Belief in God hinges on the reality and morality of hell.

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Greatest I am

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Belief in God hinges on the reality and morality of hell.

At the end of the day, with a God who hides, the only good way to ascertain if he would be real or not is by his morality. This assumes that having a sense of morality is good and not having it is not and that a God would be good.

The pivotal question for God’s existence is;---- would a good God create a place like hell?

The definition of hell here is the one of eternal fire and torture with no chance of reprieve.
IOW. The traditional hell

To help me determine if there was a real Bible God or not, I asked and answered a few simple question for myself.

1. Is it morals and good justice for a soul to be able to sin for a finite time and then have to suffer torture for infinity?

2. Is it good morals and justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.

3. Is it good morals and justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?

4. Is it good morals and justice to keep a soul alive in hell instead of killing it for mercies sake?

I answered no to all of the above and determined that there is no way in hell that a hell would be a moral construct and that a good God would not create such a place. If hell exists then Bible God cannot if he is a good God.

If you answered no, as I did, then the existence of Bible God also gives a no answer.


If you answered yes to any of the above then let us examine your reasons for thinking that God would create this, to you, moral construct called hell.

Please justify your yes and show what I am to give a rebuttal to and let us try to reason together. This is mostly impossible from what I have seen and experienced but having kept this O P fairly simple, I am hopping that we can.

Regards
DL

PS. The next post is to give you a glimpse of what others think of some of these issues and to stimulate thought. There is quite a bit of it and it is there for reference only.
 
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Greatest I am

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On hell.
Better to shovel coal in hell than to spend eternity watching friends, neighbors and our children in torture and flame forever.
Only a sick mind would conceive of such a situation or wish it upon anyone. That is why God would not do such because then, heaven would be hell.
If those in heaven did not go insane then they could not have once been human or good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE_TWhzG-p0&feature=related

Is God good?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaL7CkQaQpU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9FKn4rKXEY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTpJ8PGT2yY&feature=related

Satan’s history.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat2.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat1.htm#menu
http://abcnews.go.com/nightline/faceoff -----About ½ way down the page.



O T, N T, Jesus and hell.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TurpisHaereticus#p/u/2/k88ntaUXP2c

What the Bible says.
Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
By any definition, sendind souls to hell is overcoming evil with evil and hell in this sense is not Biblical.

Regards
DL
 

Peter Parka

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I dont see why belief in a god has to have anything to do with hell. You can believe in god without thinking he must be the god of the bible, you know. Belief in god and belief in a religion and all the stuff they preach can be two completely seperate things.
 

edgray

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The idea that a loving, caring and forgiving God would cast people into hell for as little as not believing in Him is just stupid. It shows that God is a tool. That God is nothing more than a bully and a nasty piece of work.
 

Tuffdisc

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The idea that a loving, caring and forgiving God would cast people into hell for as little as not believing in Him is just stupid. It shows that God is a tool. That God is nothing more than a bully and a nasty piece of work.

Nothing wrong in worshipping God
 

Greatest I am

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I dont see why belief in a god has to have anything to do with hell. You can believe in god without thinking he must be the god of the bible, you know. Belief in god and belief in a religion and all the stuff they preach can be two completely seperate things.

So how does your God reward and punish?

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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Nothing wrong in worshipping God

What does an omnipotent God need with worship?

Does man crave the worship of ants?

You reduce your God by showing needs and wants that God has no use for.

You are just showing your own insecurities and needs.

God does not expect to be adored for just being what he is.

Regards
DL
 

Greatest I am

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God doesn't bully me, if I want to worship or believe him that is entirely up to me

Sure but if you do not then you are sent to eternal torture.

Hmm.Let me see, do I chose my way or eternal torture? What a hard ----FREE---choice.

Given that God wills the very best for us, and given that we ourselves want the very best for ourselves, then it would seem that no one could make a FULLY INFORMED decision against God. And if not FULLY INFORMED, then the free will defense of hell falls down.

For me, this would apply to the above, given that to reject that which is (by the definition of Christians) the very best for us would imply that one is not fully informed.

This argument is developed in many ways in Thomas Talbott's book "The Inescapable Love of God", where he shows how a doctrine of Universalism (all are eventually saved) is compatible with the Biblical teaching as found in the NT, especially the writings of St Paul.

Regards
DL
 

Carn

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Well I for one don't believe in the existence of heaven nor heal. Also I would consider good and evil to be very subjective. I also think that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs so I don't really know where this discussion is heading.
 

Peter Parka

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So how does your God reward and punish?

Regards
DL

Well I wouldn't say I have a god as I seriously doubt the existance of one but plenty of people believe in a god but dont see that it makes any difference in their lives and think it's down to themselves to get out of life what they put in.
 

TommyTooter

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I didn't say there was. But it seems strange to worship such a nasty entity.
YHVH does have a bit of a temper, doesn't he? and he is pretty ruthless in punishing people that don't do things his way.

he makes a lot of promises to the people who listen and obey to make them want to listen and obey. according to my ancestors, he keeps them, so in keeping with the ways of my ancestor abraham, i'm not shy about questioning whether he is being fair or not.
 
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