Atheists and Hope

[alice in chains]

As I've been told, Atheists are people who follow life by what they see and can prove. No faith in religion and to follow by their earthly senses.

Do Atheists have hope? If life is at a shitty circumstance, there is no one or anything to blame but life itself (or oneself if that's how it's perceived).

Isn't hope a product of religion and something that cannot be touched?

 

[Minor Axis]

Do Atheists have hope? If life is at a shitty circumstance, there is no one or anything to blame but life itself (or oneself if that's how it's perceived).

Isn't hope a product of religion and something that cannot be touched?

You can always hope that luck or circumstances will turn your way and I imagine in most cases you can do something about your situation. However the worst would be religious and feel that God has done you wrong... or what did you do to get on his shit list??

 

[HK]

Haha! Hope is definitely not a product of religion.


Hope is just the desire for a particular outcome. I hope that my bus will come on time, that it won't snow tomorrow, that I'll be able to make my rent next month. None of those things require divine intervention.


If your life is shit, why would you need someone to blame anyway? It's either your fault or someone else's fault it's shit - maybe you showed up late to work too many times and got fired, maybe you should have worn a condom, maybe you shouldn't have had that extra beer before getting in the car. Whatever. Whether your life is good or bad is a combination of your own efforts, and a degree of luck and circumstance.

 

[JuggsBunny]

Hope is not a singular product of religion.

Most of the atheists that I know (to include myself) hold ourselves responsible for our own happiness. If I did something to fuck up my life, I own it. And then I'll try to rectify the situation.

 

[HK]

Having faith in a higher power is very different to simply feeling emotions. We can't technically touch things like 'love' or 'sadness', but we all feel them, we all know that they exist.


To try and use the rationale that because some things exist that can't be 'seen' means anything that can't be seen might exist is flawed, and leads directly into the hands of people who will then say 'well there could be a flying spaghetti monster, you can't see it'.


Not to mention, emotions are chemical and can be 'seen' on a brain scan.

 

[Panacea]

Hope is not a singular product of religion.

Most of the atheists that I know (to include myself) hold ourselves responsible for our own happiness. If I did something to fuck up my life, I own it. And then I'll try to rectify the situation.

Ummm, yep. This.
Even kids are taught to blame themselves when Santa doesn't bring them the toy they wanted.

 

[alice in chains]

I understand that.

I suppose I just donnot see Atheism in it's purest sense if people hold on to hope. It either is or it is not. Hope implies desiring one thing over another. Why desire something that is not? Take life exactly as it is given to you with content or else there is something else involved, maybe emotions, yes, but what drives those emotions? There is a need in the brain for it and it could continue to be broken down from there.

But those are just my thoughts, and I understand all of yours.

 

[Panacea]

I think you may be confusing atheism with a specific life philosophy, like stoicism or something similar where the individual is expected to be cut off from emotional views of life (like hope and faith)? That's not atheism; it's simply a lack of belief in god. Hope and faith transcend religion/spirituality and can exist independent of them both, despite being abstract.

 

[alice in chains]

Possibly, I just donnot see what hope and faith has to do with seeing reality as it is. There may be no belief directly in God, but believing in faith and hope is more than reality as it lies.

Just my view.

 

[Panacea]

I see. Atheists are often quite capable of abstract thinking, just not 'magical' thinking, I suppose. I do agree atheists may be more likely to use the scientific method to develop an understanding on things IN reality, but hope is just a wish I think. I'd say you have a point if faith were the feeling in question, because faith requires claiming to know something that can't be known immediately. Atheists probably do less of this than believers, but all humans rely on faith for certain things like love.

 

[BornReady]

I have more hope for humanity as an atheist than I had as a Christian. As a Christian, I bought into the original sin BS. That is, humans are naturally degenerate. Apart from God there is no hope for humanity. But even with God there isn't much hope for most of us because we are rebellious. That is a pretty bleak view. I became a humanist not long after becoming an atheist. And that has given me much more faith in humanity and hope for a better world.

 

[Tim]

Possibly, I just donnot see what hope and faith has to do with seeing reality as it is. There may be no belief directly in God, but believing in faith and hope is more than reality as it lies.

Just my view.

I'm not sure what you are describing, but you aren't describing atheism. Atheists don't just believe in what they can see and prove exists.
I'm not sure why you believe this, but it isn't the case at all... not even close

 

[The Doc]

every aethiest i have met has dedicated their life toward disproving God. Its like they have to convince themselvs..

 

[JuggsBunny]

every aethiest i have met has dedicated their life toward disproving God. Its like they have to convince themselvs..

And many Christians that I've met have gone far above and beyond to shove Jesus and God and their shitty religious philosophies down my fucking throat. I've yet to do that to anyone.

When was the last time you had an atheist knocking at your front door on a Saturday, before 10:00 AM???

Exactly. I rest my case.

 

[Panacea]

A striking number of the religious polemicists can't seem to spell atheist I suppose it's part of their act. This was a new low, however.

Go online in a religious debate section of a forum and say "atheists debate about god" ya, they would debate religion in a religious debate forum. But drawing logical conclusions is clearly not a strength of some people.

Since we don't exist in mass quantities, most of the religiously encapsulated don't actually know enough atheists in real life to have a super good idea of what they're like from a sociological perspective.

I've dedicated my life to physical and emotional improvement and education...I devote a limited amount of energy to things as ultimately pointless as the never ending squabble over which book character created and runs the world.

 

[The Doc]

And many Christians that I've met have gone far above and beyond to shove Jesus and God and their shitty religious philosophies down my fucking throat. I've yet to do that to anyone.

When was the last time you had an atheist knocking at your front door on a Saturday, before 10:00 AM???

Exactly. I rest my case.

We dont consider jehovas witnesses and Mormons as christians... but im sure were all the same to you. Your right, many christians do shove things down non-christians throat. But I know myself and many others who are christians dont do that. There is a real religeous double standard. You can shit talk my beliefs and scream aethiesm at the top of your lungs and its ok. If i talk about God, its wrong.

 

[alice in chains]

Just so you know, I'm not a Christian. I'm more on the Atheists side than I am a Christian's...just liking to dig deep is all.

 

[alice in chains]

We dont consider jehovas witnesses and Mormons as christians... but im sure were all the same to you. Your right, many christians do shove things down non-christians throat. But I know myself and many others who are christians dont do that. There is a real religeous double standard. You can shit talk my beliefs and scream aethiesm at the top of your lungs and its ok. If i talk about God, its wrong.

I donnot consider those people Christians either. My issue is that pure Christians actually believe non-believers will go to hell, and that pisses me the fuck off. It's their certainty and confidence that convinces them they have no NEED to persecute society, rather than a lack of DESIRE to persecute society.

 

[The Doc]

And many Christians that I've met have gone far above and beyond to shove Jesus and God and their shitty religious philosophies down my fucking throat. I've yet to do that to anyone.

When was the last time you had an atheist knocking at your front door on a Saturday, before 10:00 AM???

Exactly. I rest my case.

Your lumping mormons and jehovas in with Christians...... We will debate that elsewhere...

I dont force my beliefs on anyone, ever. Nor do most of the christians I know.. but they do exist. In my personal life though, I have never met a respectful Atheist. All of them run around insulting everything about religeon. Like how Panaca refers to "Book Characters" controlling the world. I know better then to stoop to name calling and stuff like that. There is a double standard nowdays where You can run around insulting anyone beliefs you want and its OK, but if I utter the word God I am automatically in the wrong. I could care less if you attack Christianity or dont believe in it. Christianity has survived almost 2012 years and is still running Very Very strong.

 

[JuggsBunny]

Doc - I don't know where you live currently. However, I've been *lucky* enough to live in the Southeastern United States. For six years. In a small town, with an even smaller base (my husband is with the USAF)... we purchased a home and therefore, we were on public record.

I counted two Mormons and one Jehovah's Witness that came to our door. The others??? Baptist. Free-Will Baptist. Southern Baptist. Evangelical. Fundamental. Lots and lots and lots of CHRISTIANS. And not one group (minus the Mormons) were very polite when I told them NICELY "No, thank you". Most of them got pushy and wanted to know if I had found a church, or what church it was. Some told me they would "pray for me" or come check on me - you know, to see if I would "change my mind". Not ONE of these people thought it was wrong or disrespectful to come knocking on MY door and waste MY time. And when I did tell them I didn't believe in anything, that I was atheist?? One lady told me that I was going to hell and another woman wanted to lay her hands on me to get the devil out. And you HONESTLY want to compare how atheists "treat" Christians???

America is a SECULAR GOVERNMENT. All atheists/agnostics/freethinkers and other minority religions want is for Christianity to be separate from Government. I don't want to go to my husband's squadron picnic (when I've been VOLUN-TOLD to go) and have to listen to some blowhard PRAY. I don't have an issue with someone asking for a moment of silence, I have a HUGE ISSUE when someone needs to invoke their version of God during said silence.

And, since you're apparently affiliated with the military, I'm part of a growing group of military members, spouses, and military-affiliated civilians that have started MAAF (Military Atheists Agnostics and Freethinkers). We welcome everyone and anyone who is tired of being subjected to prayers (**Not just CHRISTIAN**) by their peers and commanders.

Christianity will go the way of its predecessors - take a good look at the Egyptian civilization, Mesopotamian, Aztec, Mayan, Greek, and Roman religions... Christianity is merely the combination of what came before it. You want to believe, that's fine. Just quit ramming the religious rod up all our asses while you beat us with thine staff. 2000 years isn't much - the Egyptians were around for 5000. Wondering if they're dancing with Ra right now???