Atheists and Hope

[Panacea]

Christianity will go the way of its predecessors - take a good look at the Egyptian civilization, Mesopotamian, Aztec, Mayan, Greek, and Roman religions... Christianity is merely the combination of what came before it. 2000 years isn't much - the Egyptians were around for 5000. Wondering if they're dancing with Ra right now???

This fact just hit me again the other day. Seems like humans get religion wrong far more than they ever have the chance to get it right. How stupid.

 

[The Doc]

Doc - I don't know where you live currently. However, I've been *lucky* enough to live in the Southeastern United States. For six years. In a small town, with an even smaller base (my husband is with the USAF)... we purchased a home and therefore, we were on public record.

I counted two Mormons and one Jehovah's Witness that came to our door. The others??? Baptist. Free-Will Baptist. Southern Baptist. Evangelical. Fundamental. Lots and lots and lots of CHRISTIANS. And not one group (minus the Mormons) were very polite when I told them NICELY "No, thank you". Most of them got pushy and wanted to know if I had found a church, or what church it was. Some told me they would "pray for me" or come check on me - you know, to see if I would "change my mind". Not ONE of these people thought it was wrong or disrespectful to come knocking on MY door and waste MY time. And when I did tell them I didn't believe in anything, that I was atheist?? One lady told me that I was going to hell and another woman wanted to lay her hands on me to get the devil out. And you HONESTLY want to compare how atheists "treat" Christians???

America is a SECULAR GOVERNMENT. All atheists/agnostics/freethinkers and other minority religions want is for Christianity to be separate from Government. I don't want to go to my husband's squadron picnic (when I've been VOLUN-TOLD to go) and have to listen to some blowhard PRAY. I don't have an issue with someone asking for a moment of silence, I have a HUGE ISSUE when someone needs to invoke their version of God during said silence.

And, since you're apparently affiliated with the military, I'm part of a growing group of military members, spouses, and military-affiliated civilians that have started MAAF (Military Atheists Agnostics and Freethinkers). We welcome everyone and anyone who is tired of being subjected to prayers (**Not just CHRISTIAN**) by their peers and commanders.

Christianity will go the way of its predecessors - take a good look at the Egyptian civilization, Mesopotamian, Aztec, Mayan, Greek, and Roman religions... Christianity is merely the combination of what came before it. You want to believe, that's fine. Just quit ramming the religious rod up all our asses while you beat us with thine staff. 2000 years isn't much - the Egyptians were around for 5000. Wondering if they're dancing with Ra right now???

USAF, LOL. Sorry had to get that out of my system.

Throughout my whole life no one has come to my door to advertise religeon aside from Mormons and Jehovas Witness. Im not calling you a liar, just my observations. I am also in the south eastern united states.

Prayer is a part of many military ceremonies i.e. Change of Command, Change of Responisibility, Memorial Service ETC.. No one makes you pray or bow your head. You just need to shut the fuck up while the Chaplain is talking. Thats it.

MAAF? Is this a joke? Im sorry but thats ridiculous. You hate being the subject of prayer? Wheather you believe in God or not, when people pray for you they are trying todo a nice thing. I dont believe in Luck, but when people wish me Good Luck i say Thanks. Though I dont believe in luck, i understand that someone is trying todo something nice and well-wishing me. Before I deployed I have a wierd hippy bhuddist cousin who told me he meditated for my safety. Im not bhuddist, dont believe in it, but i understood he was well wishing me. Those people who pray for you are well wishing you.

 

[alice in chains]

USAF, LOL. Sorry had to get that out of my system.

Throughout my whole life no one has come to my door to advertise religeon aside from Mormons and Jehovas Witness. Im not calling you a liar, just my observations. I am also in the south eastern united states.

Prayer is a part of many military ceremonies i.e. Change of Command, Change of Responisibility, Memorial Service ETC.. No one makes you pray or bow your head. You just need to shut the fuck up while the Chaplain is talking. Thats it.

MAAF? Is this a joke? Im sorry but thats ridiculous. You hate being the subject of prayer? Wheather you believe in God or not, when people pray for you they are trying todo a nice thing. I dont believe in Luck, but when people wish me Good Luck i say Thanks. Though I dont believe in luck, i understand that someone is trying todo something nice and well-wishing me. Before I deployed I have a wierd hippy bhuddist cousin who told me he meditated for my safety. Im not bhuddist, dont believe in it, but i understood he was well wishing me. Those people who pray for you are well wishing you.

Sounds like some hypocritical shit. Let's say I am a Satanist and believe in my mind indulgence is what's best for you. And I said "may Satan be with you". You would appreeciate my intent?

 

[The Doc]

Sounds like some hypocritical shit. Let's say I am a Satanist and believe in my mind indulgence is what's best for you. And I said "may Satan be with you". You would appreeciate my intent?

By saying may satan be with you I am assuming you want bad things to happen to me. Mind Indulgence.. Yeah whatever your taking shit out of context now... If someone says "Im praying for you", "Bhudda be with you", "Good Luck", "May joseph smith keep you safe" ,"Im praying Krishna for your safe return"... I dont believe in luck, bhudda, joseph smith, or krishna but this person is well wishing me. Eventhough I dont believe in those specific people or things, those people are trying to let me know they care for my well-being and are well wishing me.

 

[alice in chains]

By saying may satan be with you I am assuming you want bad things to happen to me. Mind Indulgence.. Yeah whatever your taking shit out of context now... If someone says "Im praying for you", "Bhudda be with you", "Good Luck", "May joseph smith keep you safe" ,"Im praying Krishna for your safe return"... I dont believe in luck, bhudda, joseph smith, or krishna but this person is well wishing me. Eventhough I dont believe in those specific people or things, those people are trying to let me know they care for my well-being and are well wishing me.

So apparently you donnot respect all people. Only ones that you're willing to understand. Gotcha!! case closed.

 

[JuggsBunny]

Wow. Laughing at my husband's service in the Air Force AND insulting a group that was created so that people wouldn't (as you put it in your finely educated Army Bullshit Rhetoric) "need to shut the fuck up while the Chaplain is talking. Thats it." Really??? And what about that Constitution that you've promised to uphold??? How would you feel if the tables were turned and all of a sudden, you had to bow your head and give lip service to an ISLAMIC prayer??? And then, to add insult to injury, some moron told you that YOU "need to shut the fuck up while the Imam is talking"?????? And if you tell me you'd be "okay" with it, I'll call you a liar. You see, many people see your type every single fucking day. And you wouldn't know what to do with yourself unless someone TELLS you what to do. From the Army to Religion - every part of your life is in a pathetic little compartment. How about thinking????? Sorry, if the Army wanted you to have a brain, it would've issued you one.

Take a good look at this link: http://rockbeyondbelief.com/ This is YOUR Army. These are YOUR comrades. They are sick and tired of fighting for the secular rights of others when theirs are trampled on by fine, upstanding soldiers such as yourself. Here's another link - to the organization that I'm part of and that you laughed at: http://militaryatheists.org/ . Take a good look.

People are tired of these so-called Christ followers shoving religion down our throats. We're tired of it in the workplace, we're tired of it during social occasions, and we're tired of asshole bullies like YOU telling us to "shut the fuck up" and take it. Why don't you just get on your knees and "pray" for guidance and listen for "God" to speak to you.

But then again, it's probably wise to mention that everyone kneeling isn't necessarily praying.

 

[The Doc]

So apparently you donnot respect all people. Only ones that you're willing to understand. Gotcha!! case closed.

Im sorry.. but to most people if you said "Satan Be With You" they would think your wishing harm upon them seeing as Satan is seen as an evil figure in a whole lot of religeons.. Regardless your just making ridiculous conclusions now to try and hem me up. Also, If someone did say "Satan Be With you" we would reply IAW COIN OPS saying "Im sorry you feel that way" and move about the Airport, Walmart or whatever.

Wow. Laughing at my husband's service in the Air Force AND insulting a group that was created so that people wouldn't (as you put it in your finely educated Army Bullshit Rhetoric) "need to shut the fuck up while the Chaplain is talking. Thats it." Really??? And what about that Constitution that you've promised to uphold??? How would you feel if the tables were turned and all of a sudden, you had to bow your head and give lip service to an ISLAMIC prayer??? And then, to add insult to injury, some moron told you that YOU "need to shut the fuck up while the Imam is talking"?????? And if you tell me you'd be "okay" with it, I'll call you a liar. You see, many people see your type every single fucking day. And you wouldn't know what to do with yourself unless someone TELLS you what to do. From the Army to Religion - every part of your life is in a pathetic little compartment. How about thinking????? Sorry, if the Army wanted you to have a brain, it would've issued you one.

Take a good look at this link: http://rockbeyondbelief.com/ This is YOUR Army. These are YOUR comrades. They are sick and tired of fighting for the secular rights of others when theirs are trampled on by fine, upstanding soldiers such as yourself. Here's another link - to the organization that I'm part of and that you laughed at: http://militaryatheists.org/ . Take a good look.

People are tired of these so-called Christ followers shoving religion down our throats. We're tired of it in the workplace, we're tired of it during social occasions, and we're tired of asshole bullies like YOU telling us to "shut the fuck up" and take it. Why don't you just get on your knees and "pray" for guidance and listen for "God" to speak to you.

But then again, it's probably wise to mention that everyone kneeling isn't necessarily praying.

Sorry, but thats the military. If your in any formation your going to shut the fuck up while anyone standing in front of it is talking. The Commander, an Awardee, the platoon seargent, chaplain, anybody. Thats the military. If you dont like it, dont re-enlist. If our Chaplain happened to be a Muslim Imam again I would bow my head and shut the fuck up because those are my orders. Close your eyes and bow your head is an order just like "Left Face", "About Face" or "Present Arms". No one is makes you pray as you bow your head or close your eyes. You dont have to believe what they are saying or praying for either. My Seargent makes me sweep the floor, eventhough I dont believe its dirty I sweep it anyways. Its my orders. Oh also, As Servicemen/servicewomen we sign away many of our constitutional right and we are officially "Government Property". If someone makes you a civilian stand in a formation and bow your head to pray then theres a real constitutional issue.

I repeat also. LOL @ USAF.

 

[alice in chains]

I agree with Juggs that you donnot have the capability of thinking for yourself and hide behind your military culture bullshit. You're not worth getting angry at because you're incorrigible.

 

[JuggsBunny]

Funny, my Lt. Col. husband doesn't make people pray in his office. He doesn't have any type of prayer when he holds a Commander's Call. He's not required to. However, other Commander's do - because they are religious assholes who feel compelled to make everyone do something that is completely unnecessary. It is a Constitutional issue when spouses and civilians are required to bow their heads to the person persisting with a Christian prayer - that's the fucking point I'm trying to make. Obviously, you've had too much to worry about (this is my rifle, this is my gun - one is for fighting, one is for fun!) and this discussion is entirely over your head.

Eventually, the Chaplain Corp will end up being phased out of the military - as it is nothing more than a waste of money - because there are other SECULAR social programs on base.

And I understand why you're Army - it's difficult to get an ASVAB score high enough to get into the Air Force!!! :24:

 

[The Doc]

I agree with Juggs that you donnot have the capability of thinking for yourself and hide behind your military culture bullshit. You're not worth getting angry at because you're incorrigible.

No there is no military culture. Its do what your told or we will give you UCMJ. Dont want to bow your head? Disobeying the order of a Commisioned/Non-Commisioned Officer punishable by Company Grade Article 15. Want to talk while in formation? Summarized Article 15. Want to talk while the Chaplains Talking? You just dis-respected a Commisioned officer theres a Field Grade Article 15.

Thats just the way it is. As a civilian everything is about 'You' and 'Your Rights'. When you join the military its no longer about 'You' its about 'Us'. We become a group and its about the Good of the group. Every Soldier is told on their first day of in processing at fort benning "Sit down and shut the fuck up. Your not apart of a Democracy anymore, you just defend one" This means that you now fall under the Uniformed Code Of Military Justice which takes away from constitutional rights from service members.

 

[alice in chains]

he's a total fucking hypocrite. why is there an issue separating church from state? it's completely out of their RIGHTFUL entitlements.

 

[alice in chains]

No there is no military culture. Its do what your told or we will give you UCMJ. Dont want to bow your head? Disobeying the order of a Commisioned/Non-Commisioned Officer punishable by Company Grade Article 15. Want to talk while in formation? Summarized Article 15. Want to talk while the Chaplains Talking? You just dis-respected a Commisioned officer theres a Field Grade Article 15.

Thats just the way it is. As a civilian everything is about 'You' and 'Your Rights'. When you join the military its no longer about 'You' its about 'Us'. We become a group and its about the Good of the group. Every Soldier is told on their first day of in processing at fort benning "Sit down and shut the fuck up. Your not apart of a Democracy anymore, you just defend one" This means that you now fall under the Uniformed Code Of Military Justice which takes away from constitutional rights from service members.

That's the exact reason I won't join the military. Because I have to obey a bunch of stupid mother fuckers who donnot have the right to question.

 

[The Doc]

Funny, my Lt. Col. husband doesn't make people pray in his office. He doesn't have any type of prayer when he holds a Commander's Call. He's not required to. However, other Commander's do - because they are religious assholes who feel compelled to make everyone do something that is completely unnecessary. It is a Constitutional issue when spouses and civilians are required to bow their heads to the person persisting with a Christian prayer - that's the fucking point I'm trying to make. Obviously, you've had too much to worry about (this is my rifle, this is my gun - one is for fighting, one is for fun!) and this discussion is entirely over your head.

Eventually, the Chaplain Corp will end up being phased out of the military - as it is nothing more than a waste of money - because there are other SECULAR social programs on base.

And I understand why you're Army - it's difficult to get an ASVAB score high enough to get into the Air Force!!! :24:

Again, I agree if someone makes you bow your head and pray theres an issue...if your a civilian.. if your a service member its DandC. Maybe in the airforce its optional but in the Army, every Battalion has its own Chaplain and it is specifically his Job to be at every function.

The chaplain corpse will not be phased out.... maybe in the airforce.. Chaplains sole jobs arent to just pray at ceremonies. They provide lots of counseling and support, most of it is non-religous. Our chaplain has talked many soldiers out of suicide. The Chaplain also looks out so that all the soldiers in his battalion get their religeous needs met. Wheather your catholic, Hindu, Muslim, or Pagan its his job to make sure you have the right to get to your service. Regardless of your chaplains beliefs if he can not arrange to get you to your specific religous service he will provide it for you. Even if its him on the phone with a Pagan or Muslim Chaplain repeating what they say.

I actually got a high ASVAB score. I got 120 GT. I chose the Army because I wanted to fight. I was 19 years old and a thrill seeker. Sitting behind the desk as an airmen pushing papers isnt thrilling to me. Growing up I used to watch movies like band of brothers and those soldiers were my heroes. I especially looked up to Doc Rowe, their medic, who took care of all the soldiers. I chose the Job of Medic because Soldiers have been my heroes since I was a child and what better Job then to take care of them. I have Infantrymen and Cavalry scouts who had rich families and scored even higher then me on the ASVAB but picked "Grunt/Stupid" job like Infantry, Cavalry Scout, Mortarmen etc... due to the same thing. They could have been intel analysts, Electronic Warfare, Medics, OR Techs, UAV Pilots but they just wanted to be infantry and on the front lines for the adventure portion.

 

[The Doc]

That's the exact reason I won't join the military. Because I have to obey a bunch of stupid mother fuckers who donnot have the right to question.

You hit the nail on the head. I agree with you. trust me.

 

[JuggsBunny]

And you sound like you hate the Constitution that you are sworn to uphold. And you also sound resentful of those you are fighting for. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but the taxpayer does pay your salary.

I guess I'm just utterly disgusted because my husband was commissioned in 1994 and I've never heard those pissant excuses out of his mouth. And I'm very familiar with the UCMJ... it appears that you're hiding behind that.

The question really is - does Christian prayer belong in a military that is supposed to be secular, in a nation which was formed to be secular?? ​

 

[JuggsBunny]

Anyhow, whatever. I highly doubt that you read the links I provided and you've already shown your distain and scorn for those not in the Army. This is abso-fucking-loutely a waste of my time. Cheers!!!!

 

[The Doc]

And you sound like you hate the Constitution that you are sworn to uphold. And you also sound resentful of those you are fighting for. I know it's a hard pill to swallow, but the taxpayer does pay your salary.

I guess I'm just utterly disgusted because my husband was commissioned in 1994 and I've never heard those pissant excuses out of his mouth. And I'm very familiar with the UCMJ... it appears that you're hiding behind that.

The question really is - does Christian prayer belong in a military that is supposed to be secular, in a nation which was formed to be secular?? ​

I dont hate the constitution. I never said that. I just dont fall under it for the next year and a half I have in the Army. Im not resentful of the American People. No clue where your getting theese conclusions from. What escuses am I hiding behind BTW?

If your familiar with the UCMJ we wouldent be having this argument. You would understand how certain things are disrespect and disobeying. I am not a politician, I am a soldier. I dont make the rules, or change them. I just follow them. Thats my job.

We are a uniformed fighting force, 1 team 1 fight. If one guy doesnt show up to work wearing the jacket we were all told to wear then none of us get to wear a jacket and we will all freeze together. We suffer for one another. We enjoy vistory together, and we suffer defeat together. Everything in the UCMJ is there for a reason. From Adultry to non-judicial punishment.

 

[The Doc]

Anyhow, whatever. I highly doubt that you read the links I provided and you've already shown your distain and scorn for those not in the Army. This is abso-fucking-loutely a waste of my time. Cheers!!!!

Ok good your cedeing out the argument

 

[Panacea]

Stupid is an unstoppable force, it's best to let it roll off the cliff on its own

 

[JuggsBunny]

Have fun arguing with yourself!! And I've ceded to absolutely nothing except for your inability to understand my argument. Have a great time playing by your lonesome. LOL.