Black Market

[darkangel]

For smokes here we are paying $4.50 minimum so it's not so bad. I know that there are places that pay a lot more for things than we do in PA. I just bought a carton for $45 when I could have gotten them in Delaware for $34. That's why I usually drive the hour to go there. But with the price of gas it's not worth the drive unless you're going to buy a months worth. Gas is like $3.50 average here.

 

[AUDRAA]

oh $4.50 thats cheap maybe I should take a trip across the river I work in trenton its not far from there

 

[darkangel]

Trenton is only about 20 minutes from where I'm at. I know that when we went to the Jersey Shore last month gas was a lot cheaper.

 

[lumpenstein]

I thought a long time about this thread before deciding to post.

Within a year we had our van broken into and robbed. We had our car broken into and robbed. We had our house broken into and robbed. We lost valuable items and family heirlooms that can't ever be replaced.

The black market operates with the same people that have the same utter disregard for others' valued and cherished property. If I ever find out who broke into our house I will not call the cops. I will call the fucking morgue!

People that operate the black market, including theives and fences are criminals. Those that would do business with them are also criminals.

 

[darkangel]

People that operate the black market, including theives and fences are criminals. Those that would do business with them are also criminals.

So are you saying that everyone who sells things cheaper than at the stores are criminals and that just because we buy from black marketers we are criminals? There are people out there who have access to buy things in bulk and sell them at a cheaper price. I'm not talking about jewelry and things like that which are most likely stolen.

 

[lumpenstein]

So are you saying that everyone who sells things cheaper than at the stores are criminals and that just because we buy from black marketers we are criminals? There are people out there who have access to buy things in bulk and sell them at a cheaper price. I'm not talking about jewelry and things like that which are most likely stolen.

I never said that. My post is clear and concise; it deals with stolen goods. The black market also deals with a huge amount of contraband that is either not allowed in a country for whatever reason or smuggled to avoid paying duty and taxes. That is stealing government revenue from the taxpayers.

There is a neat little scam here in North America that a lot of people are probably not aware of. The natives are exempt from most taxes, including tobacco products. The tobacco industry sells large quantities to the Canadian natives who take it legally, and tax free, across the border into the U.S. under the stipulation that it stay there. But the natives smuggle it back into Canada and sell it cheaply and for a huge profit:

In May 2006 former R. J. Reynolds vice-president of sales Stan Smith pleaded guilty to charges of defrauding the Canadian government of $1,200,000,000 (CDN) through a cigarette smuggling operation. Smith confessed to overseeing the 1990s operation while employed by RJR. Canadian-brand cigarettes were smuggled out of and back into Canada, or smuggled from Puerto Rico, and sold on the black market to avoid taxes. The judge referred to it as biggest fraud case in Canadian history. [2]

- from here: R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[darkangel]

Well stolen goods are a whole separate ball game. I think that the black market doesn't just consist of these kinds of people. There are people who buy things at wholesale and are able to sell enough at a discounted price and still make a buck. It's hard to differentiate who is who on the black market and I feel for your loss but I still stand by the fact that I will buy certain things from the Black Market in good conscience.

 

[Alien Allen]

Well stolen goods are a whole separate ball game. I think that the black market doesn't just consist of these kinds of people. There are people who buy things at wholesale and are able to sell enough at a discounted price and still make a buck. It's hard to differentiate who is who on the black market and I feel for your loss but I still stand by the fact that I will buy certain things from the Black Market in good conscience.

Definition of Black Market

1. The illegal business of buying or selling goods or currency in violation of restrictions such as price controls or rationing.
2. A place where these illegal operations are carried on.

I am with Lumpy on this one.

People that operate the black market, including theives and fences are criminals. Those that would do business with them are also criminals.

 

[darkangel]

Well if the US didn't tax certain things the way they do then there wouldn't be a need for a black market. C'mon the way they tax smokes I think I may just quit and just smoke weed because it's not taxed! :sarcasm Oh that's illegal isn't it in this country? :eek

 

[Alien Allen]

Well if the US didn't tax certain things the way they do then there wouldn't be a need for a black market. C'mon the way they tax smokes I think I may just quit and just smoke weed because it's not taxed! :sarcasm Oh that's illegal isn't it in this country? :eek

I agree with you. The taxes on cigarettes are absurd. The state of MI went after tons of people that were buying over the internet and avoiding the state tax. some people had to pay thousands of dollars.

Get used to the term user fees. With taxes at a max they will become more and more prevalent. That and fines and penalties on businesses. If you drive a business truck you can expect to get pulled over and it cost at a minimum of $600 in fines. All of this shit in the effort to protect us. Which is bullshit. The govt is broke and they are just finding ways to get revenue.

 

[darkangel]

All of this shit in the effort to protect us. Which is bullshit. The govt is broke and they are just finding ways to get revenue.

I'm with you on this one. The government is at an all time low where this is concerned. Punish the people for the governments own mistakes is what they're doing! It is bullshit!!!

 

[lumpenstein]

Well if the US didn't tax certain things the way they do then there wouldn't be a need for a black market. C'mon the way they tax smokes I think I may just quit and just smoke weed because it's not taxed! :sarcasm Oh that's illegal isn't it in this country? :eek

That doesn't wash. Do you really believe that the black market exists only to avoid what some people believe is over-taxation on certain items?

Let me explode that myth. Here in Canada we have very strict gun control laws. We also have a very real gang and drug problem. Where do you think all those drug gansters are getting their guns from? The black market doesn't exist merely to avoid what people think are excessive taxes. It exists to get what is illegal (drug smuggling is a subset of the black market) or to get something cheap because it is stolen (included in this is the very large market of pirated CDs and DVDs).

 

[darkangel]

That doesn't wash. Do you really believe that the black market exists only to avoid what some people believe is over-taxation on certain items?

I didn't say that was the only reason that there is a Black Market. I said that is why I will continue to buy certain items from the black market. I do not believe that the US Government has the right to tax certain recreational items the way that they do. It is a way for them to make some of the money back that they choose to spend so unwisely.

 

[lumpenstein]

I didn't say that was the only reason that there is a Black Market. I said that is why I will continue to buy certain items from the black market. I do not believe that the US Government has the right to tax certain recreational items the way that they do. It is a way for them to make some of the money back that they choose to spend so unwisely.

I used to think that way too but I have changed my tune. As soon as we start arbitrarily judging what is good decision making and what is not we initiate anarchy. I may sound anal in my old age but change should be made through the democratic process. I believe the government has the "right" to tax anything they want. There is no universal law carved in stone that says certain things can or cannot be taxed, or by how much. These things are decided - sometimes seemingly arbitrarily - by the people we vote into office to represent us. If you abandon that process you abandon democracy.

 

[darkangel]

Problem being that even though this is a democracy and we vote to have the people put in office that are in there, they really don't represent themselves honestly and do the things that they say they are going to do or not do. Sometimes the majority does not meet the needs of the people as a whole. If there are more wealthy people voting then the wealthy make out better than the middle and lower classes. But that's democracy I guess. :dunno

 

[lumpenstein]

Problem being that even though this is a democracy and we vote to have the people put in office that are in there, they really don't represent themselves honestly and do the things that they say they are going to do or not do. Sometimes the majority does not meet the needs of the people as a whole. If there are more wealthy people voting then the wealthy make out better than the middle and lower classes. But that's democracy I guess. :dunno

I understand what you are saying but what I am saying is that the ability to buy black market goods just to get them tax free is scanty justification for (and only a small part of) the black market and all the harm it does. It's like drug dealers and the the addicts that breakk into people's homes to feed their habit. It may make one feel good to buy from the black market and pull a fast one on the tax collectors but when you have been victimized by thieves it's a different feeling entirely.

 

[Alien Allen]

Other than pot I can't really think of anything I bought on the Black Market. Like Lumpy said it just furthers a criminal endeavor. and as he said the way to address oppressive taxes is to do that by kicking out those elected officials that passed the taxes.

Of course what Lumpy won't tell ya that no tax is too high :24:

 

[Hans]

I want good health care, I want good schools, I want good wages for government workers, so that we can have better teachers to teach our children, I want better roads with less bumps, I want more government officals to help serve my needs, I want a stronger military, I want more people involved in national security. However, I do not want to pay an extra 1 dollar tax on something I dont need to survive, that just isnt fair!

My thoughts on people complaining about taxes. Money doesnt grow on trees, if you want more in life, you pay for more. If youre angry at taxes, mail your congressmen, vote, and make a difference. However, keep in mind when you lose taxes, the government is going to cut funding somewhere.

 

[lumpenstein]

Very true Hans. Too often I hear people complaining about poor services from government then the next day complain about having to pay so much taxes. Simple rule of thumb, you get what you pay for.

 

[Alien Allen]

The main reason govt services suck is because govt has no business doing half the shit they do.

Too many forgot what govt in this country is supposed to provide. If you did not have the cradle to grave bull shit then there would be money to pave roads and fix the infrastructure.

As to teachers pay. That is such bull it is hardly worth addressing. They get paid plenty. Some deserve more but with a socialistic organization like the NEA protecting their flock it will never happen.

I don't mind paying taxes. But when it gets pissed away like on the bailout that just occurred that is insanity.