A Question of logic and objectivity

[garatoxicallie]

I haven't got my copy of it to hand so I can't really debate it with you.

And of course I know the other prophets, however many hundreds there are.

The things I mentioned, I read in the Qu'Ran. I'll be back at home in a few days, so I'll post what I find. Along with the name of the translation I used.

Edit: Also, how would Muhammed have been mentioned in the Torah? That's at least 500 years before Islam even registered anywhere.

It was a prophecy (by the way it was the bible that was 500 yeas before Islam)
מוחמד is spelled Muhammad and some people(who were accused of distorting) translated the Hebrew word as Sweet.

http://video.ak.facebook.com/cfs-ak-sf2p/27637/910/115114058523516_23196.mp4

Muhammad and not Sweet
The 5th Chapter
http://media.snunit.k12.il/kodeshm/mp3/t3005.mp3
verse 16 is the last one, Muhammad is the
last sentence

 

[hart]

I am objective, as a matter of fact I am against discrimination at all it's forms, it's why I wonder why is it always someone or something that are out of the rule.
For example, I had an argument with someone from Israel, and was asking him why Palestinian citizens and children are killed, while Israel does everything ever wanted, while you condemn Palestinians because they defend their country, and his answer was(they are anti Semitists ) I said that semitic includes Arabs and jews and Amharic, Arabic, Aramaic, Akkadian, Ge'ez, Hebrew, Phoenician, Maltese, Tigre and Tigrinya among others(copied from wikipedia) then he said we do what ever we want and we are the only semitic race, we hate everybody and we will rule the world and US will help, and we will do everything and we will distort Quran as we distorted the Torah, and no law can ever stop us, then he blocked me, lucky me I only remember these FACTS.
Why do you think he sees it as this, they can do what ever they want because they are so, and no body can judge them.

Gara, I would not say you spoke for all the followers of Muhhamad, nor would I say the fellow you spoke with speaks for everyone from Israel.

You will find religious fanatics in all religions, which is why making generalizations are bad.

 

[retro]

The Torah mentioned Muhammad as the last Prophet.

Isaiah 29:12?

Conjecture at best... Muhammad claimed to say that he wasn't learned, so that somehow fulfills what Isaiah said? Sorry, not buying it.

 

[garatoxicallie]

Nope. I don't follow the God known as Mohammed specifically because of course I don't follow that religion, but I don't hate it because I really have no reason to.

It's subjective, in terms of hate/like, because as I said, one person may follow that particular religion and if they see it being disrespected (in their opinion) they will be angry with a certain person/group. On the same token if someone sees/hears about someone else disrespecting Mohammed (doesn't have to be that, could be anything, but that's the example we're working with here) they might be happy because they see that as a good thing.

Well, I don't follow Jesus Christ, but I don't mock him and draw so-called funny pictures of him.

 

[garatoxicallie]

You seriously need to get your facts straight... in the Muslim faith Muhammad is Allah's last Prophet, and Allah is God.

Another interesting fact, Jews, Christians, and Muslims all worship the same God.

True, finally someone who knows something true.

 

[retro]

Well, I don't follow Jesus Christ, but I don't mock him and draw so-called funny pictures of him.

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that others don't. It's also accepted as "free speech".

 

[garatoxicallie]

Gara, I would not say you spoke for all the followers of Muhhamad, nor would I say the fellow you spoke with speaks for everyone from Israel.

You will find religious fanatics in all religions, which is why making generalizations are bad.

That;s the first time I feel it makes sense, but this is what you see on TV, they kill and use firbidden weapons on civilians then they say they are fighting terrorism...

 

[retro]

That;s the first time I feel it makes sense, but this is what you see on TV, they kill and use firbidden weapons on civilians then they say they are fighting terrorism...

and people claiming to be followers of Islam blow themselves up and murder civilians

 

[garatoxicallie]

Isaiah 29:12?

Conjecture at best... Muhammad claimed to say that he wasn't learned, so that somehow fulfills what Isaiah said? Sorry, not buying it.

He really wasn't learned, so that no one alleges he came up with all these words(Quran) and you can sense that when you read Quran and read Hadith(his conversations, but in the written form)

 

[garatoxicallie]

Just because you don't do it doesn't mean that others don't. It's also accepted as "free speech".

Freedom as Muslims know it is to do what in your personal space, but not affect others'
so you can have fun but not make fun of others
and not hurt others nor mock them.
SO it's offensive when you invade someone's space while they did nothing to you...In such case, they can invade yours, and you can't call them terrorists nor anything, you started it.

 

[garatoxicallie]

and people claiming to be followers of Islam blow themselves up and murder civilians

It's a response to what happens to them.
If I attack you and kill you children and so on, all I can expect is you blowing me up, I'd be lucky if we die together.
By the way, when they low themselves up, all they are thinking of in most cases is revenge, because you started it.

 

[porterjack]

By the way, when they low themselves up, all they are thinking of in most cases is revenge, because you started it.

who knows what they are thinking, frankly who cares

but they are cowards, not martyrs, they always seem to target innocents (9 11) the people who died in NYC were, for the most part ordinary US ciitzens, not soldiers, not politiicans,and there is no doubt that those who died started nothing

 

[garatoxicallie]

who knows what they are thinking, frankly who cares

but they are cowards, not martyrs, they always seem to target innocents (9 11) the people who died in NYC were, for the most part ordinary US ciitzens, not soldiers, not politiicans,and there is no doubt that those who died started nothing

I think this is the best answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A6ssSoORs&feature=player_embedded

 

[retro]

It's a response to what happens to them.
If I attack you and kill you children and so on, all I can expect is you blowing me up, I'd be lucky if we die together.
By the way, when they low themselves up, all they are thinking of in most cases is revenge, because you started it.

I didn't start shit... here you are talking about freedoms and how it's not fair that people make fun of Muhammad, but you're justifying murder.

 

[retro]

I think this is the best answer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3A6ssSoORs&feature=player_embedded

The poor Palestinians.... who started the First Intifada? Oh, that's right... the Palestinians did. They targeted not only IDF forces, but civilians as well. Who started the aggression in the middle east after Israel became a sovereign nation? After UN Resolution 181 and the declaration of Israel as a country, Arab nations enacted discriminatory measures against their Jewish citizens, which led to a mass immigration to Israel. Arab nations have been attacking Israel in one form or another even since the inception of the modern state of Israel. So I'll ask you... who actually started this conflict? Who started the Second Intifada? The Palestinians did. After Arafat turned down the agreement to create a Palestinian state and pulled the strings behind the scenes to start the Second Intifada in order for him to keep control of the PLO and all of the money associated with it.

Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people on both sides have suffered... but to blame everything on Israel or on the "west" is not only wrong, but it's wholly ignorant as well.

 

[garatoxicallie]

I didn't start shit... here you are talking about freedoms and how it's not fair that people make fun of Muhammad, but you're justifying murder.

I don't mean you by you started it, I was talking about the example. and there are no murders yet, just the people who started, and what they started, you didn't watch the video, did you?

 

[garatoxicallie]

The poor Palestinians.... who started the First Intifada? Oh, that's right... the Palestinians did. They targeted not only IDF forces, but civilians as well. Who started the aggression in the middle east after Israel became a sovereign nation? After UN Resolution 181 and the declaration of Israel as a country, Arab nations enacted discriminatory measures against their Jewish citizens, which led to a mass immigration to Israel. Arab nations have been attacking Israel in one form or another even since the inception of the modern state of Israel. So I'll ask you... who actually started this conflict? Who started the Second Intifada? The Palestinians did. After Arafat turned down the agreement to create a Palestinian state and pulled the strings behind the scenes to start the Second Intifada in order for him to keep control of the PLO and all of the money associated with it.

Unfortunately, a lot of innocent people on both sides have suffered... but to blame everything on Israel or on the "west" is not only wrong, but it's wholly ignorant as well.

It's their land, so they can be killed, but can't fight back? Is that even logic?

 

[garatoxicallie]

OK, this was mainly a general discussion, but I really need to know your opinion about this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rXPrfnU3G0&has_verified=1

 

[retro]

I don't mean you by you started it, I was talking about the example. and there are no murders yet, just the people who started, and what they started, you didn't watch the video, did you?

You justified so-called "suicide" bombers... they're nothing more than murderers. So yes, you're justifying murder. In regards to the video, yes I watched the video... and all I heard was a lecturer screaming about how his parents were killed in concentration camps so he has the right to condemn Israel.

 

[retro]

It's their land, so they can be killed, but can't fight back? Is that even logic?

You're not even making sense anymore. The Palestinians started both Intifadas, and purposefully targeted civilians during them. Sounds like it's the other way around, Israel was defending itself and its citizens. Just like they've been doing since the inception of the modern state of Israel.