You have to be kidding me. It can not be this simple

[Alien Allen]

I have had horrible issues with getting a good nights sleep. I take ambien which gets me to sleep to start with and that has helped as before it was a curse just getting to sleep.

Now once asleep I could wake up and fall right back to sleep. It was just getting to sleep to begin with.

However I just could never sleep past 3-4 am without waking up the first time. Then it would be sleep for 10-15 minutes and wake up until I finally got out of bed 2-3 hours later.

This is driving me nuts. I even tried the old style sleeping pill with no success. I tried the ambien cr and still could not sleep thru the night.

Now I could put up with this but I am exhausted during the day. I do not sleep sound and never wake up refreshed.

So anyway to get to the point I always sleep on my stomach. I never sleep on my back. Last night I got in bed and layed on my back and fell a sleep quickly. Normally that takes some time even with the ambien.

Holy crap I slept until 5am. That happens maybe once a month. Now it was not a super deep sleep. I get those about once every 3 months where I would wake up around 2am and feel like I had slept for 8 hours.

All these years and some of this is due to sleeping on my stomach?? :willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

I know the depression has an effect on being fatigued and not sleeping but seems like I may have hit on something unexpected.

 

[RedRyder]

Have you ever had a sleep study done?

As for depression..... I had a bout of that a few years ago.... I slept ALL THE TIME!

I sure hope you get it sorted out. When I'm stressed I find I have trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. Like you.... the next day I feel wiped out. Facing a full day at work like that is the pits. I'm glad I don't operate heavy machinery. Other than my car. On the way home.... that's bad enough some days. I've got only about a 20 minute or so ride.... but when you're exhausted.... it can seem like longer. Some days I have the radio blaring.... the windows down..... even in the winter! Just to stay awake.

 

[Staci]

i agree with red about the sleep study. i know that i am taking the ambien cr and am having issues staying alseep all night. have you thought about lunesta(sp)?

 

[Alien Allen]

Also with the CR I did not fall asleep to start with as well.

The doctor thinks it is the depression at play but I never woke up refreshed going back to my teens

I doubt the lunesta would do any different or the dr would have tried that a month ago instead of the old style sleeping pills

I tried them for a couple of days and no difference. In fact they were worse at getting me to sleep to begin with.

The dr was really surprised the CR did not make a difference

 

[RedRyder]

It's your 'A' type personality then. You worry too much. Always have.... Always will. You can get a handle on it.... but it's ingrained in you. It'll take some time.... but you can do it to a certain extent.

Give yourself permission to go to bed and lie down and sleep. Tell yourself you'll think about whatever it is that is on your mind tomorrow. If you have to, keep a pad of paper and a pen by the bedside. Write down what's on your mind at that moment and then tell yourself it will be there tomorrow to deal with. Right at that moment you need your rest/sleep and that is that. I've done this very thing and it really helped. Try it. Seriously.

If you find your mind still thinking about things.... Take a deep breath and tell yourself to stop it. Focus on your breathing. In and out. Relax your body one part at a time. You'd be surprised how tense you can be when you actually focus on feeling yourself relax one part or area at a time. Now don't laugh or turn this into something else. I'm really offering some good advice.

 

[Alien Allen]

The type A does not explain waking up in the middle of the night and being able to go back to sleep again and again. I have great dreams near when I wake up. I wonder if subconsciously I am doing this to be able to have those dreams. Once I am awake for a few seconds the memory of the dreams are gone though.

The type A would explain not getting to sleep to begin with. I may need to try meditation or something to work on that.

 

[RedRyder]

The type A does not explain waking up in the middle of the night and being able to go back to sleep again and again. I have great dreams near when I wake up. I wonder if subconsciously I am doing this to be able to have those dreams. Once I am awake for a few seconds the memory of the dreams are gone though.

The type A would explain not getting to sleep to begin with. I may need to try meditation or something to work on that.

Perhaps a noise in the house awakens you. The dog's breathing/dreaming? The refrigerator kicking on and off? The house's normal creaking/settling noises? Your blanket comes off and you get chilled? Is the room dark enough?

BTW..... When I was depressed and slept a lot.... I also had wonderful dreams. Most of the time anyway. I would want to sleep just to experience them and be in that happy place. I can completely understand that concept.

 

[Alien Allen]

I put in ear plugs half the time

Noises definitely are a distraction to get to sleep to begin with. Ear plugs help

The middle of the night stuff is not noise related. These pills make me sleep thru anything up til I rouse myself

That was rouse and not arouse for those looking for a punch line

 

[AUFred]

Glad you found something that works.

 

[ClicheGuevara]

I've had sleep problems for years, and used drugs or alcohol to fall asleep. I would lay there and keep worrying about not being able to sleep, and how hard it would be to function the next day without sleep. Then after a night of not sleeping, the next day I'd tell myself throughout the day that tonight would be the same. I wasn't going to be able to sleep! And sure enough I wouldn't sleep.

On the suggestion of my therapist I read a book called Say goodnight to Insomnia by Greg Jacobs. I started reading it and was skeptical at first because it's written kinda cheesy. I decided I had nothing to lose so I gave it a shot and followed the plan outlined in the book.

It really helped me, I don't worry about sleep anymore and I average 7-8 hours a night easily. I only wake up to pee now, no more laying in bed awake.

 

[Alien Allen]

Cliche thanks for the tip on the book

Like you I went the self medicating way

Pot worked and then once I had kids get old enough I had to stop that or get caught

So I then passed on to the booze.

They would work to get me to sleep but never to get a sound sleep. What as I never sleep sound but once or twice a year if that. And I never wake up refreshed. I have no memory of waking up refreshed.

If I did not take the Ambien to get to sleep to begin with I would toss around for an hour or two. I could be dead tired but once my head hit the pillow it would be like getting an adrenalin rush.

So the Ambien is working to get me to sleep but I need to get a restful and deep sleep. That is my mystery that needs to be unlocked.

 

[ClicheGuevara]

I hope you find the answer because insomnia really sucks. I can tell you how I do it if you like.

 

[Alien Allen]

I hope you find the answer because insomnia really sucks. I can tell you how I do it if you like.

I am open to any ideas

I am gonna see if the library has that book also

thanks

 

[ClicheGuevara]

I had to find it on amazon..

The basic idea behind the book is changing your thinking patterns about sleep, I'm sure you associate sleep with negativity since it's never been easy to sleep? So you need to change that to positive.

People can function fine off of 4-5 hours of sleep, it's not fun but it is not bad for you either. No one has ever died solely from not sleeping well and a lot of people are dealing with it on a daily basis.

When you lay down to sleep, tell yourself "I'm going to be just fine if I don't sleep well, it will be aggravating but it won't hurt me to lose a few hours of sleep." Instead of constantly worrying about sleep, give yourself permission to not sleep well. Basically just tell yourself "Oh well, It's not the end of the world."

The book also suggests cutting back on sleep to 5-6 hours a night for a few nights, then 6-7 a few nights, then 7-8 until you find that sweet spot where you fall asleep 5-10 minutes after laying down..For me it's 6 1/2 to 7 1/2 hours of sleep a night. I fall asleep the same time and wake up the same time every day, that is key! Giving your body a routine. Don't "catch up" on sleep on the weekends or your days off because you will be throwing your routine off.

The book also goes into body temperature and how to regulate it, when it's high your body is active and when it's low your tired.

For me, working out 4 hours before bed drops my temperature right where I need it to be. I also open my windows first thing in the morning and don't were sunglasses the first half hour of the day because apparently natural sunlight gets your temp up. And the earlier it gets up, the earlier it goes down making you tired.

It's basically all the things people have told you over the years and common sense, the key is to stick with it. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things but it's become such a part of my daily routine that I don't think about it.

 

[Alien Allen]

I have a hard time with the consistency getting up on the weekends. I pretty much go to bed at the same time though. I know about those issues. I used to be horrible about getting up really late on weekends. I know that would screw things up. Getting up at 6am on a weekend just don't seem right though. I am lucky to force myself out by 8am.

Again with the ambien getting to sleep now is not the problem. Unless I oversleep on the weekend. I do miss the beer chasers though with it. I could fall asleep within 2-3 minutes even when taking only 1/3 of small dose of ambien.

The problem is not getting a deep sleep and waking up around 3am. I would not mind getting off the ambien but at this stage I am not going to fight that part.

Anyway I will see how it goes tonite sleeping on my back again. Maybe this is part of the problem.

 

[Francis]

I have had horrible issues with getting a good nights sleep. I take ambien which gets me to sleep to start with and that has helped as before it was a curse just getting to sleep.

Now once asleep I could wake up and fall right back to sleep. It was just getting to sleep to begin with.

However I just could never sleep past 3-4 am without waking up the first time. Then it would be sleep for 10-15 minutes and wake up until I finally got out of bed 2-3 hours later.

This is driving me nuts. I even tried the old style sleeping pill with no success. I tried the ambien cr and still could not sleep thru the night.

Now I could put up with this but I am exhausted during the day. I do not sleep sound and never wake up refreshed.

So anyway to get to the point I always sleep on my stomach. I never sleep on my back. Last night I got in bed and layed on my back and fell a sleep quickly. Normally that takes some time even with the ambien.

Holy crap I slept until 5am. That happens maybe once a month. Now it was not a super deep sleep. I get those about once every 3 months where I would wake up around 2am and feel like I had slept for 8 hours.

All these years and some of this is due to sleeping on my stomach?? :willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

I know the depression has an effect on being fatigued and not sleeping but seems like I may have hit on something unexpected.

Hi Allen, I have a similar problem years ago.. A very good family doctor gave me two things.. One I can remember, the other is probably out of date but I do remember the cause..

1) the biggest problem I had was I was not dreaming. Hence I was not getting REM ( Rapid Eye Movement ) sleep.. He offered me medication for this. I really do not like taking meds but I did try and did not have much success..

2) we then tried a derivative of what you get when you have a big turkey type meal. Basically it's like a natural approach to sleep medication of you want to look into it.. Its called tryptophan and was great in that it didn't cause the drag effect in the morning time ( lag ) when I woke up..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tryptophan

That was my experience in any case..

 

[ClicheGuevara]

tryptophan is good stuff. .I use to use that and melatonin, melatonin made my eyes itchy though! Lol.

 

[Francis]

I have a hard time with the consistency getting up on the weekends. I pretty much go to bed at the same time though. I know about those issues. I used to be horrible about getting up really late on weekends. I know that would screw things up. Getting up at 6am on a weekend just don't seem right though. I am lucky to force myself out by 8am.

Again with the ambien getting to sleep now is not the problem. Unless I oversleep on the weekend. I do miss the beer chasers though with it. I could fall asleep within 2-3 minutes even when taking only 1/3 of small dose of ambien.

The problem is not getting a deep sleep and waking up around 3am. I would not mind getting off the ambien but at this stage I am not going to fight that part.

Anyway I will see how it goes tonite sleeping on my back again. Maybe this is part of the problem.

Sorry Allen, perhaps I should have added this quote as well.. What I should have added is that perhaps the Tryptophan I quoted above can give you the added better sleep you need.. Also the REM issue could be the bigger part of your problem.. It was most of mine..

 

[Francis]

tryptophan is good stuff. .I use to use that and melatonin, melatonin made my eyes itchy though! Lol.

Yes.. My daughter uses melatonin..

I found just the tryptophan good enough for me..

I guess both might be a good combination but I try to use only one at a time to know which does the best work for me as well as lower cost, waste and allergic reactions as you encountered..

 

[Alien Allen]

Thanks gents for the continuing advice

Francis I am familiar with Tryptophan but never tried it.

I will now though. Same with melatonin. I have heard of it but never tried it either.

As to dreaming I am not sure of that. I will have to try and see if I wake up early with any memories of dreams. I know later on when I keep waking up and going back to sleep I get a lot of dreams.