Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Here is my rambling response...
This is what happens- many conservatives think the Republican Party represents their wishes so that's how they vote. Liberals think the same thing about Democrats. Some conservatives think Liberterian is the way to go. Independents go with whomever seems the least crazy for the current election and matches their natural conservative, moderate, or liberal leanings. Bottom line you have disasters like Bush voted into office, not just once, but twice because people vote party over competence. This happens to Democrats to. And most of the voters are just plain stupid, latching on to whatever media pundit matches their philosophical leanings, and they believe everything their source spouts whether it be Fox or MSNBC.
I do think capitalism is the best system in existence, but to be the best and not the worst, the people in power must have a moral basis that values all participants in the economic system. If the smart ones who control the economy lack morality, which today some large percentage clearly do, then government regulation of the workplace is a must for workers to get a fair shake.
If we have government programs, I want them to work for people and be free of fraud. If they don't accomplish that I don't want them. And lacking morality, I want laws in place the protect workers from the moguls. Unfortunately that only happens when you have a pro-labor government in office. Unfortunately when you lack morality, who says your government reps are going to be any better than the greedy business bastards?
Under Obama, if the economy and overall well being of U.S. citizens gets better then I'll be happy. If not, I'll be disillusioned. You know why? Because there will be no viable choice to vote into office.
Conservatives mostly seem to want an unregulated marketplace and/or to ship all the good paying jobs they can overseas to less expensive labor groups. There has been a steady drain of manufacturing overseas for the last 40 years under Reps (and Dems), and it can be argued that dismantling depression era regulations had a direct casual effect of our current economic crisis. Business wants to operate unregulated and business entities try their dam-dest to put friendly pro-business politicians into office, and typically business has the most money to invest in politicians and the political process.
Despite the promises, I believe conservatives if elected, won't have the will to dump all of those expensive government programs that could drain us dry. Instead they will just do their best to help business obtain max profits while kicking the shit out of the workers to achieve it without solving overall problems. They also tend to push bullshit trickle-down economics, clearly a self serving philosophy.
I used to vote Republican but I blame the Republican Party for the current animosity that exists within our politics. They are inflexible, uncompromising, and vilifying. As a result our politics are incredibly polarized and not much of anything is going to get accomplished under the political climate that currently exists in this country. BTW, I don't consider liberals blameless in all of this. They pushed for more home ownership without the proper oversight. When they get the chance, they tend to push for expensive programs that lack proper oversight and fail to be fiscally responsible.
I understand how the group of people on this forum who want smaller government got that way. The government usually fucks it up. I understand and I believe that really is a reasonable approach, except that some of those people voted for Bush because they thought he was the lesser of two evils.
To really solve problems you need a majority of citizens who participate in the process, understand what the limits of government are. Frankly I don't see that happening. Any time any political party wants to "cut" something, like social security, there will be calls for their heads. What does it take to fix this? At this point I really don't see a solution. Does anyone here?
Based on my current prejudices, I'm really happy McCain is not President. The Republican Party is a joke with the Demsocrats in a close second place. Although I'm not ready to call Obama a disaster, believe it or not, that day may come if things turn to shit, or I should say worse shit then they were under the last Administration. At this point in time, I'm more of a pessimist than an optimist that we have the national will to fix our problems.
This is what happens- many conservatives think the Republican Party represents their wishes so that's how they vote. Liberals think the same thing about Democrats. Some conservatives think Liberterian is the way to go. Independents go with whomever seems the least crazy for the current election and matches their natural conservative, moderate, or liberal leanings. Bottom line you have disasters like Bush voted into office, not just once, but twice because people vote party over competence. This happens to Democrats to. And most of the voters are just plain stupid, latching on to whatever media pundit matches their philosophical leanings, and they believe everything their source spouts whether it be Fox or MSNBC.
I do think capitalism is the best system in existence, but to be the best and not the worst, the people in power must have a moral basis that values all participants in the economic system. If the smart ones who control the economy lack morality, which today some large percentage clearly do, then government regulation of the workplace is a must for workers to get a fair shake.
If we have government programs, I want them to work for people and be free of fraud. If they don't accomplish that I don't want them. And lacking morality, I want laws in place the protect workers from the moguls. Unfortunately that only happens when you have a pro-labor government in office. Unfortunately when you lack morality, who says your government reps are going to be any better than the greedy business bastards?
Under Obama, if the economy and overall well being of U.S. citizens gets better then I'll be happy. If not, I'll be disillusioned. You know why? Because there will be no viable choice to vote into office.
Conservatives mostly seem to want an unregulated marketplace and/or to ship all the good paying jobs they can overseas to less expensive labor groups. There has been a steady drain of manufacturing overseas for the last 40 years under Reps (and Dems), and it can be argued that dismantling depression era regulations had a direct casual effect of our current economic crisis. Business wants to operate unregulated and business entities try their dam-dest to put friendly pro-business politicians into office, and typically business has the most money to invest in politicians and the political process.
Despite the promises, I believe conservatives if elected, won't have the will to dump all of those expensive government programs that could drain us dry. Instead they will just do their best to help business obtain max profits while kicking the shit out of the workers to achieve it without solving overall problems. They also tend to push bullshit trickle-down economics, clearly a self serving philosophy.
I used to vote Republican but I blame the Republican Party for the current animosity that exists within our politics. They are inflexible, uncompromising, and vilifying. As a result our politics are incredibly polarized and not much of anything is going to get accomplished under the political climate that currently exists in this country. BTW, I don't consider liberals blameless in all of this. They pushed for more home ownership without the proper oversight. When they get the chance, they tend to push for expensive programs that lack proper oversight and fail to be fiscally responsible.
I understand how the group of people on this forum who want smaller government got that way. The government usually fucks it up. I understand and I believe that really is a reasonable approach, except that some of those people voted for Bush because they thought he was the lesser of two evils.
To really solve problems you need a majority of citizens who participate in the process, understand what the limits of government are. Frankly I don't see that happening. Any time any political party wants to "cut" something, like social security, there will be calls for their heads. What does it take to fix this? At this point I really don't see a solution. Does anyone here?
Based on my current prejudices, I'm really happy McCain is not President. The Republican Party is a joke with the Demsocrats in a close second place. Although I'm not ready to call Obama a disaster, believe it or not, that day may come if things turn to shit, or I should say worse shit then they were under the last Administration. At this point in time, I'm more of a pessimist than an optimist that we have the national will to fix our problems.
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(I don't remember where I made the Roman Empire comment previously, somewhere in all the blabber.)
