for their kind of freedom? Can you blame them? You would fight against people who invade your own region of the world too if it came to it. Either way, you seem to support terrorism and our own support of it and its groups as long as it's not directed towards us, and someone else.

For the most part, the world is black and white; freedom is allowing the individual a large amount of personal mobility; that's freedom. The insurgents in Iraq may see themselves fighting for freedom, but it is not real freedom. Can we blame them? No. I understand, I sympathize. But that doesn't make it right. And yes, I would fight people who invaded my region, but that's only because I support my country's ideology. If this country were a dictatorship of any sort, blow it hell.



Someone can work their heart out and still be in poverty for the rest of their lives. Believe it or not, classism and racism are still pretty embedded in our culture and society. Plus, people that are born into poverty usually are born into it so bad that they hardly know where to even begin. The social barriers are still alive and well today that keep people poor. You seem to have the old notion of "Everyone who pulls themselves up by their boot straps will make it in America!" is faulty. Do you think people LIKE being poor? They do what they can to get ahead, but often times they are too lost to know how to do it.

Yes, people often become lost because of their poverty; they don't seem to know what to do. But that isn't an excuse. My mom was in that state of poverty, her parents were hippies, and she lived most of her childhood and teenage years in the slums of Utica (NY). But she managed to do it; now she has a very good job in a company, and is doing all right as far as her business life goes. Financially, she's still stuck because of her choices in her late teens, but that's mostly because my Dad doesn't have a job (physical disability.) The government should give some handouts to some of these people, if they have a really serious problem, but only a little bit, just enough to help them get back on track.


Whereabouts in Upstate NY? Thats where I live. Well, I live around Albany. I promise you I'm not an idiot. ;)
An hour or two north of Syracuse. And I trust your not an idiot; I don't judge anyone's personality or intelligence by their political beliefs; I hope you don't either.

The government is there to protect yuor rights, of course. BUT, they are also there to help their citizenry when they need it, that is why we have various social programs in place to help people when they need it. A person that is physically unable to work NEEDS monetary help, since they cannot provide for themselves, for example.
When they need it; that's the fundamental statement. For the most part, people are completely able to help themselves. Those that cannot work do, of course, need some monetary help, but most people in America who cannot work actually can, and aren't looking in the right spots. My dad is physically disabled, but if he really tried, he could get at least some sort of job.


But, I can predict you hate welfare with every fiber of your being, if my intuition is correct.
Close. I accept that you need some welfare state elements, but for the most part, I think we need much less of it then the average american.

Woah....you want them to REPEAL child labor laws!? Those laws are in place to protect young children from being abused by their employers. If they were repealed all sorts of worker abuse would take place...

Child labor laws prevent kids under 14 or 15 from getting a job; this I do not support. As long as kids are given the same working rights and protections as an adult, I don't see any problem with employing a ten year old. As long as the grades are taken into account, it should be fine.
 

Pudding Time

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Why on earth do people think you can wage war against terrorism? This has to be one of the most idiotic ideas ever created.

Violence breeds terrorism. You take out 1 terrorist, and create 2 or 3 more. Never in our (human) history has any Military ever been able to stop terrorism.
 

Carthage

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Why on earth do people think you can wage war against terrorism? This has to be one of the most idiotic ideas ever created.

Violence breeds terrorism. You take out 1 terrorist, and create 2 or 3 more. Never in our (human) history has any Military ever been able to stop terrorism.


You can't destroy it, true. But you can cut a sizable chunk out with severe and enormous military action. Hundreds of thousands of troops would be able to at least take out a lot of the terrorists; it wouldn't stop it, it can't be stopped, but we can decrease the effectiveness.
The violence breeds terrorism thing can be canceled out with a good government being set up (won't happen until enormous military starts stopping terrorist attacks) and a stable economy being formed (depends on the last two).
So really, the only answer is a huge military locking down the country. Or, we could not fight the terrorists, and just hope nothing like 9/11 happens.
 

Pudding Time

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You can't destroy it, true. But you can cut a sizable chunk out with severe and enormous military action. Hundreds of thousands of troops would be able to at least take out a lot of the terrorists; it wouldn't stop it, it can't be stopped, but we can decrease the effectiveness.
The violence breeds terrorism thing can be canceled out with a good government being set up (won't happen until enormous military starts stopping terrorist attacks) and a stable economy being formed (depends on the last two).
So really, the only answer is a huge military locking down the country. Or, we could not fight the terrorists, and just hope nothing like 9/11 happens.

No you can't. You can only cut down on the current active ones. But in doing so you will be creating more. Therefor in the bigger picture you are not cutting down on terrorism.

And you state that a good government can stop terrorism? Where has this ever happened before to base a statement like on?

Seriously... "A huge military lock down on the country"????? This is a joke... Terrorists aren't within only one country. They are all over the place. And when violence creates more terrorists, the new ones aren't just created in the same country the US is waging war. They are created all over the globe.

Try as you may, there is no logic to be found in a war on terrorism.
 

All Else Failed

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Iraq was the largest terrorist supporting country that wasn't too large (at least that's what we thought) to invade. We're there fighting terrorism. It can't be beaten 100%, but you can cut out a pretty sizable chunk. The point of the war isn't the terrorists nationality, it's their ideology. The people that attacked us on 9/11 were Islamofascists, and Iraq was supporting Islamofascists. The link was enough justification, no more was needed. We would also have gone after Syria and Iran, but our military was becoming over-extended on the Afghan and Iraqi fronts, and so we decided to see if we can't finish those up first.



Of course big corporations don't have our interests in mine. However, it's a symbiotic relationship and they end up looking out for the interests of the public through the invisible hand. They're wealth comes from the people, so they have a symbiotic relationship with the public, and only stupid corporations try to over-tax the public or try to swindle their investors; they will fall, even if they have to be taken down by the government (there are some corps. more immoral then others, and they are taken care of).





For the most part, the world is black and white; freedom is allowing the individual a large amount of personal mobility; that's freedom. The insurgents in Iraq may see themselves fighting for freedom, but it is not real freedom. Can we blame them? No. I understand, I sympathize. But that doesn't make it right. And yes, I would fight people who invaded my region, but that's only because I support my country's ideology. If this country were a dictatorship of any sort, blow it hell.





Yes, people often become lost because of their poverty; they don't seem to know what to do. But that isn't an excuse. My mom was in that state of poverty, her parents were hippies, and she lived most of her childhood and teenage years in the slums of Utica (NY). But she managed to do it; now she has a very good job in a company, and is doing all right as far as her business life goes. Financially, she's still stuck because of her choices in her late teens, but that's mostly because my Dad doesn't have a job (physical disability.) The government should give some handouts to some of these people, if they have a really serious problem, but only a little bit, just enough to help them get back on track.



An hour or two north of Syracuse. And I trust your not an idiot; I don't judge anyone's personality or intelligence by their political beliefs; I hope you don't either.


When they need it; that's the fundamental statement. For the most part, people are completely able to help themselves. Those that cannot work do, of course, need some monetary help, but most people in America who cannot work actually can, and aren't looking in the right spots. My dad is physically disabled, but if he really tried, he could get at least some sort of job.



Close. I accept that you need some welfare state elements, but for the most part, I think we need much less of it then the average american.



Child labor laws prevent kids under 14 or 15 from getting a job; this I do not support. As long as kids are given the same working rights and protections as an adult, I don't see any problem with employing a ten year old. As long as the grades are taken into account, it should be fine.

Ah, so what you're saying is that we do better fighting against counties that can hardly defend themselves. What about us? We are a terrorist supporting country as well, what should be done about us? You're still thinking of terrorism as a standing army. You can kill a sizable chunk one day, but then after a while the ranks will just be filled again by people who hate you for doing so. Terrorism is a Hydra. They are going to continue hating us as long as we keep our brand of foreign policy up. THAT is why they dislike us, not because of "our freedoms" not because our nation is mostly Christian etc etc, its because we've had a very intrusive foreign policy with the middle eats ever since and in some cases before and after WW2. Yes, it is their ideology, but tell me: How do you fight an idea with bullets? You can't shoot it, you can imprison it...its an IDEA. Sure, you can try and kill as many people as you want that hold the ideology, but that doesn't kill the idea or the hatred we breed by doing so. Its all futile. If you want to fight terrorism, we must change out foreign policy.


I'm not saying all corporations are bad. I'm saying that you shouldn't never trust them when all they have in mind is their self. When you have a few powerful people in control of mass amounts of wealth (Hey, that sounds like the government too!), all that can happen IS corruption.


I whole heartedly disagree with the notion that the world for the most part is black and white. The world is an extremely dynamic, changing and flowing entity. I know what freedom is by our standards, but to someone else freedom can be something different. I'm not saying I AGREE with their brand of freedom, but to say there is only one idea of freedom isn't seeing it from all points of view. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.


I don't think of it so much as an excuse, but a REAL reason why. Poor people for the most part are not educated enough to know how to handle money, for the most part that isn't their fault, they were raised in an environment where smart money practices were never taught to them. Plus, don't think that just because your mom did it means ANYONE can do it. She is just one example that doesn't prove anything besides the fact that she did it. Its not the same for all people. Does your father receive disability money, or some sort of compensation?


Hmm....Syracuse from what I hear isnt the best place to live. :p Albany is boring.



If it were true that people could help themselves and be fine without government help for the most part, then we wouldn't really need a government, would we? People would just help themselves and each other. Well, thats not the case. Some people need special attention more than others. I agree that only people who cannot work for legitimate reasons should receive welfare. BUT, I am for a lot of socialistic programs such as universal health care. No, not the Canadian kind (although theirs is much more efficient than anyone will tell you), there are dozens of different kinds of social health care out there that many countries use and in most cases it is much better than our nightmare of a health care system.


Meh...I'm all for young people under 16 being able to work as long as the work doesn't overreach their limits that come with their age, and they receive full worker's rights and protections.
 

dt3

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If you want to fight terrorism, we must change out foreign policy.
Your solution for "defeating" terrorists is to give them exactly what they want. Which, in turn, will show them they can beat us. Once they know they can control our actions, why the heck would they stop? They could just decide "Ok, they caved on policy, now let's make them convert to an Islamic country. Sure, they'll be against it at first, but if we knock down some buildings, they'll do it."

Your way breeds terrorism, also. Just in a different way. I'm sure you'd like to think if we pulled out of the Middle East, they'd leave us alone. But you have absolutely no way of knowing how they would react.
 

All Else Failed

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Your solution for "defeating" terrorists is to give them exactly what they want. Which, in turn, will show them they can beat us. Once they know they can control our actions, why the heck would they stop? They could just decide "Ok, they caved on policy, now let's make them convert to an Islamic country. Sure, they'll be against it at first, but if we knock down some buildings, they'll do it."

Your way breeds terrorism, also. Just in a different way. I'm sure you'd like to think if we pulled out of the Middle East, they'd leave us alone. But you have absolutely no way of knowing how they would react.
Thats incredibly ridiculous and you know it.

Tell me, how many Islamic terrorism problems did we have before WW2? I bet I can tell you. Also, why is it that countries that do not have an aggressive, militaristic foreign policy towards nations with strategic resource reserves do not get bombed?
 

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Thats incredibly ridiculous and you know it.

Tell me, how many Islamic terrorism problems did we have before WW2? I bet I can tell you. Also, why is it that countries that do not have an aggressive, militaristic foreign policy towards nations with strategic resource reserves do not get bombed?

Because they make a good curry? :)
 

dt3

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Thats incredibly ridiculous and you know it.

Tell me, how many Islamic terrorism problems did we have before WW2? I bet I can tell you. Also, why is it that countries that do not have an aggressive, militaristic foreign policy towards nations with strategic resource reserves do not get bombed?
You're wrong, and I'll gladly prove it. Whether or not you'll see what I put in front of you is another story.

Everyone remembers the Spanish train bombings in 2004.
11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These terrorists were trained and funded by Al-Qaeda.
Spain furious as US blocks access to Madrid bombing 'chief' - Times Online

Shortly after the bombings, Spain renounced their support for the Iraqi War, and pulled out all their troops.
BBC NEWS | Europe | Spain PM orders Iraq troops home

Now, despite all this, just last month Spanish authorities thwarted ANOTHER terrorist bombing plot against their transportation system.
Suspects 'planned Spanish suicide attacks' - CNN.com




Now tell me. How did pulling their troops out of Iraq make Spain any safer?
 

All Else Failed

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You're wrong, and I'll gladly prove it. Whether or not you'll see what I put in front of you is another story.

Everyone remembers the Spanish train bombings in 2004.
11 March 2004 Madrid train bombings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

These terrorists were trained and funded by Al-Qaeda.
Spain furious as US blocks access to Madrid bombing 'chief' - Times Online

Shortly after the bombings, Spain renounced their support for the Iraqi War, and pulled out all their troops.
BBC NEWS | Europe | Spain PM orders Iraq troops home

Now, despite all this, just last month Spanish authorities thwarted ANOTHER terrorist bombing plot against their transportation system.
Suspects 'planned Spanish suicide attacks' - CNN.com




Now tell me. How did pulling their troops out of Iraq make Spain any safer?
That last attack that was thwarted was probably being planned when they were still in Iraq.


Plus, my point still stands: Countries that are not/were not interventionist in nature when it comes to foreign policy do not get attacked. They attacked us because of our foreign policy.
 

dt3

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That last attack that was thwarted was probably being planned when they were still in Iraq.


Plus, my point still stands: Countries that are not/were not interventionist in nature when it comes to foreign policy do not get attacked. They attacked us because of our foreign policy.
See, what you're doing is missing the point here. Mostly because it doesn't support your beliefs.

I provided proof, solid EVIDENCE, that caving to the terrorists demands will NOT STOP attacks on a country.

What you should do in rebuttal is provide proof that pulling out of the Middle East WILL stop terrorist attacks. I'll wait.
 

Boomer

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See, what you're doing is missing the point here. Mostly because it doesn't support your beliefs.

I provided proof, solid EVIDENCE, that caving to the terrorists demands will NOT STOP attacks on a country.

What you should do in rebuttal is provide proof that pulling out of the Middle East WILL stop terrorist attacks. I'll wait.

:clap
 

All Else Failed

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See, what you're doing is missing the point here. Mostly because it doesn't support your beliefs.

I provided proof, solid EVIDENCE, that caving to the terrorists demands will NOT STOP attacks on a country.

What you should do in rebuttal is provide proof that pulling out of the Middle East WILL stop terrorist attacks. I'll wait.
Thats not evidence of anything besides Spain getting bombed because they were involved with Iraq, not because the "caved".

I cannot "prove" the future. All I know is that if we stop being international assholes, the world will see us in a different light, but first we have to at least try and see what happens.


Again, why do countries that do not share our international policy not get attacked?
 

Pudding Time

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See, what you're doing is missing the point here. Mostly because it doesn't support your beliefs.

I provided proof, solid EVIDENCE, that caving to the terrorists demands will NOT STOP attacks on a country.

What you should do in rebuttal is provide proof that pulling out of the Middle East WILL stop terrorist attacks. I'll wait.

There's no solid link between the failed bombing attempt and Spain's involvement in the Iraq war. Spain has had a very turbulent history with Muslims for centuries.. This failed attack could have been for numerous reasons.
 

dt3

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Again, why do countries that do not share our international policy not get attacked?
We can't change our past international policy. Let's just say we completely change our policy and leave the Middle East.

Spain did exactly that. The attacks did not stop.

How can you say that if we did that, the attacks would stop? You can't. We can only base our opinions off of what has happened.

What has happened is this:
Spain withdrew from the Middle East.
Terrorists still attempted attacks against Spain.

France has long been one of the most outspoken countries against our policies in the Middle East. Yet terrorists still try to attack them.
CNN.com - Muslim group threatens France - Mar 17, 2004
Terror attack foiled in France?

Here's my point.

I'm not saying that our polices aren't the cause of their hatred toward us. They are. The terrorists have said that for a long time.

What I'm saying is that, based on recent history from similar situations, changing our policy WILL NOT stop terrorist attacks against us. And I've provided several examples of why it won't work. They will continue to hold our past policies against us.
 

dt3

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There's no solid link between the failed bombing attempt and Spain's involvement in the Iraq war. Spain has had a very turbulent history with Muslims for centuries.. This failed attack could have been for numerous reasons.
That actually helps prove my point.

Despite Spain's recent changes in policy, terrorists are still trying to attack them for their PAST policies.

Based on this fact, I think it's fair to extrapolate that even if the US completely changed it's foreign policy, the terrorists would still hold our past actions against us.
 

All Else Failed

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We can't change our past international policy. Let's just say we completely change our policy and leave the Middle East.

Spain did exactly that. The attacks did not stop.

How can you say that if we did that, the attacks would stop? You can't. We can only base our opinions off of what has happened.

What has happened is this:
Spain withdrew from the Middle East.
Terrorists still attempted attacks against Spain.

France has long been one of the most outspoken countries against our policies in the Middle East. Yet terrorists still try to attack them.
CNN.com - Muslim group threatens France - Mar 17, 2004
Terror attack foiled in France?

Here's my point.

I'm not saying that our polices aren't the cause of their hatred toward us. They are. The terrorists have said that for a long time.

What I'm saying is that, based on recent history from similar situations, changing our policy WILL NOT stop terrorist attacks against us. And I've provided several examples of why it won't work. They will continue to hold our past policies against us.


UNLESS we at least try and see what happens. It is better to try than not to even consider it.
 
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