Why do Conservatives Vote Against Their Own Interests?

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Johnfromokc

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A good article from OpEd News.com.

So why do conservatives vote for politicians who legislate policies that help the wealthiest yet hurt small business and the middle class? A better question is why would any middle class or small business owning American be a conservative in the first place?

Please read the article and comment.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Why-Do-Conservatives-Vote-by-Robert-Weiner-120126-107.html

Why Do Conservatives Vote Against Their Own Interest?

By Robert Weiner Jaime Ravenet
In the Michigan Chronicle 01/26/2011

Michigan Congressman John Conyers , Dean of the Congressional Black Caucus, raised a compelling question in a conversation the other day: "Why do conservatives vote against their own interests?" If we can answer this, we might reach the common ground to solve the country's economic, debt, and growing income disparity issues.

Let's get this much out of the way: conservatives do vote against their own interests. Pundits on the right may try to undermine Conyers' question as being couched in terms that favor the Democratic Congressman's side of the aisle, but deflecting the question means explaining away historical facts. Under Democratic presidents since 1930, who pursued agendas emphasizing people programs while pressing tax breaks for middle and lower incomes and resisting tax breaks for the wealthy, the average GDP increased by 5.4%, compared to a 1.6% average GDP increase during the presidencies of their Republican counterparts. The Republicans moved to cut taxes on the wealthiest Americans and gained support by calling them "job creators."

This data from the Commerce Department and OMB proves that business and the economy boom under Democratic presidents, but bust under Republicans. The data counters the Republicans' claims that the rich tax cuts ever really "trickle down" or are good for business or anyone but the very rich. By the numbers, votes for tax-cutting Republicans since 1930 actually have been votes against businesses' financial security. "Trickle Down" has not worked since Herbert Hoover tried it and failed.

So the question stands: why do conservatives vote against themselves? Inaccurately perceived self interest seems to be the reason. People want to get money from greater tax cuts if they are already wealthy (and if they are not, they believe the Republicans' illusion that they will become rich quicker or make a company do more business by the policy). The accurate legacy of the Republicans tax-cutting agenda is smaller paychecks for the average American. The numbers are irrefutable.

The conservatives' campaigns, when candidates can take time away from attacking each other, boil down to little more than incessant repetition of vague promises to resurrect the American Dream with pure rhetoric, beating voters over the head with tax-cutting.

Recent studies from both at home and abroad detail a disturbing trend: it is now harder to transcend class in the U.S. than in our Western European counterparts like England, Denmark, and Sweden. We no longer lead in our own American dream of upward mobility. We've done it to ourselves. There is an ever-growing "mobility gap" in the U.S. keeping poor people from being able to rise while keeping the wealthiest of Americans more financially secure. For the first time in generations, it is actually easier for people at the lowest income levels in those countries, which conservatives keep attacking in the debates as "socialist", to rise than it is for Americans.

While both sides of any debate assume they are working with all the facts, conservatives are more likely to point fingers at President Obama than to address the fact that their tax-cutting programs amount to corporate welfare. As Bill Clinton says in his new book, Back to Work, the outcome of three decades of conservative fiscal policies focused on cutting taxes and deregulating industry has left voters facing high unemployment while executives collect six and seven figure bonuses. The top 1% in America increased their income 18-fold over the last 30 years while the rest of the country has stayed stagnant. The U.S. Government Accounting Office reported that tax policy favoring the rich has helped cause the income disparity and the highest poverty numbers since the Great Depression.

The Koch brothers have been exposed as major funders of the "grassroots" Tea Party movement -- and the money has meant advertising, a big influence in how voters vote. When conservatives cut taxes on corporate bosses and defund social programs, the very-very rich get richer and everybody else -- including the overwhelming majority of conservatives-- get poorer, yet conservative politicians somehow gain from that.

Conservatives campaign on promises of restoring the American Dream, but they ignore the facts concerning whom their policies actually benefit. In the end, their policies diminish overall economic mobility. When conservatives talk about "focusing on the family", what they really mean is they want you to worry about your family to deflect the economic issues that they are not solving and in fact are making worse. If you are preoccupied with your empty wallet, you are less likely to notice their sponsors' bulging pockets. The liberty conservatives espouse should actually cause them to support more equitable taxing.

So to answer Conyers' question, conservatives must be voting to make the top 1% rich because under their policies, no one else ever gets there.

Robert Weiner is a former spokesman for the Clinton White House and U.S. House Government Operations Committee under Chairman John Conyers, political assistant for Sen. Ted Kennedy, and Chief of Staff of the House Committee on Aging under Cong. Claude Pepper. Weiner recently keynoted a national conference on faith and governance at Wayne State University Law School inspired by Bankole Thompson's new book, "Obama and Christian Loyalty." Jaime Ravenet, a graduate of University of Maryland in philosophy, is Senior Economic Policy Analyst at Robert Weiner Associates.
 
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Accountable

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I agree with you, John.

So the other question stands as well: why do liberals vote against themselves? Inaccurately perceived self interest seems to be the reason. People want to get services from the government without calculating the costs, both financial and in terms of liberty. The fact that most people think there are only two choices, and that millions think that one side or the other actually work in their own interests, is testament to the power of marketing and propaganda, since voting for either side means the populace loses.
 

Johnfromokc

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I agree with you, John.

So the other question stands as well: why do liberals vote against themselves? Inaccurately perceived self interest seems to be the reason. People want to get services from the government without calculating the costs, both financial and in terms of liberty. The fact that most people think there are only two choices, and that millions think that one side or the other actually work in their own interests, is testament to the power of marketing and propaganda, since voting for either side means the populace loses.

Most educated liberals understand there is a collective price to be paid for the services overseen by government. The "something-for-nothing" rhetoric from the right is just that - rhetoric. Conservatives, OTOH, tend toward the "I got mine, screw you" attitude. The bottom line is that we are all in this economy together. Universal health care is the right and moral thing for a civilized society to engage in. And it is moral and right that the wealthiest pay in proportion to the amount they have benefitted from this civilized society.
 

Accountable

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You keep mentioning morality as concerning universal healthcare. Do you think we should be entrusting politicians with deciding what is and is not moral and reflecting those decisions in their legislation?
 

Johnfromokc

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You keep mentioning morality as concerning universal healthcare. Do you think we should be entrusting politicians with deciding what is and is not moral and reflecting those decisions in their legislation?

We The People decide that. The politicians work for us. Civil societies take care of its people - that means no one should go bankrupt because of medical bills.

A flat tax ensures that.

No - a flat tax ensures the poorest get hammered and the rich accummulate even more. The top earners in the bottom 50% make about $30,000. Lets say your flat tax was 25%. that means the $30,000 family would pay $7,500 leaving them with $22,500 to live on. A family earning 300,000 would pay $75,000 and still have $225,000 left to live on.

Try to imagine what it is like living on $1,875 per month after taxes compared to $18,750. Now tell me who faces the REAL tax burden in a flat tax scenario.
 

Accountable

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We The People decide that. The politicians work for us. Civil societies take care of its people - that means no one should go bankrupt because of medical bills.
Bankruptcy is not the death you seem to think it is. Someone else can go round the same trail with you this time.

No - a flat tax ensures the poorest get hammered and the rich accummulate even more. The top earners in the bottom 50% make about $30,000. Lets say your flat tax was 25%. that means the $30,000 family would pay $7,500 leaving them with $22,500 to live on. A family earning 300,000 would pay $75,000 and still have $225,000 left to live on.

Try to imagine what it is like living on $1,875 per month after taxes compared to $18,750. Now tell me who faces the REAL tax burden in a flat tax scenario.
Irrelevant. Wealthier people are paying more in proportion. You seem to want everybody to feel the same pain. Ain't gonna happen.
 

Johnfromokc

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Bankruptcy is not the death you seem to think it is. Someone else can go round the same trail with you this time.

Irrelevant. Wealthier people are paying more in proportion. You seem to want everybody to feel the same pain. Ain't gonna happen.

DoubleFacePalm2.jpg
 

Tim

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We The People decide that. The politicians work for us. Civil societies take care of its people - that means no one should Die because they can't afford health care.

Fixed it for you

Bankruptcy is not the death you seem to think it is. Someone else can go round the same trail with you this time.

Bankruptcy isn't the real crime, the people who die and the loved ones they leave behind are.



And as far as a flat tax goes... probably the most unfair system there is. This is why we have a progressive tax rate as it should be.
 

Tim

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No one can define fair in a national sense. The best they can do is define equal or proportionate.


Please tell me that you aren't serious, at the very least that you didn't think it through before you typed it out.
 

Tim

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The way you are trying to define the term "fair" officially takes it out of the conversation.

Using your logic, you cannot define what is fair within a group of three people let alone on a national scale.
 

Tim

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So why be disingenuous and even take the conversation there?

When we talk about taxes, when we talk about society as a whole and you use the term fair, it's about the fairness as a whole.

There is no such thing as "fair" when you are talking about groups of people. But you know that. But it's completely acceptable to talk about fairness when used in the concept of community... but you know that as well.
 

Accountable

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So why be disingenuous and even take the conversation there?

When we talk about taxes, when we talk about society as a whole and you use the term fair, it's about the fairness as a whole.

There is no such thing as "fair" when you are talking about groups of people. But you know that. But it's completely acceptable to talk about fairness when used in the concept of community... but you know that as well.
I'm not being disingenuous. Using the term "fair" when talking about gov't force, taxes, etc is being disingenuous. It's nothing more than political spin, a la Patriot Act et al. Call it equality, proportionate, or any number of similar terms, but fair it is not.
 

alice in chains

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ok I'll say what I think about the topic.

Liberals and Conservatives alike vote against their own political interests because they hold some values personally sacred. A poor conservative may feel he deserves to not have things as easy as a higher income person because he has not earned that privilege. That is truly a Conservative mindset. A rich Democrat might feel a sense of duty to working class folk who cannot get a break.

Me however, I have no faith in politics at all and vote only for what I think will make things as financially easy as posssible for myself.
 

MoonOwl

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We'll soon see whom FloriDuh votes for that is against their interests. Unless of course, Ron wins our primary ;)
 
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