Whose you Favorite Lying Sack? :)
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No, I'm completely unsurprised that "non-partisan" but completely overlooking reality fact-check came up with that conclusion. Just like how they've whitewashed nearly everything to do with Dear Leader Obama since he showed up on the scene.
It is reality, not a myth, that any system allocating scarce resources, especially with virtually unlimited demand like health care has, there WILL be rationing. There has to be or there will be shortages. Thats the way actual physical systems work. There is no way around it unless you manage to invent the magical health care machine that cures all ills instantly and requires no resources to run....
The question is what type of rationing are we willing to put up with. Rationing decided by price mechanism? Rationing by insurance deciding what they will pay for? Rationing by wait times? Rationing by some gov't flunky who can virtually never ever lose his job no matter what?
Now lets assume for a minute that you pick the last two options, ratining by wait time or gov't fiat rationing, which with gov't footing the bill, you're going to get one or both because otherwise price spirals out of control and those are the only two options available to gov't.
Lets use some logical reasoning. If gov't is rationing to cut costs, and a large proportion of expensive treatments are utilized on our seniors, then who is going to suffer the most from cost control rationing? Seniors. That rationing of care for seniors will necessarily entail a gov't role in end of life decisions as lack of care for a senior can easily result in death.
It is reality, not a myth, that any system allocating scarce resources, especially with virtually unlimited demand like health care has, there WILL be rationing. There has to be or there will be shortages. Thats the way actual physical systems work. There is no way around it unless you manage to invent the magical health care machine that cures all ills instantly and requires no resources to run....
The question is what type of rationing are we willing to put up with. Rationing decided by price mechanism? Rationing by insurance deciding what they will pay for? Rationing by wait times? Rationing by some gov't flunky who can virtually never ever lose his job no matter what?
Now lets assume for a minute that you pick the last two options, ratining by wait time or gov't fiat rationing, which with gov't footing the bill, you're going to get one or both because otherwise price spirals out of control and those are the only two options available to gov't.
Lets use some logical reasoning. If gov't is rationing to cut costs, and a large proportion of expensive treatments are utilized on our seniors, then who is going to suffer the most from cost control rationing? Seniors. That rationing of care for seniors will necessarily entail a gov't role in end of life decisions as lack of care for a senior can easily result in death.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
At least you did not blurt "YOU LIE!"
What kind of rationing do you prefer? Not to put you on the spot but for some perspective do you currently have health insurance? (I do.) Would you describe it as good or bad? (Mine has been pretty good but is sinking fast.) Have the costs been steadily rising as long as you've had it? (Mine has gone up astronomically over a 20 year period.)
Would you prefer a system based on covering the majority of citizens especially children, or an every-person-for-themselves system, as in- I'm covered, don't mess my deal up?
I prefer a system where most people don't face bankruptcy when faced with a major illness. I could say I have decent insurance, I don't care about anyone else. But I'm worried that even for me insurance is rising to the point of not being affordable. So how do we fix that?
I'm pretty sure the Republican Party does not want to fix anything. They are so intent on keeping costs under control, keeping corporations profitable, they don't want to consider much of anything that just helps people. Instead of worrying about citizens they represent, they'd be more than happy to dismantle both SS and Medicare and allow you when sick to just crawl in a gutter and die.
What kind of system would you like to see? What kind of reforms need to be done to make this a working health care system for a majority of citizens? How do we keep for-profit SOB health provider corporations from sucking us dry?
Where are you getting your facts that "most" people face bankruptcy when facing a major illness? I'm genuinely curious about that. I've had many family members face major illnesses, and not one of them went bankrupt. My grandma contracted a bizzare form of cancer that was only discovered due to an appendectomy, she ended up having to have chemo done and then had to fly to D.C. to have a surgery done because the doctor there was one of only three in the nation that had ever done surgery with this type of cancer before. She recovered, and has been just fine for the last 15 years. This was all before she reached the age for Medicare BTW.
My grandpa died of the same brain tumor than Ted Kennedy did... but he only lasted 5 months from his diagnosis to his death. He went through chemo, radiation, and all types of other therapies. He wasn't on Medicare at the time, and my grandma didn't go bankrupt because of it.
I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point by now. I have plenty of other stories of both family and friends who have had what most people would consider to be "major" illnesses or physical ailments, and they haven't gone bankrupt in treating them.
Fine, then I'm going to say that the Democrats aren't concerned with fixing anything either... they just want to extend the power of government to encompass health care as well in order to facilitate their ever reaching power grab. You'll say that I'm wrong and that the liberals are the only people who care about their constituents, and blah blah blah. I'll point you in the direction of a Republican who does care about his constituents, both for health care, and their general well being... which is more than I can say about a lot of democrats. Go look up Devin Nunes, and you won't have to look far because I've posted about him. He's put forth a health care bill along with other republican members of the house, and he's been trying to take care of his constituents on the west side of the valley here who are without jobs because of the bullshit man-made drought out here that exists because of a freaking little bait fish. But I digress.I'm pretty sure the Republican Party does not want to fix anything. They are so intent on keeping costs under control, keeping corporations profitable, they don't want to consider much of anything that just helps people. Instead of worrying about citizens they represent, they'd be more than happy to dismantle both SS and Medicare and allow you when sick to just crawl in a gutter and die.
What I just said doesn't differ from what you said at all... in fact, what I said probably has more weight, because I backed it up with facts rather than your hearsay and generalizations.
I've already posted about the ad- nauseaum at this point in time... it doesn't matter, because everything that any one of us posts that doesn't include government run health care is immediately discarded as not being a good enough option for y'all. So there really isn't a point, is there. You've been confronted with facts on God only knows how many occasions, and you chose to respond to facts with more hearsay, generalizations, and out and out untruths.
You're operating under the assumption that all insurance companies are evil... because of your own flawed understanding of the system. Therefore your view is skewed from the beginning, and you're thus unwilling or perhaps even unable to listen to any opinions other than those that agree with your own.
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Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Got it, I'm flawed, your not. I'm skewed, your not. The government is incapable of doing anything right, for-profit corporations are the answer because those people are pure as the driven snow. And so the kettle indignantly calls the pot black. I could accuse you of living in your own philosophical reality. :humm:
BTW, what happened to the 1000 character limit for the post prior to this, was that bad idea lifted or just in certain forums?
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Got it, I'm flawed, your not. I'm skewed, your not. So the kettle indignantly calls the pot black. I could accuse you of living in your own philosophical reality. :humm:
BTW, what happened to the 1000 character limit for the post prior to this, was that bad idea lifted or just in certain forums?
I was merely using similar arguments to what I've seen you in the past, only in a much more overt manner. My point was that you have your opinion and we all have our own. You think insurance companies are the root of all evil and only exist to bleed money from the poor citizens, while more government is the solution to everyone's problems. Whereas people like myself believe that private companies and competition are good things and that more government is bad and counter-productive.
I'm not sure about the 1,000 limit... I hope it's gone, that was freaking annoying.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Wait-just-a-minute, what is this "you" (as in single) and "we"(as in plural) stuff?? Granted the forum has been over run with conservative ideology freaks, but that does not mean you are representative of majority view in this country.
Regarding sound decisions, who did you vote for in 2004??At least you did not blurt "YOU LIE!"
What kind of rationing do you prefer? Not to put you on the spot but for some perspective do you currently have health insurance? (I do.) Would you describe it as good or bad? (Mine has been pretty good but is sinking fast.) Have the costs been steadily rising as long as you've had it? (Mine has gone up astronomically over a 20 year period.)
Would you prefer a system based on covering the majority of citizens especially children, or an every-person-for-themselves system, as in- I'm covered, don't mess my deal up?
I prefer a system where most people don't face bankruptcy when faced with a major illness. I could say I have decent insurance, I don't care about anyone else. But I'm worried that even for me insurance is rising to the point of not being affordable. So how do we fix that?
I'm pretty sure the Republican Party does not want to fix anything. They are so intent on keeping costs under control, keeping corporations profitable, they don't want to consider much of anything that just helps people. Instead of worrying about citizens they represent, they'd be more than happy to dismantle both SS and Medicare and allow you when sick to just crawl in a gutter and die.
What kind of system would you like to see? What kind of reforms need to be done to make this a working health care system for a majority of citizens? How do we keep for-profit SOB health provider corporations from sucking us dry?
You wanna fix things, here's how you do it. And it doesn't involve the gov't getting more involved, quite the opposite actually.
1. Remove the employer tax break for health insurance and change it to a individual tax credit that people can use to get their own insurance.
2. Culturally shift to catastraphic health insurance rather than insulation. $5k+ deductible.
3. Insititute a medical savings account similar to a 401(k) that people can pay into pre-tax and only draw out without penalty for health expenses. This allows people to build up a buffer of cash for health care that can grow year to year. People pay in when they're young and healthy and they've got a lot of money when they're old and sick.
4. Scrap medicare and medicaid and replace it with a single, effective, means tested subsidy program for anyone regardless of age. This should also have a provision to cover pre-existing conditions that would make insurance cost prohibitive but it would ONLY cover the pre-existing for the person. They would still have to buy their own insurance for other issues.
Those 4 steps could cover everyone, even the indigent, keep medical decisions to between the dr and patient, cover everything from routine care to the catastrophic, drive down overall health care costs and not require us to dump extra billions into another gov't program thats bound to get FUBARed in short order.
Wait-just-a-minute, what is this "you" (as in single) and "we"(as in plural) stuff?? Granted the forum has been over run with conservative ideology freaks, but that does not mean you are representative of majority view in this country.
I said "you" because I was referring to you, and I said "we" because I was referring to the number of people on this forum that have expressed the same concerns and viewpoints as I did. Furthermore, the only freaks around here are the ones that think the government is the solution to every problem
Oh, and I voted for Bob Barr... the candidate whose ideology most closely fit with my own and who I felt would do the best job. McCain was GWB lite, and Obama was (and is) a liberal radical.
I said "you" because I was referring to you, and I said "we" because I was referring to the number of people on this forum that have expressed the same concerns and viewpoints as I did. Furthermore, the only freaks around here are the ones that think the government is the solution to every problem
Oh, and I voted for Bob Barr... the candidate whose ideology most closely fit with my own and who I felt would do the best job. McCain was GWB lite, and Obama was (and is) a liberal radical.
Barr didn't run in '04 ret
Personally I voted for Badnarick in '04...
Barr didn't run in '04 ret
Personally I voted for Badnarick in '04...
oh geez, brain fart there... I read '04 and thought '08. I voted for Badnarik in '08 as well, for roughly the same reasons as I voted for Barr in '04.
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
Communication problem, that is how your answers come across.
The real intent of this post is to say that's one beautiful guitar as your avatar. Is that a hollow body and who makes it?Communication problem, that is how your answers come across.
Not a communication problem, it's an understanding problem... or a fundamental lacking of the ability to understand or even listen to anyone's viewpoint but your own.
As for the guitar, it's not actually mine... it just looks exactly like mine (only mine doesn't have any strings on it right now). It's a solid body Epiphone Les Paul Studio
Barack Obama , through his spokesman, claimed today that he was unaware of the tax day tea parties. Granted, the main stream media has done a good job in suppressing any sort of coverage ahead of time (and the little coverage they did provide was derisive at best)… but how out of touch is the Community Organizer in Chief, really?
This much.-
He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this guy.
Jess L. Reed
USNavy/RETired
This much.-
He was unaware that he was attending a church (for 20 years) with a racist pastor who hates America .
- He was unaware that he was family friends with, and started his political career in the living room of, a domestic terrorist.
- He was unaware that he had invested in two speculative companies backed by some of his top donors right after taking office in 2005.
- He was unaware that his own aunt was living in the US illegally.
- He was unaware that his own brother lives on pennies a day in a hut in Kenya .
- He was unaware of the AIG bonuses that he and his administration approved and signed into a bill.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Commerce was under investigation in a bribery scandal..
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of Health and Human Services was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be his Secretary of the Treasury was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be the U.S. Trade Representative was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the woman he nominated to be his Chief Performance Officer was a tax cheat.
- He was unaware that the man he nominated to be #2 at the Environmental Protection Agency was under investigation for mismanaging $25 million in EPA grants.
For the love of God, there are people in comas that are more aware of world affairs than this guy.
Jess L. Reed
USNavy/RETired
Yea--what's his name? Van Jones? Unbelievable. Another czar---what are up to now, about 35? Doesn't just the word "czar" bother anyone?
Minor Axis
Well-Known Member
My comment was followed by a
, if it makes any difference or if you missed it or if you are too angry to care. And you are repeating yourself. By your posts, you have no tolerance for anyone's view point but your own, but like accusing others hypocritically, besides being unable to relax enough for a casual reply about a guitar. This forum is boiling over with hyperbole. You (all) can rag at each other while I take a break.There are so many liars it's hard to just pick one. It would be easier for me to pick a TruthTeller.
Ron Paul.
:clap:thumbup
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