Atheists Better Educated? NEVER!

[edgray]

You too? Doesn't ANYONE know that intelligence has nothing to do with intelligence????

Your IQ is the same at 5 years old as it is when your 25. So how does knowledge play into it at all? You can read all the books in the world and your IQ won't change

No that's not true at all. My IQ has varied a lot over the years, to a margin of 20 points. You can practice IQ tests, increase your ability to perform the kinds of tasks that are in IQ tests.

IQ tests ONLY measure how good someone is IQ tests. Nothing more. It's an over-simplified view of intelligence that just doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[Tim]

so you prove your intellectual superiority with a childish insult?

Never once have I stated or implied that I was intellectually superior.

Kimmy, let me see if I can explain this one more time...

Some people are able to process and understand information very easily where others really need to work hard at it. It has nothing to do with memory, it's the ability to hear a new concept and understand it so completely that it just makes sense.

 

[Tim]

No that's not true at all. My IQ has varied a lot over the years, to a margin of 20 points. You can practice IQ tests, increase your ability to perform the kinds of tasks that are in IQ tests.

IQ tests ONLY measure how good someone is IQ tests. Nothing more. It's an over-simplified view of intelligence that just doesn't cut the mustard.

You are right, how we measure intelligence is flawed and not very accurate. But that doesn't mean that intelligence doesn't vary from one person to the next, nor does it mean that there isn't intelligence.
Our lack of an ability to accurately measure it across all people does not negate the validity that intelligence is something we are born with.

 

[MoonOwl]

Your IQ is the same at 5 years old as it is when you're 25.

So, all the drinking & stuff I did for all those decades didn't drop my IQ? Good to know I'm still a genius then. I figured after all of the 80's and half of the 90's I was down to about -2. :24:

I's still smart! WooHoo!

:kneelsuckers:

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I can agree that there are just some smarter people on a biological level, but memory does have a role in it too to whatever extent.

I don't agree that we are born with intelligence, but rather born with the capabilities to learn, and what intelligence we acquire is dependent upon our environment as well. Why do people in lower classes have such 'low intelligence'?

 

[edgray]

You are right, how we measure intelligence is flawed and not very accurate. But that doesn't mean that intelligence doesn't vary from one person to the next, nor does it mean that there isn't intelligence.
Our lack of an ability to accurately measure it across all people does not negate the validity that intelligence is something we are born with.

That's a highly outdated view I'm afraid. Intelligence, it appears, isn't something you're born with. Yes, there are genes that predispose people to be more intelligent, but studies have shown that removing that gene (in mice) and raising them in a more stimulating environment allows them to completely overcome their genetic deficiency.

Also, it ignores the epigenetic effect: that is, the environment turning on and off genes over the course of ones life.

So yes, there is a genetic predisposition to be intelligent, but it's environmental factors that really determine this. It's not something you're born with, people are raised to be intelligent.

 

[Tim]

I can agree that there are just some smarter people on a biological level, but memory does have a role in it too to whatever extent.

I don't agree that we are born with intelligence, but rather born with the capabilities to learn, and what intelligence we acquire is dependent upon our environment as well. Why do people in lower classes have such 'low intelligence'?

Intelligence is a hereditary trait, that may explain lower class people having lower intelligence.

And you are still confusing intelligence with knowledge, life experience, book smarts, etc.
Intelligence IS the ability to learn and comprehend. Your intelligence is the same from cradle to grave.

 

[Tim]

Evidence in favour of �nature�

In the heyday of eugenic IQ testing in the 1920s there was no evidence for the heritability of IQ. It was just an assumption of the practitioners. Today that is no longer the case. The heritability of IQ (whatever IQ is!) is now an hypothesis that has been tested - on twins and adoptees. The results really are quite startling. No study of the causes of intelligence has failed to find a certain and often substantial heritability. What varies from study to study is the amount that can be attributed to heritability.
Concordance rates of IQ scores

• Evidence from family studies provides the main supporting evidence from which arguments about the relative roles of genetics and environment are constructed.
  
  A large number of the study of twins reared apart was undertaken by Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota starting in 1979. He �collected� pairs of separated twins from all over the world and reunited them while testing their personalities and IQs. Other studies at the same time concentrated on comparing the IQs of adopted people with those of their adopted parents and their biological parents or their siblings. Put all these studies together, which include the IQ tests of tens of thousands of individuals, and the table looks like this:
  
  Same person tested twice 87%
• Identical twins reared together 86%
• Identical twins reared apart 76%
• Fraternal twins reared together 55%
• Biological siblings reared together 47% (studies show that reared apart about 24%)
• Parents and children living together 40%
• Parents and children living apart 31%
• Adopted children living together 0%
• Unrelated people living apart 0%

http://wilderdom.com/personality/L4-1IntelligenceNatureVsNurture.html

 

[edgray]

Evidence in favour of �nature�

In the heyday of eugenic IQ testing in the 1920s there was no evidence for the heritability of IQ. It was just an assumption of the practitioners. Today that is no longer the case. The heritability of IQ (whatever IQ is!) is now an hypothesis that has been tested - on twins and adoptees. The results really are quite startling. No study of the causes of intelligence has failed to find a certain and often substantial heritability. What varies from study to study is the amount that can be attributed to heritability.
Concordance rates of IQ scores

• Evidence from family studies provides the main supporting evidence from which arguments about the relative roles of genetics and environment are constructed.
  
  A large number of the study of twins reared apart was undertaken by Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota starting in 1979. He �collected� pairs of separated twins from all over the world and reunited them while testing their personalities and IQs. Other studies at the same time concentrated on comparing the IQs of adopted people with those of their adopted parents and their biological parents or their siblings. Put all these studies together, which include the IQ tests of tens of thousands of individuals, and the table looks like this:
  
  Same person tested twice 87%
• Identical twins reared together 86%
• Identical twins reared apart 76%
• Fraternal twins reared together 55%
• Biological siblings reared together 47% (studies show that reared apart about 24%)
• Parents and children living together 40%
• Parents and children living apart 31%
• Adopted children living together 0%
• Unrelated people living apart 0%

http://wilderdom.com/personality/L4-1IntelligenceNatureVsNurture.html

Interesting information which unfortunately is quite a way behind current genetic understanding. The nature vs nuture is an oversimplified view. Quite simply, neither are true. What is true, is that it is impossible to talk about biology outside the context of environment.

The identical twin phenomena, used to bolster the genetic view is now being understood much more. You see, genes are affected by environment, and environment starts as soon as life starts: in the mother's womb. Identical twins share the same first 9 months of life in an identical environment.

This is a crucial part of a human's early development. This is where we get our first idea of what world is going to be like, through the hormones in the mother, the amount and quality of food, how stressful the world is, how caring, how nurturing, how much you're going to be expected to use your body or your brain, etc etc. This easily accounts for having the same intelligence: they're exposed to an identical environment.

 

[Minor Axis]

Basically it turns out that atheists know more about religion than the religious. Seemingly, this better understanding of religion is what leads people to atheism.

"Atheism is an effect of that knowledge, not a lack of knowledge. I gave a bible to my daughter. That's how you make atheists"

Religion has no logical basis. It requires faith to work. Religion gives you the so called 'facts' but does not want you to analyze them, just accept them. So they are not facts, just premises that you are asked to accept as fact. It's the people who think about them, that question and reject them for lacking a supportable basis, in some cases become Atheists or generalistic Spiritualists.

 

[Zorak]

No that's not true at all. My IQ has varied a lot over the years, to a margin of 20 points. You can practice IQ tests, increase your ability to perform the kinds of tasks that are in IQ tests.

IQ tests ONLY measure how good someone is IQ tests. Nothing more. It's an over-simplified view of intelligence that just doesn't cut the mustard.

that's probably all the drugs messing with your iq.

 

[edgray]

that's probably all the drugs messing with your iq.

I'm starting to think it's this place actually.

 

[sexysadie]

I can actually see how atheists are more intelligent.

I mean just look at the history of our species. Thousands of years ago we had human sacrifices to the gods, we annihilated entire populations because a high priest was commanded by god. Animal sacrifice, pedophilia, sex with animals, self mutilation and the list goes on. But as we evolve and our knowledge expands we leave the dark ages behind, where they belong.
The more advanced the civilization, the further they distance themselves from the fairy tales of the past. Just as we no longer believe in fire breathing dragons and fairies, future generations will look back at this time and laugh at you believers. :dunno

OMG that's the biggest load of BS I think I've ever heard and just the fact alone that you'd post such nonsense proves to me and should tell others reading that you're now desperate enough to scrape the bottom of the proverbial barrel. :24:

Ok Tim, if you really wanna go there I will too... perhaps the athest is the direct decendant of this so called high priest and you're all a bunch of amoral monsters who worship the devil and eat little babies...lol...there I did it, I lowered myself to your standards...my bad.

You talk about believers as if we're a rare find when in reality a huge percentage of the population of this world believe in God and have since the beginning of time, so contrary to what you post, yes there is a God, and yes, we will have to answer to Him one day....and if it makes you feel better to laugh then so be it......it won't change a thing my friend, not a damn thing.


(how can a person call themselves a christian and talk this way to others? That's your next arguement I'm sure....and here's the answer, just to save you all the time and bother......because I can, and I'm more than certain that God will forgive me....................this time)


In reply to the OP....atheists may consider themselves more educated when it comes to religion ( or at least what they've read about religion) but when it comes to God they obviously know nothing.

Cheerio!!

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

Intelligence is a hereditary trait, that may explain lower class people having lower intelligence.

And you are still confusing intelligence with knowledge, life experience, book smarts, etc.
Intelligence IS the ability to learn and comprehend. Your intelligence is the same from cradle to grave.

That's YOUR definition.

 

[Tuffdisc]

I'm starting to think it's this place actually.

For once I agree with Zorak :thumbup