AMERICA: NO 1 WAR MONGER.....

[Alien Allen]

You don't seem to respect your 'heritage'...I doubt if you have any

just because we have stupid voters does not mean I disrespect my heritage. I admit when we fuck up. You guys just bury your head in the sand.

 

[Stone]

just because we have stupid voters does not mean I disrespect my heritage. I admit when we fuck up. You guys just bury your head in the sand.

I think we're reading a lot of Islamic double speak in this forum.
Islamic claim read in this forum.......when in Rome, do as Romans do ( to justify their abusive nature if westerners were to live in one of their nations)......
other Islamic claim read in this forum, Islam won't give up it's culture no matter where they live ( meaning westerners have to put up with their shit....terrorism, wife beating, wife killing, honor killing and of all things come to light recently, cannibalism).

Let the denials begin ......mazHur, you're up.

 

[mazHur]

Men's motions are only going to get you stoned, mazHur.......or.... are you already stoned?

Obviously you are done!! RIP

 

[mazHur]

I think we're reading a lot of Islamic double speak in this forum.
Islamic claim read in this forum.......when in Rome, do as Romans do ( to justify their abusive nature if westerners were to live in one of their nations)......
other Islamic claim read in this forum, Islam won't give up it's culture no matter where they live ( meaning westerners have to put up with their shit....terrorism, wife beating, wife killing, honor killing and of all things come to light recently, cannibalism).

Let the denials begin ......mazHur, you're up.

yours is all baloney!! What do you expect me to do if i happen to live in Canada or america? Nothing else but to abide by their laws.....while keeping in tact my religion and culture. \\ You too are expected to do the same if you lived in some other country such as Pakistan ,Saudia, Japan ,China or England.


You arguments are foolish,.........
Muslims don't want you to do what they do but you have NO right to force them to tow your line as well.

 

[Stone]

yours is all baloney!! What do you expect me to do if i happen to live in Canada or america? Nothing else but to abide by their laws.....while keeping in tact my religion and culture. \\ You too are expected to do the same if you lived in some other country such as Pakistan ,Saudia, Japan ,China or England.


You arguments are foolish,.........
Muslims don't want you to do what they do but you have NO right to force them to tow your line as well.

You simply have no credibility on the topic, mazHur......too much sophistry, too many contradictions.

 

[Stone]

Obviously you are done!! RIP

And yet you bothered to reply to my post anyway

Is this the only debate forum you've ever participated in?

 

[Alien Allen]

Bullshit

Muslims want everybody to become Muslims. They are the current nasty religion. Christians and Jew had their moment in the sun too back in the day.

Glad to see Cameron at least gets it and is not afraid to speak out.

 

[The Man]

yours is all baloney!! What do you expect me to do if i happen to live in Canada or america? Nothing else but to abide by their laws.....while keeping in tact my religion and culture. \\ You too are expected to do the same if you lived in some other country such as Pakistan ,Saudia, Japan ,China or England.


You arguments are foolish,.........
Muslims don't want you to do what they do but you have NO right to force them to tow your line as well.

Poppy cock...crosses bibles and such are conficated upon entry to SA for example
There are no go zones in parts of europe where sharia is the law..as the muslims rioted until they got thier way.
You cant bullshit us maz...we americans are educated in regard to religous matters across the globe.

 

[Stone]

Bullshit

Muslims want everybody to become Muslims. They are the current nasty religion. Christians and Jew had their moment in the sun too back in the day.

Glad to see Cameron at least gets it and is not afraid to speak out.

More of a 'demand' than a 'want'.

Where the West was able to throw off the worst of Catholicism and struggle to win a freedom of open expression and learning, Islam is merely further entrenched in religious tyranny and thought control.

One of the hazards we face in the US is not just from Islamicists. The extreme fundamentalist right wing is attempting to push our society in the same direction.
Just as Islam eventually rejected the scientific and scholarly advances in their 'Golden Age', so does the radical Christian fundamentalist in the US.
Evolution, origin of life, big bang theory and the sciences that correspond to their studies are all under attack by these radicals as they try to dominate our public school systems.
We should take a lesson from the Arab 'Golden Age' and not let ourselves fall back into the ignorance of the Dark Ages as they have.

 

[Stone]

..........................


You arguments are foolish,.........
Muslims don't want you to do what they do but you have NO right to force them to tow your line as well.

Foolish?
Here you are again claiming Muslims do not have to comply with the customs and laws of countries they live in as immigrants or visitors, all the while claiming 'when in Rome, do as Romans do'.

What a hypocrite you are.


It's become obvious terrorists, especially Taliban and al Qaeda, along with your government invited a war with the western world and now it's in your backyard.
And by extension, if your nation hadn't been so deceitful, logically, Bush probably wouldn't have had the rationale nor the backing of the US public, to invade Iraq.

So let the denials begin.........you're up mazHur.

 

[mazHur]

You simply have no credibility on the topic, mazHur......too much sophistry, too many contradictions.

You are NO authority, no one need a certificate from you!

 

[mazHur]

Bullshit

Muslims want everybody to become Muslims. They are the current nasty religion. Christians and Jew had their moment in the sun too back in the day.

Glad to see Cameron at least gets it and is not afraid to speak out.

Like the Christian missionaries Muslims too have missionaries....
U.S wants its New World Order to be enforced on the world,,,,,,why shouldn't others be prevented from doing theirs??

Nasty religion? what seems nasty to you about it??

 

[mazHur]

Foolish?
Here you are again claiming Muslims do not have to comply with the customs and laws of countries they live in as immigrants or visitors, all the while claiming 'when in Rome, do as Romans do'.

What a hypocrite you are.


It's become obvious terrorists, especially Taliban and al Qaeda, along with your government invited a war with the western world and now it's in your backyard.
And by extension, if your nation hadn't been so deceitful, logically, Bush probably wouldn't have had the rationale nor the backing of the US public, to invade Iraq.

So let the denials begin.........you're up mazHur.

Poor soul that you are! Terrorists? I don't know what you are talking about? It's all repetition and rhetoric you are bent upon....

If it be taken for granted 'it's our war then what the hell were/are you and your allies doing here?? Talk sense otherwise I will quote from your own think tanks and you will scream reading their stuff.

 

[mazHur]

More of a 'demand' than a 'want'.

Where the West was able to throw off the worst of Catholicism and struggle to win a freedom of open expression and learning, Islam is merely further entrenched in religious tyranny and thought control.

One of the hazards we face in the US is not just from Islamicists. The extreme fundamentalist right wing is attempting to push our society in the same direction.
Just as Islam eventually rejected the scientific and scholarly advances in their 'Golden Age', so does the radical Christian fundamentalist in the US.
Evolution, origin of life, big bang theory and the sciences that correspond to their studies are all under attack by these radicals as they try to dominate our public school systems.
We should take a lesson from the Arab 'Golden Age' and not let ourselves fall back into the ignorance of the Dark Ages as they have.

'''
Just as Islam eventually rejected the scientific and scholarly advances in their 'Golden Age',''..............this is simply bullshit. A poor corollary of your whims.
Islam never impedes learning,,,

All Christians are not bad,,,,only deviates are. Who are to blame then> ,,,the Creationists or the Evolutionists? Would you call the Creationists as 'terrorists'??
If so more than half the Americans you would be blaming as terrorists and that should be shameful calling them as such.

 

[Stone]

'''
Just as Islam eventually rejected the scientific and scholarly advances in their 'Golden Age',''..............this is simply bullshit. A poor corollary of your whims.
Islam never impedes learning,,,

All Christians are not bad,,,,only deviates are. Who are to blame then> ,,,the Creationists or the Evolutionists? Would you call the Creationists as 'terrorists'??
If so more than half the Americans you would be blaming as terrorists and that should be shameful calling them as such.

What did I tell you about 'sophistry'?
You just aren't any good at it, mazHur.

Islam never impedes learning

I suggest you review the claims you've posted and the rebuttals that proved you wrong.
Your culture is a giant religious theocracy that attempts to control all aspects of your lives as a means and insurance of retaining it's own power/power base.
Christians ( Catholics ) also did that in past history as I mentioned. However, the western mind set was obviously stronger than your culture's and achieved hard fought freedoms over time.
Your culture has simply become intellectually lazy over time. Your glory days are long gone.

All Christians are not bad,,,,only deviates are. Who are to blame then> ,,,the Creationists or the Evolutionists?

Blame for what?
If it's the restriction and destruction of knowledge, historically, it's been radical fundamentalists that demand their religious interpretations prevail.

If so more than half the Americans you would be blaming as terrorists and that should be shameful calling them as such.

You are confused. Radical Christian fundamentalists are not a majority of the US. But they have had influence disproportional to their numbers.

You should also be aware that it was the fundamentalist element of Christianity in the US that called for war in the Middle East on religious arguments.
The late Jerry Falwell was active in such arguments such as:
http://www.wnd.com/2004/01/23022/
Worse was seen from Pentecostal fundamentalists such as Irvin Baxter :
http://www.endtime.com/islam/
(That's a more recent link, earlier ones after 911 were a lot more poisonous)
He wants to kill you.
Now, Irvin is a fundamentalist/creationist. I'm a believer in God, but I acknowledge reality and evolution.

Which one would you rather co-exist with? The one that argues with you, or the one determined to kill you?

Are all Christian creationists bad? No. But the radical Christian fundamentalist hates your guts on religious grounds and wants to do bad things to you. Just as elements in Islam want to do bad things to the west.


BTW, the US is not a Christian nation, it's a nation of many Christians.....there is a difference.

 

[mazHur]

What did I tell you about 'sophistry'?
You just aren't any good at it, mazHur.



I suggest you review the claims you've posted and the rebuttals that proved you wrong.
Your culture is a giant religious theocracy that attempts to control all aspects of your lives as a means and insurance of retaining it's own power/power base.
Christians ( Catholics ) also did that in past history as I mentioned. However, the western mind set was obviously stronger than your culture's and achieved hard fought freedoms over time.
Your culture has simply become intellectually lazy over time. Your glory days are long gone.


Blame for what?
If it's the restriction and destruction of knowledge, historically, it's been radical fundamentalists that demand their religious interpretations prevail.


You are confused. Radical Christian fundamentalists are not a majority of the US. But they have had influence disproportional to their numbers.

You should also be aware that it was the fundamentalist element of Christianity in the US that called for war in the Middle East on religious arguments.
The late Jerry Falwell was active in such arguments such as:
http://www.wnd.com/2004/01/23022/
Worse was seen from Pentecostal fundamentalists such as Irvin Baxter :
http://www.endtime.com/islam/
(That's a more recent link, earlier ones after 911 were a lot more poisonous)
He wants to kill you.
Now, Irvin is a fundamentalist/creationist. I'm a believer in God, but I acknowledge reality and evolution.

Which one would you rather co-exist with? The one that argues with you, or the one determined to kill you?

Are all Christian creationists bad? No. But the radical Christian fundamentalist hates your guts on religious grounds and wants to do bad things to you. Just as elements in Islam want to do bad things to the west.


BTW, the US is not a Christian nation, it's a nation of many Christians.....there is a difference.

What is 'Christian' and 'many Christians'?? It's you who are playing sophistry and your 'games' ain't not going to work.

Islam has its own code of life...take it or leave it.
Islam is for science and technology, and this is the reason Pakistan became a nuclear country.

Terrorism has political ambitions behind; has conflict of interests. Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.
Like the Crusades Muslims too can go on Jihad but only under One spearhead.
What terrorists are doing is not Jihad, it's more like vengeance and war against oppressors and occupiers of their land and resources.

If Muslims were so bad then tell us what good America sees in Saudia that makes the US lick their boots despite knowing that Saudi laws totally conflict with theirs??

You are an Islampophobe and you must admit it. Inspite of blowing your own horn based on rumors and hearsay you must research, read history and geography and socio-political sciences before propounding your vicious propaganda against Muslims or anyone else.

/There are millions of Muslims living in the West. How could they if they were bad people? No, they are good law abiding and loyal citizens of lands where they live,,,
they pay you their taxes, work more than you and get paid. You are only puking our your wrath on all Muslims and that is bad.

Pakistan is NOT a theocracy; it has never ruled by theocratic elements. Ever since it was created in 1947 it has been under the rule of so called 'liberals' all of them educated in the West. Your assertion is thus false and rejected as baseless.

 

[mazHur]

 

[Stone]

What is 'Christian' and 'many Christians'?? It's you who are playing sophistry and your 'games' ain't not going to work.

Islam has its own code of life...take it or leave it.
Islam is for science and technology, and this is the reason Pakistan became a nuclear country.

Terrorism has political ambitions behind; has conflict of interests. Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.
Like the Crusades Muslims too can go on Jihad but only under One spearhead.
What terrorists are doing is not Jihad, it's more like vengeance and war against oppressors and occupiers of their land and resources.

If Muslims were so bad then tell us what good America sees in Saudia that makes the US lick their boots despite knowing that Saudi laws totally conflict with theirs??

You are an Islampophobe and you must admit it. Inspite of blowing your own horn based on rumors and hearsay you must research, read history and geography and socio-political sciences before propounding your vicious propaganda against Muslims or anyone else.

/There are millions of Muslims living in the West. How could they if they were bad people? No, they are good law abiding and loyal citizens of lands where they live,,,
they pay you their taxes, work more than you and get paid. You are only puking our your wrath on all Muslims and that is bad.

Pakistan is NOT a theocracy; it has never ruled by theocratic elements. Ever since it was created in 1947 it has been under the rule of so called 'liberals' all of them educated in the West. Your assertion is thus false and rejected as baseless.

What is 'Christian' and 'many Christians'?? It's you who are playing sophistry and your 'games' ain't not going to work.

No sophistry at all.
The US is not a Christian nation.
It's written into our Constitution as LAW.
It's the separation of church and state and it's the very first amendment to our Constitution.

But we are a nation of many religions and non religious peoples.
Of those that are Christian there are many denominations and some of those are very fundamentalist.
But radical fundamentalism is not of a majority in the US.

Islam has its own code of life...take it or leave it.

Indeed, and it's obvious your culture sometimes kills over the 'leaving it' issue.

Islam is for science and technology, and this is the reason Pakistan became a nuclear country.

Bullshit
Your nation was merely trying to maximize the potential kill ratio of your neighbor, India.
Your culture has been restrictive in the sciences and it's most obvious in geological and biological sciences because of religious creationist beliefs built into your educational system.
You, yourself, has showcased that ignorance in your Dog thread.

Terrorism has political ambitions behind; has conflict of interests. Terrorism has nothing to do with Islam.

One of the extreme examples of your religion being associated with terrorism is Iraq as Sunnis and Shiites battled each other for power after the fall of Saddam. That conflict has always been there.
Wahhabis are seen to be violent against any part of Islam that differs from their own brand of fundamentalism.
Your politics and religion are closely tied together.

Like the Crusades Muslims too can go on Jihad but only under One spearhead.

I just proved you wrong, amigo

What terrorists are doing is not Jihad, it's more like vengeance and war against oppressors and occupiers of their land and resources.

Terrorists have claimed their actions are jihad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Call_for_global_jihad
That's what al Qaeda is all about.

I keep telling you, you just aren't that good with sophistry, mazHur.
You'd probably do better being open and honest in your debating because this bullshit of yours is the easiest to refute.

If Muslims were so bad then tell us what good America sees in Saudia that makes the US lick their boots despite knowing that Saudi laws totally conflict with theirs??

The US's need for oil.
Hypocritical, yes....but that's reality.
Pakistan doesn't have any great reserves of oil, but you do have a lot of terrorists that want to kill us.
That is reality with no bullshit.

You are an Islampophobe and you must admit it

I call it as I see it and you, personally, have changed my opinion on your culture considerably.

Inspite of blowing your own horn based on rumors and hearsay you must research

That's ironic coming from you, mazHur.
I haven't denied any misdeeds of the US or western society.
I've been open and debated honestly with out reverting to the traits of your word games ( sophistry ) that you present as you claim you are an intellectual.
If you were indeed an intellectual, you wouldn't have to use distortion to make your self and your culture look angelic.
Photos of large Pakistani crowds including children, gathering to watch executions of women by various means is not evidence of a benign religion........and you played a part in making me curious enough to start searches that brought up such examples in your culture.
All you offer in rebuttal is denial.

There are millions of Muslims living in the West. How could they if they were bad people?

The US has a long history of embracing immigrants escaping oppression in their native lands.
I suspect most of those Muslims are looking for better lives and freedom and they are welcome here by most Americans. I say most, not all. That is a reality I don't hide.
There are radical fundamentalist Christians here that oppose the above, but they are a minority and violence within our nation by them is not the pandemic it is in your culture by radical fundamentalists.

Pakistan is NOT a theocracy;

I see you are back to sophistry again, mazHur.
Your form of government is not a theocracy, but the politics of Middle East is run under the influence of your clerical leadership and that includes Pakistan. You are seen, effectively, as a theologically controlled culture.

Your assertion is thus false and rejected as baseless.

You can huff and puff, deny all with vociferous rhetoric and distort with sophistry.......but in the end, it's all for naught.
Your arguments are the easiest to refute.

 

[mazHur]

No sophistry at all.
The US is not a Christian nation.
It's into our Constitution as LAW.
It's the separation of church and state and it's the very first amendment to our Constitution.
[[[[[[[[ Within heart you are patently Christians or Jews. Constitution is a piece of paper, good, but you still waver from it. You Islamophobia,prejudices against Mormons, stiffling comment on Holocaust, oppression of women rights and equality, war mongering and bullying are not part of your Constitution yet you become a Christian or a Jew with the change in circumstance...that's a pity.
I agree your constitution says all good but what you do is not all good,
There is a diff between saying and doing.....you are doing the later, spoiling the image of America through your bias against Muslims and other minorities.]]]]]]

But we are a nation of many religions and non religious peoples.
Of those that are Christian there are many denominations and some of those are very fundamentalist.
But radical fundamentalism is not of a majority in the US.

[[[[[[I know you are a melting pot of diverse cultures and nationalities, but it 's ironical the you are not ready to accept Muslims who live in your country like good American citizens. That is gross......]]]]]]]

Indeed, and it's obvious your culture sometimes kills over the 'leaving it' issue.

[[[[[[[Killing a deviate is not allowed by Islam but if sometimes someone does that he is committing a ''societal' crime and he is prosecuted as per criminal law. Don't try to attribute criminally culpable actions to Islam....with the malafide intentions and ulterior motives of maligning a great religion.]]]]]]]]


Bullshit
Your nation was merely trying to maximize the potential kill ratio of your neighbor, India.
Your culture has been restrictive in the sciences and it's most obvious in geological and biological sciences because of religious creationist beliefs built into your educational system.


[[[[[[Our culture doesn't stop us from scientific pursuits.....no restiction at all. Proof of it is that we are a nuclear nation... and you are only jealous of our progress]]]]



You, yourself, has showcased that ignorance in your Dog thread.

{{{{{{{{{ it seems some dog bit your arse while you were trying to get down your toy bike]]]]]]]]]

One of the extreme examples of your religion being associated with terrorism is Iraq as Sunnis and Shiites battled each other for power after the fall of Saddam. That conflict has always been there.

[[[[[[[[[It' the US and its western allies for creating the Shia sunni sectarian divide and all bloodshed is on its head]]]]]]]

Wahhabis are seen to be violent against any part of Islam that differs from their own brand of fundamentalis

[[[[[[[Saudis are Wahabis yet Uncle Sam and other western nations bow to it ..ever thought why??? Enough proof that you have double standards and a bent for hypocrisy .]]]]]]]

Your politics and religion are closely tied together.

[[[[[[[Not politics but culture to some extent. Reason: dominance of Muslim population and electorate in their hands..that's democracy and you must not object to eat. Remember Lincolns saying about democracy?? by the ..for the ,,,of the .,,,,,= demoncracy!!]]]]]]


I just proved you wrong, amigo

[[[[[[[You have lost the debate and are just pigging ....]]]]]]

Terrorists have claimed their actions are jihad.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#Call_for_global_jihad
That's what al Qaeda is all about.

[[[[[[[[Conflict of interest, political ambitions, and occupation of another country through force,,,,,and more are the factors which go in the making of Mujahideens ( when they serve your interest) otherwise you call the 'terrorist''...
Wouldn't you crusade if someone attacked your country and occupied your home?? would you call that 'terrorism' on your part?? NO.Everyone has a right to defend...you failed to defend your own country and a few Arabs screwed you in your own house on 911]]]]]]]


I keep telling you, you just aren't that good with sophistry, mazHur.
You'd probably do better being open and honest in your debating because this bullshit of yours is the easiest to refute.

[[[[[[I hate sophistry which are on to....your remarks smack of dead rat]]]]]]]


The US's need for oil.
Hypocritical, yes....but that's reality.
Pakistan doesn't have any great reserves of oil, but you do have a lot of terrorists that want to kill us.
That is reality with no bullshit.

[[[[[[If that were so what the hell is NATO doing in our part of the world and in the ME since years??? They call you terrorists, you ex president and think tanks call you terrorists,,,,,,first check that. Charity begins at home, boy!!]]]]]


I call it as I see it and you, personally, have changed my opinion on your culture considerably.

[[[[[[[it's all yellow to your jaundiced eye]]]]]


That's ironic coming from you, mazHur.
I haven't denied any misdeeds of the US or western society.
I've been open and debated honestly with out reverting to the traits of your word games ( sophistry ) that you present as you claim you are an intellectual.
If you were indeed an intellectual, you wouldn't have to use distortion to make your self and your culture look angelic.

[[[I never said my culture is 'idealic' ....only you want to attribute wrong flair to things,,,,and that's not desirable, proves how ignorant a person you are]]]]

Photos of large Pakistani crowds including children, gathering to watch executions of women by various means is not evidence of a benign religion........and you played a part in making me curious enough to start searches that brought up such examples in your culture.
[[[[[[Islam has nothing to do with Crimes committed by its followers..wayward followers....it's just like Christians who are divided into good and bad...merely a crime committed by some Christians isn't enought to malign a great religion like christianity but ...................you will]]]]]]

All you offer in rebuttal is denial.
[[[[[tit for tat...is all you get for your bullshit]]]]]]

The US has a long history of embracing immigrants escaping oppression in their native lands.

[[[[ Haha!! you 'embrace' not only for the sake of love....but money. Australia , Canada, UK,and many other countries do it to earn money, eke out great revenue from them [[[[[


I suspect most of those Muslims are looking for better lives and freedom and they are welcome here by most Americans. I say most, not all. That is a reality I don't hide.
There are radical fundamentalist Christians here that oppose the above, but they are a minority and violence within our nation by them is not the pandemic it is in your culture by radical fundamentalists.

[[[[[[Muslims immigrants in the West are mostly highly educated and cream of our nation,,,,,they are helping you economy and are doing better than most of you...
They are there to earn and they do earn through hard work .....they have more freedom at home than anywhere else. At home they will live like Lords, have an army of servants and maids, etc but abroad they do their own laundry, dish washing and bla bala.....which they will never do at home]]]]]]


I see you are back to sophistry again, mazHur.
Your form of government is not a theocracy, but the politics of Middle East is run under the influence of your clerical leadership and that includes Pakistan. You are seen, effectively, as a theologically controlled culture.

[[[[false....i have already given answer herein above.]]]]

You can huff and puff, deny all with vociferous rhetoric and distort with sophistry.......but in the end, it's all for naught.
Your arguments are the easiest to refute.

[[[[[[[you are simply biased a closed mind.,....a bigot...sorry to say that. you need some treatment,...a shrink could help you]]]]]

 

[mazHur]