American capitalism gone with a whimper

[kelvin070]

Get your "think-tanks" together and do whats best for the country be it capitalist or socialist

 

[kelvin070]

Communist china's economy is set to grow by 8% this year and capitalist india's is set to grow by 6% this year. It is ironic that cumminist china is the largest holder of capitalist USA's debt.

 

[Alien Allen]

Well Japan was a powerhouse also in the 80's and look at their problems since.

China will collapse. If you think that is a model for how to do things then I think you will be proven wrong. They are a mixed bag with an authoritarian control. They will have chaos in the internet age. I never knew until a few months ago that a citizen there could not move about the country. They had a a system like a Visa where you had to get approval to go to other places.

 

[Accountable]

Communist china's economy is set to grow by 8% this year and capitalist india's is set to grow by 6% this year. It is ironic that cumminist china is the largest holder of capitalist USA's debt.

How's Singapore hangin'?

 

[kelvin070]

How's Singapore hangin'?

Singapore's economy is export based and is poised for a negative growth of 6.5% this year. The region's economy will pick up in mid 2010 by which time people in USA will start spending again beyond their means. Basically we are dependent on your consumption. So start spending again so that we can buy your Boeings. If you guys dont spend then we sink with you.

 

[kelvin070]

Well Japan was a powerhouse also in the 80's and look at their problems since.

China will collapse. If you think that is a model for how to do things then I think you will be proven wrong. They are a mixed bag with an authoritarian control. They will have chaos in the internet age. I never knew until a few months ago that a citizen there could not move about the country. They had a a system like a Visa where you had to get approval to go to other places.

Some 6 months ago, in one of my postings here I stated that Detroit will collapse within this year but you and your long time associate said I was talking crap. While US auto makers are shutting down plants in USA now the Japanese auto makers are opening new plants in USA. If the japanese can do it why can't you.
I am not suggesting that china is a model. The point is watever model you have get the right people to manage and get things going right the first time round.
You got to understand that china has a huge population and people are flocking into the main cities like Beijing and Shanghai in search of jobs. So the Visa system is to prevent the cities from being overcrowded. Some other countries like Indonesia has also adopted the system.
Get rid of all the Sarah Palin kind of people - this point is abt the right people to manage.

 

[Tangerine]

This whole ball was started under a Republican administration. Well, some w/Clinton & DaddyBush, but we sure didn't see the Republicans put on the brakes did we?

Horseshit.

The whole ball started in the 70's and has been through countless different admistrations (of both parties) and many different version of Congress (under control of both parties at various time.)

Both parties are equally to blame for the current state of affairs. Neither has EVER done anything to turn the tide.

 

[Alien Allen]

Horseshit.

The whole ball started in the 70's and has been through countless different admistrations (of both parties) and many different version of Congress (under control of both parties at various time.)

Both parties are equally to blame for the current state of affairs. Neither has EVER done anything to turn the tide.

Bingo give this man the prize

Both parties suck

They are all about maintaining control and could care less about anything but getting re elected.

It starts at the local level. By the time they get to the state Capitol and beyond they are owned. Bought and paid for and abiding only to the money sources that get them elected.

 

[Accountable]

Horseshit.

The whole ball started in the 70's and has been through countless different admistrations (of both parties) and many different version of Congress (under control of both parties at various time.)

Both parties are equally to blame for the current state of affairs. Neither has EVER done anything to turn the tide.

Yup! :nod: If anything, they pushed the tide. We're going exactly where they want us to go.

 

[MoonOwl]

I didn't mean to just stop at DaddyBush. It goes further back than that. Many decades. Even Lincoln was quoted warning about the corporations and bankers and the decimation of 'democracy'.. This has been going on slowly. Bit by bit. Decade by decade. Slow enough so that we sheeps don't really notice much. As I said above, we're happily distracted by manufactured distractions and putting food on our tables. They count on that. But, I'm olde, tired and cynical and wtf do I know? Squat!:cool

MO

I'll bring the rest of this forward since Tangerine quoted & commented on part of my response but this takes it further back.

As for the 70's, my Grandmother would agree. She was very worried when 'De-Regulation' started happening. She predicted it to be the ruin of the USA. Apparently her fears were spot-on as only a few decades later, here we are.

Yup! :nod: If anything, they pushed the tide. We're going exactly where they want us to go.

True. Both sides are sold-out. Completely. Or, you can count on one hand for each party who is not. How sad is that?

I still think WePeeps should form a PAC and fund it higher than any other. Play w/in the system the corrupt have made. Until we throw out electronic voting and go back to counties tabulating votes and not corporations. I won't hold my breath there.

MO

 

[MoonOwl]

One more thing... Back in the 40's & 50's (until he passed) my Grandfather was in the 90% tax-bracket. Like most people he hated to pay taxes, but on the flip he was proud that he was able to contribute so much to 'the coffers'. His small part helped to make America stronger. I'm glad neither of my Grandparents lived to see where we are today. I can just imagine what he'd think in this age of taking jobs overseas to garner more profits. The 'greed at all costs' mentality. It would probably kill both of them again.

We have the best politicians money can buy. Too bad it isn't we taxpayers doing the buying.

 

[Tangerine]

One more thing... Back in the 40's & 50's (until he passed) my Grandfather was in the 90% tax-bracket. Like most people he hated to pay taxes, but on the flip he was proud that he was able to contribute so much to 'the coffers'. His small part helped to make America stronger. I'm glad neither of my Grandparents lived to see where we are today. I can just imagine what he'd think in this age of taking jobs overseas to garner more profits. The 'greed at all costs' mentality. It would probably kill both of them again.

We have the best politicians money can buy. Too bad it isn't we taxpayers doing the buying.

I have only one issue with this line of thinking.

When people speak of "garnering more profits" - they make it sound like something evil. Unfortunately, we all want the economy to grow. We all want to make more money. We all want to be able to buy and spend with a little more comfort. We'd all like to own more things like a home, and be in less or no debt. Unfortunately, NONE of these things can happen if businesses aren't profitable. It bothers me when people believe that "profits" only exist in the form of a fat paycheck given to some asshole in a business suit. In reality, profits = expanding operations, opening new offices or plants, hiring new employees, reasearching new innovations and technologies, etc. When we start deciding that it's somehow bad to profit, we have decided that our entire system is bad.

 

[MoonOwl]

Did I say profiting is bad? No. But diminishing America for the sake of profiting is bad. We can see right now where that has led us. Perhaps that's why those regulations were put in place to begin with? To keep America strong. Not sell her out to the highest bidder.

 

[Alien Allen]

One more thing... Back in the 40's & 50's (until he passed) my Grandfather was in the 90% tax-bracket. Like most people he hated to pay taxes, but on the flip he was proud that he was able to contribute so much to 'the coffers'. His small part helped to make America stronger. I'm glad neither of my Grandparents lived to see where we are today. I can just imagine what he'd think in this age of taking jobs overseas to garner more profits. The 'greed at all costs' mentality. It would probably kill both of them again.

We have the best politicians money can buy. Too bad it isn't we taxpayers doing the buying.

and do you really think that he gave 90% of his earnings to the govt?

Not a chance. If he made that much money to be in that bracket he had a ton or write offs that brought him down to the same level we currently have give or take.

The elderly can whine all they like about how much they contributed and how greedy we now are. They should take a look in the mirror because they are sucking Social Security dry. The people now in their 80's put in a fraction of the money which they have got in SS payments.

This country is in deep, deep shit and led by a moron who has not a clue. We have a SS system that is a ponzi scheme and not sustainable and now he saddles us with quadruple the debt from what we had a year ago for the upcoming budget and unless somebody grown up wakes up the idiots in DC there will be another 11 trillion pissed away over the next 10 years.

Ron Paul should have been elected. he was the only one that would have addressed this. As usual we go for the quick fix that is a finger in the dyke instead of doing it the painful way and making the hard choices and spending wisely. We are going to eventually drown because that finger in the dyke will not work.

 

[MoonOwl]

and do you really think that he gave 90% of his earnings to the govt?

Not a chance. If he made that much money to be in that bracket he had a ton or write offs that brought him down to the same level we currently have give or take.

The elderly can whine all they like about how much they contributed and how greedy we now are. They should take a look in the mirror because they are sucking Social Security dry. The people now in their 80's put in a fraction of the money which they have got in SS payments.

This country is in deep, deep shit and led by a moron who has not a clue. We have a SS system that is a ponzi scheme and not sustainable and now he saddles us with quadruple the debt from what we had a year ago for the upcoming budget and unless somebody grown up wakes up the idiots in DC there will be another 11 trillion pissed away over the next 10 years.

Ron Paul should have been elected. he was the only one that would have addressed this. As usual we go for the quick fix that is a finger in the dyke instead of doing it the painful way and making the hard choices and spending wisely. We are going to eventually drown because that finger in the dyke will not work.

True... Also, some say the Federal Reserve is the biggest Ponzi of them all.

As for my Grandfather and write-offs, I'm sure he did. He had great accountants. My point was the thinking back then was keeping our nation strong. Not selling it off.

As I am a PeaBrain, I have pondered our situation frequently. Having allowed ourselves to be put up shits creek w/out a paddle - hehehehehehehe.... or our fingers in the dyke (to the tune of at least $100k per taxpayer so far), what is the real, intelligent, solution to the mess we are in. It's too great of a problem for little ole me to see a clear path out.

I have the thought for a new thread that I'd love to have y'alls opinions on so I stay on topic here...

MO

*here's a link

http://www.offtopicz.net/46799-if-you-were-president.html

 

[kelvin070]

There are people in this forum who are claiming US is the richest country in this world. I tried to explain that absolute GDP figures are meaningless. I agree SS system is unsustainable in the long run. How does people in other developed countries survive without SS and pensions? We dont have both but we have scheme where a percentage of our salaries are deducted every month to provide for our old age and we have the option to convert them into annuty.

 

[Alien Allen]

Kelivin you hate the US and hate capitalism. That renders your opinion about our wealth meaningless.

 

[kelvin070]

Kelivin you hate the US and hate capitalism. That renders your opinion about our wealth meaningless.

LMAO, never. We are an ally of US in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have troops there too. What good is a forum if everybody speaks in favour of US. I just happen to be not afraid of speaking my mind and I am not a "yes" man.

 

[Alien Allen]

LMAO, never. We are an ally of US in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have troops there too. What good is a forum if everybody speaks in favour of US. I just happen to be not afraid of speaking my mind and I am not a "yes" man.

Your words betray you. Maybe hate was the wrong word.

How about loathe

By the way I never expect anybody to be a yes person or others to accept the US without questioning. I would not respect them if they were like that. The same as I have no respect for people that blindly follow a political party.

And cut and pasting which you do a lot is not really speaking your own mind

Maybe I should have said your cut and pastes betray you

 

[kelvin070]

I just checked Merriam-Webster online for loathe. Its same meaning as hate. Talking abt "cut and paste' this very topic is a 'cut and paste' one. Look at how a 'cut and past' article stimulates your thinking.