Why the United States is Fucked

[Johnfromokc]

It's sad that so many American are so prideful that they refuse to discuss this issue. Some Americans are so defensive about their country that if you even mention something you like about another part of the world like Europe or Australia, their response is often "If it's so much better, then why don't you move there?"

WTF is wrong with so many of my fellow Americans?

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/12/09/self-righteous-indifference-a-recipe-for-failure/


Self-Righteous Indifference: A Recipe For Failure

Here are some rather depressing statistics that ought to be enough to put a dent in any tricorn hat:

• The United States has less than five percent of the total human population, yet locks up nearly twenty-five percent of the world’s prisoners (the majority for non-violent offenses). That’s 2.3 million people behind bars – the most of any country on Earth and by far the highest per capita rate – almost five times that of Britain, eight times that of Germany, and a whopping twelve time that of Japan

The U.S. also emits twenty-five percent of global carbon dioxide emissions – the second highest of any nation in both gross tonnage as well as per capita.

• The gap in pay between CEOs at some of America’s largest companies and their average workers stands at a ratio of over three hundred to one – the largest of any developed country.

• There are nearly fifty million Americans without health insurance (sixteen percent of the population) despite the fact that many of them work full-time. The percentage of workers who receive health insurance through their employers continues to fall, currently approaching a measly fifty percent.

• The U.S. spends more annually on the War Department (as it was known before the official implementation of Orwellian doublespeak following World War II, which renamed it the Department of Defense) than it does on education, welfare, police and fire, transportation, arts and sciences combined. Incidentally, this is more than the defense budgets of the next fifteen countries added together.

• According to the latest OECD comprehensive world education report (based on student test scores in over sixty countries), the U.S. ranks 14th, 25th, and 17th in reading, math, and science respectively, lagging behind Canada, Japan, and South Korea among others.

As grim and sobering as these facts may be, what’s almost worse is the seeming inability of so many people on both sides of the political establishment to a) acknowledge them, and b) to sit down and engage in a rational discussion as to what ought to be done to try to fix them. Ever since September 11th, free discourse in this country has been held hostage by a curious mixture of jingoistic patriotism, hyper-partisanship, and a sort of self-righteous indifference that permeates every level of society.

It seems that as soon as anyone dares to point out any of the very real problems facing this country, unless those grievances are shared by the corporate power structure and the mass-media empire they’ve come to control, then such a person is immediately treated with suspicion, disdain, or outright contempt.

Case in point: The first time I traveled to Europe, upon my return, I was telling a friend about my visit to Amsterdam, saying how cool it was to be able to walk into a shop, buy some bread and cheese and a bottle of wine, and then sit in a public park, eating and drinking without fear of being harassed or arrested for violating “open container laws”. His immediate reaction was not one of admiration, as I would have expected, but rather of hurt pride and reflexive lashing-out, replying, “Well if you like it so much better in Europe, why don’t you move there?” This was someone close to me and I couldn’t understand what could trigger such an immediate, defensive sentiment. After all, I was only mentioning something different that I thought was good. Would it have been the same if I’d said how tasty the French fries were?

Since then, it’s happened again and again in a variety of settings, when, after having suggested possible improvements that could be made to various aspects of the status quo, or merely mentioning the way things are done elsewhere, I’m presented with this same knee-jerk response, or its slight variation; “So what? America is still the greatest country on Earth.” I continue to be stumped in trying to make sense of this recurring, baseless belligerence. I just don’t get the reasoning behind it. Apathy, I could understand, by why the hostility? It’s not like I’d engaged in a personal attack, or an assault on the moral and intellectual failings of any one individual.

Even allowing for the phenomenon of cognitive dissonance – that muddled thinking that comes when the facts no longer align with the rhetoric that’s been ingrained in every American since childhood; when it gets harder and harder to mesh reality with cherished notions of “the land of the free,” place of “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,” and home of “freedom and justice for all” – even if one can somehow ignore or look beyond the laundry list of evils listed at the beginning of this article, and see them as something other than a betrayal of our founding principles and an everlasting stain upon the country’s honor and reputation – even pretending for a moment that we are, in fact, the greatest, freest nation ever to grace the face of the planet; it still wouldn’t explain why we shouldn’t strive to be even better yet. Isn’t that what America is supposed to be all about – being the best at everything we do? Isn’t that the American Dream – working to make the world a better place than we found it; giving our children better lives than our own? Have we somehow reached the pinnacle of excellence and now any further development can only lead to ruin?

 

[skyblue]

my football team a fucked too

 

[Panacea]

Commence partisan finger pointing...


hell I think partisan finger pointing is what got us in all of these situations.

 

[JuggsBunny]

It used to piss me off to no end when people would say "America: Love it or leave it" or "If you're not with us, you're against us" or other such nonsense. It was usually thrown out when someone was losing an argument - and then they'd be really shocked when I told them "we ARE leaving" (we've lived in Germany for over two years).

There are a lot of things about Europe that I like. There are things about America that I like. There is no "perfect" country, every country has its own series of issues. However, what I don't understand is how certain Americans have made up in their minds (FOR EXAMPLE: national health care is "socialism" or even worse, labelled as "communism") - and they don't even LOOK at statistics. They just parrot what they hear right back - and never make an entire idea or thought their own.

I can say this - Americans are some of the most poorly educated people right now. And it's not getting any better.

 

[Accountable]

The United States has less than five percent of the total human population, yet locks up nearly twenty-five percent of the world’s prisoners (the majority for non-violent offenses). That’s 2.3 million people behind bars – the most of any country on Earth and by far the highest per capita rate – almost five times that of Britain, eight times that of Germany, and a whopping twelve time that of Japan

Unless I miss my mark, most of those prisoners are POWs of the "War on Drugs". So here the problem is (primarily) federal gov't overreach trying to protect us from ourselves. The solution: end the "War on Drugs" and the prison population should shrink to more compatible numbers. In other words, shrink the bloated government.

The U.S. also emits twenty-five percent of global carbon dioxide emissions – the second highest of any nation in both gross tonnage as well as per capita.

Carbon dioxide is not poison, despite all the fear mongering. This fear mongering originates from the Dept of Energy and the EPA. So here the problem appears to be federal gov't overreach, trying to protect us from ourselves, but even cursory investigation shows that it's really Washington politicians pandering for their corporate sponsors, primarily GE. The solution: reduce the federal government's operations to those which are enumerated in the Constitution, making it less profitable to "invest" in legislators. In other words, shrink the bloated government.

The gap in pay between CEOs at some of America’s largest companies and their average workers stands at a ratio of over three hundred to one – the largest of any developed country.

So? I don't understand how that can be construed to be a wise expenditure, or how they can sell it to the Board, but America’s largest companies are multinational corporations, not governments. That should only be addressed by the stockholders.

There are nearly fifty million Americans without health insurance (sixteen percent of the population) despite the fact that many of them work full-time. The percentage of workers who receive health insurance through their employers continues to fall, currently approaching a measly fifty percent.

The problem here is health insurance itself, which has enabled health costs to rise so high that people can't afford to get sick unless they pay a tithe to the Holy Insurer. The result is that the institution of insurance has become too big to fail, and Washington is trying to step in and bail it out by requiring those that don't already pay into it to get a policy. We would all be better off if our system of insurance collapsed under its own weight. If people had no insurance, it would be impossible to pay the astronomical medical costs. If no one could pay, those costs would plummet. Maybe the solution would be to outlaw insurance. One thing is sure, if the already-boated government started protecting us from ourselves by providing health insurance, we'd have to find a word more astronomical than astronomical to describe the cost increases. In other words, don't expand the bloated government.

The U.S. spends more annually on the War Department (as it was known before the official implementation of Orwellian doublespeak following World War II, which renamed it the Department of Defense) than it does on education, welfare, police and fire, transportation, arts and sciences combined. Incidentally, this is more than the defense budgets of the next fifteen countries added together.

Our military industrial complex has become the new Roman Empire. People pretend it doesn't exist by pointing out that we don't proclaim ownership - we merely replace "regimes" with "governments" more compliant to our wishes (I hear echoes of George Carlin's Shit vs Stuff routine). The solution: cut off the tentacles of our military octopus, closing our bases on foreign soil and bringing hundreds of thousands of troops home. Sell the now-surplus equipment to the sovereign nations we no longer occupy. Reduce the size of the military to a true stance of DEFENSE. In other words, shrink the bloated government.

According to the latest OECD comprehensive world education report (based on student test scores in over sixty countries), the U.S. ranks 14th, 25th, and 17th in reading, math, and science respectively, lagging behind Canada, Japan, and South Korea among others.

We were once number one in education. We accomplished this laudable feat without a federal dept of education. If each state were free to experiment, they could benchmark off each other and off the nations at the top of the OECD list, which are smaller than many of our states anyway. The way to do this is simple. Eliminate the unconstitutional Dept of Education, which will also cut our federal taxes substantially. In other words, shrink the bloated government.

 

[Alien Allen]

can't wait for a certain somebody to respond to the above post

You forget Acc we ARE the new nanny state

We are not to be left to our own to sort things out

Funny how for 200 years this country survived without all the stuff now provided or demanded by the govt

 

[Johnfromokc]

In other words, shrink the bloated government.

You mean the Wall Street government?

Carbon dioxide is not poison, despite all the fear mongering. This fear mongering originates from the Dept of Energy and the EPA. So here the problem appears to be federal gov't overreach, trying to protect us from ourselves, but even cursory investigation shows that it's really Washington politicians pandering for their corporate sponsors, primarily GE. The solution: reduce the federal government's operations to those which are enumerated in the Constitution, making it less profitable to "invest" in legislators.

There are actually quite a number of independent scientists concerned about carbon dioxide levels in our oceans that are killing coral reefs and sea life. Kill the oceans and you kill the humans. Pollution is a real and tangible issue.

In other words, shrink the bloated government.

You are talking about our Wall Street owned government, right?

So? I don't understand how that can be construed to be a wise expenditure, or how they can sell it to the Board, but America’s largest companies are multinational corporations, not governments. That should only be addressed by the stockholders.

Wrong. Who do you think the stockholders are? They are the ones who hold the most shares - and the CEO's and board of directors and a few select others hold the 51% required to completely control the corporations salaries. All the mutual fund share holders voting by proxy are nothing more than a formality and are of ZERO consideration to those who hold the 51% of shares and set the 300 to 1 salaries for themselves.

The problem here is health insurance itself, which has enabled health costs to rise so high that people can't afford to get sick unless they pay a tithe to the Holy Insurer. The result is that the institution of insurance has become too big to fail, and Washington is trying to step in and bail it out by requiring those that don't already pay into it to get a policy. We would all be better off if our system of insurance collapsed under its own weight. If people had no insurance, it would be impossible to pay the astronomical medical costs. If no one could pay, those costs would plummet. Maybe the solution would be to outlaw insurance.

I can agree with this statement.

One thing is sure, if the already-boated government started protecting us from ourselves by providing health insurance, we'd have to find a word more astronomical than astronomical to describe the cost increases. In other words, don't expand the bloated government.

Universal health care works in many countries quite well - Germany, France, Australia and many others. The United States is among the last of the industrialized nations to have it's collective head up its ass fighting against universal health care and hence its own best interests - and as a result, we have the most expensive health care system on the planet - and the most expensive is NOT the best in our case.

Our military industrial complex has become the new Roman Empire. People pretend it doesn't exist by pointing out that we don't proclaim ownership - we merely replace "regimes" with "governments" more compliant to our wishes (I hear echoes of George Carlin's Shit vs Stuff routine). The solution: cut off the tentacles of our military octopus, closing our bases on foreign soil and bringing hundreds of thousands of troops home. Sell the now-surplus equipment to the sovereign nations we no longer occupy. Reduce the size of the military to a true stance of DEFENSE.

Agree here.

In other words, shrink the bloated government.

You do actually mean gain control of the bloated Wall Street controlled government, right?

We were once number one in education. We accomplished this laudable feat without a federal dept of education. If each state were free to experiment, they could benchmark off each other and off the nations at the top of the OECD list, which are smaller than many of our states anyway. The way to do this is simple. Eliminate the unconstitutional Dept of Education, which will also cut our federal taxes substantially.

Wall Street only needs workers just educated enough to get the job done, but stupid enough to take the screwing and the low wages and the lack of health care and vacation time to enjoy the fruits of their labor. They want a "private sector for profit is always best for workers" mentality taught so that people will not unionize and demand fair wages and working conditions in exchange for the only capital the workers has - his or her LABOR.

In other words, shrink the bloated government.

You do understand we have had a Wall Street government for the last 30 years don't you?

 

[Accountable]

You mean the Wall Street government?

Yes

There are actually quite a number of independent scientists concerned about carbon dioxide levels in our oceans that are killing coral reefs and sea life. Kill the oceans and you kill the humans. Pollution is a real and tangible issue.

I'll admit I haven't read the latest and greatest on this because I consider it a back-burner issue ... WAAAAAY back.

You are talking about our Wall Street owned government, right?

Yes

Wrong. Who do you think the stockholders are? They are the ones who hold the most shares - and the CEO's and board of directors and a few select others hold the 51% required to completely control the corporations salaries. All the mutual fund share holders voting by proxy are nothing more than a formality and are of ZERO consideration to those who hold the 51% of shares and set the 300 to 1 salaries for themselves.

I don't care. The only thing that concerns me in this area is the disturbing amount of control these CEOs buy in Washington through corporate contributions. That's what needs to be stopped. I would like to see the anti-trust laws adjusted to have an objective set of criteria established defining "too big to fail", so that any corp that approaches that level will have to split into 2 or more smaller companies, thus minimizing the risk to the national economy. Beyond that, I don't care if they pile their money in the middle of the room, bathe in it, then set fire to it. The employees can strike or find other work. It is not within gov't jurisdiction to dictate salary.

I can agree with this statement.

Universal health care works in many countries quite well - Germany, France, Australia and many others. The United States is among the last of the industrialized nations to have it's collective head up its ass fighting against universal health care and hence its own best interests - and as a result, we have the most expensive health care system on the planet - and the most expensive is NOT the best in our case.

We're a different culture altogether. Until we get the gov't back under control of The People, there's no way any gov't program will be cost effective; it would only get more expensive.

Agree here.

I figured you would, but notice how many of your so-called Left politicians acted in that direction when they had the chance. Doing so would threaten a large chunk of campaign revenue.

You do actually mean gain control of the bloated Wall Street controlled government, right?

Yes

Wall Street only needs workers just educated enough to get the job done, but stupid enough to take the screwing and the low wages and the lack of health care and vacation time to enjoy the fruits of their labor. They want a "private sector for profit is always best for workers" mentality taught so that people will not unionize and demand fair wages and working conditions in exchange for the only capital the workers has - his or her LABOR.

And yet this education is being provided by one of the strongest unions in the nation. Go figger.

You do understand we have had a Wall Street government for the last 30 years don't you?

You need to read more history, or maybe bone up on your math skills. 2011-1913=98 ... That's how much crap needs cleaning in Washington.
Of course that begs the question: why do you want to give Washington, thus Wall Street, even more control??

 

[Johnfromokc]

I'll admit I haven't read the latest and greatest on this because I consider it a back-burner issue ... WAAAAAY back.

You might reconsider how far on the back burner you want to put getting control of global pollution if you understood the danger we face - and understand how close on our heels it truly is. The tipping point is closer than you believe - it's 5 minutes till midnight for planet Earth.

I don't care. The only thing that concerns me in this area is the disturbing amount of control these CEOs buy in Washington through corporate contributions. That's what needs to be stopped. I would like to see the anti-trust laws adjusted to have an objective set of criteria established defining "too big to fail", so that any corp that approaches that level will have to split into 2 or more smaller companies, thus minimizing the risk to the national economy. Beyond that, I don't care if they pile their money in the middle of the room, bathe in it, then set fire to it. The employees can strike or find other work. It is not within gov't jurisdiction to dictate salary.

But government does dictate labor laws, and guess who controls the government? (Hint: WALL STREET) So employees can't just strike - I wish we could strike and have half the power that Wall Street lords over 100% of us each day of our working lives. But the Wall Street government has its collective boot on the neck of labor - and you KNOW this is true. Just look at wages in the jobs offered in the Sunday paper tomorrow.

And hasn't Wall Street done a wonderful job increasing the pay of their top 1% 300 times that of the average worker? Do you really think Wall Street will ever do the right thing toward the American rank and file worker withgout the force of government to make them???

We're a different culture altogether. Until we get the gov't back under control of The People, there's no way any gov't program will be cost effective; it would only get more expensive.

Bullshit. People are people and all people need quality health care. All governments are made up of people, so it's just a cop out drilled into peoples heads that for some mysterious reason we cannot do what Europe and Australia have successfully done. And gues who is doing the drilling? (Hint: The WALL STREET owned government)

And yet this education is being provided by one of the strongest unions in the nation. Go figger.

Wrong again. The union DOES NOT provide the education. The Wall Street owned government dictates what is taught - not the unions. All the unions can do is attempt to negotiate wages and working conditions for the teachers. And the Wall Street owned government is working fervently to remove collective bargaing rights altogether.

You need to read more history, or maybe bone up on your math skills. 2011-1913=98 ... That's how much crap needs cleaning in Washington.

While it is true that we got our initial screwing on Jekyll Island in 1913 - the final solution was implemented and accelerated by saint Ronald Reagan and continued in bipartisan cooperation by every congress and adminsitration since then.

Hows that "Trickle Down Economic Theory" working for the country right now?

Of course that begs the question: why do you want to give Washington, thus Wall Street, even more control??

You don'y pay attention very well for a teacher. I want Wall Street brought under control and the only way we can bring Wall Street under control is by using the power of government Of The People, By The People and For The People to FORCE Wall Street into submission.

You don't force Wall Street into submission by weakening unions and driving down wages.

You don't force Wall Street into submission by refusing affordable medical care to 50,000,000 Americans.

You don't force Wall Street into submission by cutting education funding and ALLOWING Wall Street to dictate the curriculum.

A weak federal government means it will fall into submission by the multi $$$TRILLION$$$ Wall Street interests - even worse than the situation we face today.

This popular "Libertarian" mindset that the private sector does everything better when unregulated by government has benn proven a myth repeatedly and is the precise reason things are as they are today.

So you tell me - why would you want to give Wall Street even less regulation and an impotent government that has no hope of keeping it under control?

 

[Alien Allen]

You keep coming back to Wall St.

Sigh

You really think the Dept of Education is accomplishing anything? Seems like ever since is was made a department our kids are faring worse

Govt does not dictate labor laws? Tell that to the one airplane manufacturer who wants to open a plant in the south but is being prevented.

There many examples where govt has its fingers in labor law

 

[Johnfromokc]

You keep coming back to Wall St.

Sigh

You keep denying the the real cause of our economic misery - sigh.

You really think the Dept of Education is accomplishing anything? Seems like ever since is was made a department our kids are faring worse

Yeah, and every time education desperately needs funds, it somehow gets cut. But we can by god fund defense that ensures the profits of the military industrial complex while we cut wages, education and health care can't we?

Govt does not dictate labor laws? Tell that to the one airplane manufacturer who wants to open a plant in the south but is being prevented.

Did I say that? Or do you need to read more carefully?

And how is it wages keep going lower and lower with unions allegedly so protected by government? Why is it government keeps weakening unions when unions allegedly have all this lobbying money?

There many examples where govt has its fingers in labor law

No shit? And do ya reckon there are many examples where Wall Street lobbies to get its way most of the time where labor is concerned?

Who has the most money to lobby with Allen? Labor unions or Fortune 500 corporations? It's real easy to find out. Look it up for yourself.

 

[Accountable]

But government does dictate labor laws, and guess who controls the government? (Hint: WALL STREET) So employees can't just strike - I wish we could strike and have half the power that Wall Street lords over 100% of us each day of our working lives. But the Wall Street government has its collective boot on the neck of labor - and you KNOW this is true. Just look at wages in the jobs offered in the Sunday paper tomorrow.

That's the fault of labor. There is no law to keep people from striking, even without your lauded Union. Even laws against strikes can't do it. If the people rise up there's not much can be done about it. The problem is, the corporations known as Unions have workers sitting complacent waiting to be taken care of.

Unions rent legislators as much as Wall Street does. Unions are corporations, no matter how much you want to deny it. There's no difference between a union president and a corporate president. None.

And hasn't Wall Street done a wonderful job increasing the pay of their top 1% 300 times that of the average worker? Do you really think Wall Street will ever do the right thing toward the American rank and file worker withgout the force of government to make them???

I remember somebody saying that Wall Street controls the government. I'm sure you think he's an idiot. But assuming he's right (and I think he is) then right now Wall Street IS the government. That makes your question "Do you really think Wall Street will ever do the right thing toward the American rank and file worker withgout the force of Wall Street to make them???"

Bullshit. People are people and all people need quality health care. All governments are made up of people, so it's just a cop out drilled into peoples heads that for some mysterious reason we cannot do what Europe and Australia have successfully done. And gues who is doing the drilling? (Hint: The WALL STREET owned government)

So you would give control of our healthcare to Wall Street. Do you read your own posts?

Wrong again. The union DOES NOT provide the education. The Wall Street owned government dictates what is taught - not the unions. All the unions can do is attempt to negotiate wages and working conditions for the teachers. And the Wall Street owned government is working fervently to remove collective bargaing rights altogether.

It sounds like you agree with me that we need to get rid of the Dept of Ed.

While it is true that we got our initial screwing on Jekyll Island in 1913 - the final solution was implemented and accelerated by saint Ronald Reagan and continued in bipartisan cooperation by every congress and adminsitration since then.

Hows that "Trickle Down Economic Theory" working for the country right now?

It's not, which is why it baffles me that you keep insisting that we need to give yet more control of the country to Wall Street.

You don'y pay attention very well for a teacher.

And you don't pay attention for a dick. We started respectfully, and respectfully is the only way I will continue beyond this post.

I want Wall Street [which owns the government] brought under control and the only way we can bring Wall Street [which owns the government] under control is by using the power of government Of The People, By The People and For The People to FORCE Wall Street into submission.

Then first we need to get Wall Street out of Washington. To allow them even more control over our lives before we do that would be idiocy.
eta: Frankly it would be idiocy to do it anyway, but we need to get Wall Street out of Washington, regardless.

A weak federal government means it will fall into submission by the multi $$$TRILLION$$$ Wall Street interests - even worse than the situation we face today.

I disagree. Wall Street controls Washington because it is profitable to control Washington. A weak federal government, working within the constraints set forth by the Constitution, would not be as profitable an investment.

This popular "Libertarian" mindset that the private sector does everything better when unregulated by government has benn proven a myth repeatedly and is the precise reason things are as they are today.

Do you think there was less regulation over the past 30 years? You'd be wrong. The regulation has been and continues to be focused on preventing new business from threatening established corporations, limiting competition so that they can increase their markets and profits unhindered. This is what you unwittingly are fighting for.

 

[doombug]

It's sad that so many American are so prideful that they refuse to discuss this issue. Some Americans are so defensive about their country that if you even mention something you like about another part of the world like Europe or Australia, their response is often "If it's so much better, then why don't you move there?"

WTF is wrong with so many of my fellow Americans?

I agree. No one wants to look at the real problems the US is facing.

 

[Johnfromokc]

That's the fault of labor. There is no law to keep people from striking, even without your lauded Union. Even laws against strikes can't do it. If the people rise up there's not much can be done about it. The problem is, the corporations known as Unions have workers sitting complacent waiting to be taken care of.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Labor laws have been so weakened that unions have no teeth. Divided individual workers are what corporations want, and that is what they have. You really should study American labor history - you wouldn't make statements like this if you did.

Unions rent legislators as much as Wall Street does. Unions are corporations, no matter how much you want to deny it. There's no difference between a union president and a corporate president. None.

Damn - yet another conservative turd that won't flush. There's a HUGE difference between a labor leader and a corporate CEO. This is yet another myth like the 47% pay no taxes myth that you libertarian types keep repeating.

Unions have nowhere near the funds that corporations have to lobby with. I have shown data repeatedly from the BLS that proves that Wal-Mart alone makes more than double in PROFIT than 100% of American labor unions take in in COMBINED GROSS REVENUE - Plus, labor law forbids dues money from being used for lobbying - so unions have to come up with funds above and beyond dues for that.

I remember somebody saying that Wall Street controls the government. I'm sure you think he's an idiot. But assuming he's right (and I think he is) then right now Wall Street IS the government. That makes your question "Do you really think Wall Street will ever do the right thing toward the American rank and file worker withgout the force of Wall Street to make them???"

No, I think you are a fucking idiot for making such an asinine statement and attempting to slip in an insult instead of having a discussion. You just don't fucking want to get it through your head that your libertarian aka repackaged-conservative ideas are what has fucked this country up so badly. And you want more of the same????

So you would give control of our healthcare to Wall Street.

Where do you come up with this shit?

Do you read your own posts?

Clearly you do not.

It sounds like you agree with me that we need to get rid of the Dept of Ed.

It's not, which is why it baffles me that you keep insisting that we need to give yet more control of the country to Wall Street.

What you want is a completely weakened government that Wall Street will steam roll even easier than they are doing right now.

And you don't pay attention for a dick. We started respectfully, and respectfully is the only way I will continue beyond this post.

Respectfully? You try and underhandedly call me an idiot and you want respect? Fuck you and the hypocritical horse you ride. Don't try and play fuck fuck with me you hypocritical 100% government paid leech that wants to cut eveybody elses pay and benefits but your own. It is real fucking easy to sit in your government job double dipping from your government pension and advocate for laissez faire capitalism for the rest of the working class.

Then first we need to get Wall Street out of Washington. To move forward before we do that would be idiocy.

That is what I have been saying all along.

I disagree. Wall Street controls Washington because it is profitable to control Washington. A weak federal government, working within the constraints set forth by the Constitution, would not be as profitable an investment.

OMFG - Are you serious? The only force that can possibly control Wall Streets $$$TRILLIONS$$$ is a reasonably strong government with laws that forbid corporations from employing 6 lobbyists for every 1 federal legislator

Do you think there was less regulation over the past 30 years? You'd be wrong. The regulation has been and continues to be focused on preventing new business from threatening established corporations, limiting competition so that they can increase their markets and profits unhindered. This is what you unwittingly are fighting for.

Time for you to name one-by-one all these regulations you claim is the problem:

What regulation was it that forced lenders to ignore sound lending practices and give out billions of $$$ with no income verification?

What regulation was it that allowed Wall Street firms to buy and sell derivitives as insurance to protect themselves from their known poor investments?

What regulation allowed derivitives to operate outside the laws that govern real insurance company contracts?

What regulation allowed Wall Street investment banking firms to KNOWINGLY sell high risk mortgage backed securities as AAA bonds?

What regulation allowed the federal government to tak a $$$TRILLION$$$ in taxpayer money and give it to the banks that made poor business decisions?

I'll stop here for now. and when you have answered those questions, I've got even more regulation questions for you to answer.

 

[Johnfromokc]

Accountable-

Looks like I may have misconstrued your intent in a couple of sections above. If that is the case, I apologize for coming back at you so harshly. :surrender

 

[alice in chains]

credit financing is what i hate most about this country and all this american dream shit is long since dead.

 

[Accountable]

Accountable-

Looks like I may have misconstrued your intent in a couple of sections above. If that is the case, I apologize for coming back at you so harshly. :surrender

I accept. Look, we agree that Wall Street has mastecized in Washington and we need to root that cancer out. Let's figure out how to do that, then we can fight about what to do next.

 

[Alien Allen]

Accountable-

Looks like I may have misconstrued your intent in a couple of sections above. If that is the case, I apologize for coming back at you so harshly. :surrender

It might help to indicate where you misunderstood and your response.

 

[Alien Allen]

credit financing is what i hate most about this country and all this american dream shit is long since dead.

Credit is a big issue

I could give an example of where somebody I know has assets that are ten times the amount of credit they are seeking on a credit card.

Yet because this person is almost 30 years old and has paid for cash for everything this person can not get credit.

If it was 5 years ago the banks would have been pissing over themselves to issue credit cards for the same person I would suspect

 

[Accountable]

It might help to indicate where you misunderstood and your response.

Help who? I'd already accepted his apology an hour before your post.