What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

[skyblue]

heaven and hell are in the mind,you do something good and you feel good,you do something bad and you feel bad

 

[doombug]

If so, and death to a non-believer is the only time full disclosure of God's existence is given, then all non-believers will choose God and the need for a hell disappears.

I believe that is when it is too late. It looks as though the time to choose is when one is alive and can choose what to do with their life.

Free will says that God would not force anyone so neutral is part of any choice. If not, any intelligent soul will just wait it out at heaven and hell's gates.

Neutral is a choice and carries consequences as well. If you would read the source where you concoct your false premises you would see this.

Comparing what humans do for self-protection or deterrent has no relevance to what happens after death. Do not deflect.

But you are holding God to a human standard of justice. Reciprocity is fair play GIA don't be a hypocrite.

Your rehabilitation is relevant though as I said above and you called not true. Once someone in hell is repentant or rehabilitated,what is the purpose of continuing the torture?

If someone murders a bus load of children and gets the death penalty do they get to bypass their sentence if they become "repentant"? The answer is no.

Cherry picking.

Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking) epart from me,you who are cursed,into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. Mat 23:33 You serpents,you brood of vipers,how are you to escape being sentenced to hell? Rev 21:8 But to the fearful and unbelieving,and sinners , and those who make themselves abominable,and murderers,and fornicators,and sorcerers,and idolaters, and all liars,their part is in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Cherry picking? Do I need to quote the whole bible for you? Do your own leg work.

And where does it say there will be torture in hell forever for human souls? It seems "the second death" means permanent destruction. Thanks for proving my point.

Why would God kill the souls he is said to love? He can just as easily cure them. Why take the moral low ground when the high ground is just as easy for him to take?

That depends on how you interpret scriptures.

Does God kill the souls or do humans make the choice. Without free will and ability to make a choice humans are puppets. We were created to choose to love God or not because true love can only be given by choice. Why else would humans be sentient creatures.

And tell us how YOU interpret the scriptures GIA.

If so, how many do you think would be insane enough to choose torture over heaven? If insane, would God not cure them instead of torturing or killing?

The choice is there and being insane has nothing to do with it. Being willing to search for the truth with an open mind is all one needs. Many don't want to see the truth.

Hearsay and book say does not prove anything of a God who cannot be fathomed. To take literally a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster, which the original authors did not take literally is silly. It is a book of myths.

And yet you use it to concoct your premises. If the book is a silly myth then so are your premises.

Back up the existence of either God or hell or you imaginary lake of fire and I will show my proofs.

Reciprocity is fair play. Right?

Regards
DL

Reciprocity? Where am I making such silly claims as you. There is nothing for me to prove because I am not preaching nonsense like you are. I have at least provided scripture to show my point what have you provided other than your own delusional opinions.

 

[BornReady]

Why is it that a horrible person can commit a Mortal Sin, repent and accept Jesus on or near their deathbed, and expect to be accepted into Heaven?

Good question but I don't have a good answer. Easy redemption is a disturbing twist in Christianity and Islam. Catholics get around this with the concept of purgatory. If you do something really horrible then you have to go to purgatory for awhile before going to heaven. The problem with purgatory is that torturing someone with fire or in any other way can not be justified. It doesn't matter what they did. People who commit horrible crimes are mentally defective. Surely an all-powerful god could fix them without torturing them. Torture doesn't make people good. But it may make them bad.

I like skyblue's view of heaven and hell.

heaven and hell are in the mind,you do something good and you feel good,you do something bad and you feel bad

 

[Joe the meek]

I like skyblue's view of heaven and hell.

I'd like to think that in death, you spend eternity the way you've lead your life.

One thing that you may notice if you ever spend time around people who are near death and have died, is that they usually face death the way they lived their life.

 

[Greatest I am]

Me? Personally, a pedophile is never rehabilitated; they are merely broken from the start. And that's another point I don't understand about "The Church" (input religion of choice there). Why is it that a horrible person can commit a Mortal Sin, repent and accept Jesus on or near their deathbed, and expect to be accepted into Heaven?

That has never made sense to me. I was raised religious, but have examined it from a variety of aspects, and pretty much consider myself to be probably agnostic these days.

No one can blame you for that. Religions have done a poor job of selling their Gods.
As to death bed conversions, trust that if there is a God, which is not likely, at least not the Gods on offer, that he would know that that conversion is motivated by fear of death and would be ignored by any God worth the name.

That aside, why be concerned with others?

If you seek a God, your concern should be you and it. Not it and others.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

I believe that is when it is too late. It looks as though the time to choose is when one is alive and can choose what to do with their life.

Then your belief is in an immoral God who wants the most important decision of your life to be made without full disclosure of all the facts.

Neutral is a choice and carries consequences as well. If you would read the source where you concoct your false premises you would see this.

Then if you want me to know, do not just chastise my lack of knowledge. A good man would inform.

But you are holding God to a human standard of justice. Reciprocity is fair play GIA don't be a hypocrite.

I only know human standards. I am human.
Can you know the standards of an un-fathomable God?
Impossible. It is guess work.

If someone murders a bus load of children and gets the death penalty do they get to bypass their sentence if they become "repentant"? The answer is no.

What does this human standard have to do with anything?
You tell me not to use human standards and then throw one at me. WTH.

Cherry picking? Do I need to quote the whole bible for you? Do your own leg work.

And where does it say there will be torture in hell forever for human souls? It seems "the second death" means permanent destruction. Thanks for proving my point.

I did not prove a second death. You have to do so yourself. I just quoted a myth.

Does God kill the souls or do humans make the choice

.

Where does it say that man can kill souls?

Without free will and ability to make a choice humans are puppets.

True. But if that free will says do it my way or burn forever, which it does, then that makes man a slave.

We were created to choose to love God or not because true love can only be given by choice. Why else would humans be sentient creatures.

Love, like faith, is dead without deeds and works.
If God wants our love then he should stop hiding in the bush and pop up.

And tell us how YOU interpret the scriptures GIA.

Which one?

The choice is there and being insane has nothing to do with it.

How droll. Does your sanity not mean anything to you?

Being willing to search for the truth with an open mind is all one needs.

Yet you think you have found it in a book of myths and have closed your mind.

Many don't want to see the truth.

Really. Show the stats.

And yet you use it to concoct your premises. If the book is a silly myth then so are your premises.



Reciprocity? Where am I making such silly claims as you. There is nothing for me to prove because I am not preaching nonsense like you are. I have at least provided scripture to show my point what have you provided other than your own delusional opinions.

And what you have concocted from a book of myths is not a delusion. Ok.
You have built a theology from a book with talking animals and I am delusional. Ok.

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

Just because you "feel something" you go and latch onto someone else fairy tale?

You would be just as correct to believe in "the force" as you would be in believing "the bible"
But because you "feel something" you need to apply some logical story or fairy tale to it... The problem is, these fairy tales were concocted by someone else and you just here them and try to fit them into your "feeling"

There is a HUGE leap to go from a "feeling" to trying to explain it through others interpretations. Or to assign explanation to that "feeling"

As I've repeated told you I don't use feelings to interpret (at least not with any certainty or specificity), I have not latched onto anything, and I have not reached the level of belief... just discussing a feeling.

 

[doombug]

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

Well GIA you refuse to answer any questions. Maybe it is just too much for you to handle. So I'll make it simple and ask you one question that pertains to your premise: How did you come to the conclusion there is "everlasting punishment" in hell?

BTW, if you could learn to use the "quote" function properly that would be great.

 

[Tuffdisc]

And what you have concocted from a book of myths is not a delusion. Ok.
You have built a theology from a book with talking animals and I am delusional. Ok.

Regards
DL

I think there are a lot of people who think you are delusional, your username speaks for itself
Your signature proves a lot as well

About the talking animals, there is only one instance of "talking animal" please note there is ONE not more than that and it is purely symbolic as to why we all die in the end. Clearly can't count or even get your facts right....typical

 

[Tuffdisc]

Me? Personally, a pedophile is never rehabilitated; they are merely broken from the start. And that's another point I don't understand about "The Church" (input religion of choice there). Why is it that a horrible person can commit a Mortal Sin, repent and accept Jesus on or near their deathbed, and expect to be accepted into Heaven?

That has never made sense to me. I was raised religious, but have examined it from a variety of aspects, and pretty much consider myself to be probably agnostic these days.

Anyone can be rehabilitated, everyone can repent from their sins (wrong doings) for you to say that paedophiles can't be rehabilitated is just pure fantasy for people who want an excuse to bully people

 

[CityGirl]

One thing that you may notice if you ever spend time around people who are near death and have died, is that they usually face death the way they lived their life.

?????? I've attended the dying and been at the bedside as they died more times than I care to count and I don't have a clue what you are saying here.

 

[Minor Axis]

I'd like to think that in death, you spend eternity the way you've lead your life.

I'm sorry but this sounds judgmental and it feels like traditional religious doctrine- one life to get it right, reward or damnation for eternity. I like to think if consciousness continues by way of reincarnation or other means, you have the opportunity to see the error of your ways, learn, and improve yourself. I don't buy into damnation forever. It's a simplistic human concept.

One thing that you may notice if you ever spend time around people who are near death and have died, is that they usually face death the way they lived their life.

What do you mean exactly? My first impression is that it is just a sweeping meaningless generalization.

 

[darkcgi]

its kinda like the oracle in the matrix
he says to us only what we need to hear

 

[Tim]

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

How did you come to the conclusion there is "everlasting punishment" in hell?

You know it's quite simple to search for yourself. Many Christians believe Hell is for eternity. A lake of fire that you will burn in for ALL OF ETERNITY. This belief is held by Evangelical Christians, Baptists, Catholics, and many more...
Don't believe it? Just go to their websites on the topic of hell.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm
Just scroll down to where is asks if hell is eternal and it will give you all the biblical support you are asking for.

From Religion Facts
http://www.religionfacts.com/christianity/beliefs/hell.htm

In Christian theology, hell is the place or state into which unrepentant sinners pass after this life. Hell is generally thought to be eternal, and to include both punishment and separation from God.

I can continue if you like... there are hundreds of religious sites that very clearly point out that hell is eternal suffering and back it up with biblical proof...

 

[doombug]

You know it's quite simple to search for yourself. Many Christians believe Hell is for eternity. A lake of fire that you will burn in for ALL OF ETERNITY. This belief is held by Evangelical Christians, Baptists, Catholics, and many more...
Don't believe it? Just go to their websites on the topic of hell.

The question isn't if hell was designed to be eternal it is where the premise of eternal PUNISHMENT came from.

I can continue if you like... there are hundreds of religious sites that very clearly point out that hell is eternal suffering and back it up with biblical proof...

Eternal suffering for who? I have seen scripture that states for Satan and his demons but not human souls.

In Christian theology, hell is the place or state into which unrepentant sinners pass after this life. Hell is generally thought to be eternal, and to include both punishment and separation from God.

But there is still no mention of eternal punishment for human souls. This is GIA's premise and should be backed up by him yet he remains silent while others speak for him, pathetic. If he has this idea then he knows how he arrived at his conclusion. He does not answer so he must have made it up.

 

[Tim]

You wanted proof from the scriptures, I gave it to you.

Go back and read the article from my very first link. It clearly shows that hell is eternal damnation for us... not just satan and his followers.

You can believe it or not, I don't give a shit. Hell, I don't believe in hell for the same reasons I don't believe in Narnia.

 

[Minor Axis]

The question isn't if hell was designed to be eternal it is where the premise of eternal PUNISHMENT came from.

Eternal suffering for who? I have seen scripture that states for Satan and his demons but not human souls.

But there is still no mention of eternal punishment for human souls. This is GIA's premise and should be backed up by him yet he remains silent while others speak for him, pathetic. If he has this idea then he knows how he arrived at his conclusion. He does not answer so he must have made it up.

I was raised Christian and all during my religious life, it was hammered home that Hell is for the sinners who don't make it into heaven because they did not admit that Jesus is their savior and did not ask for forgiveness. It's pretty much an established cornerstone of Christian dogma.

You can believe it or not, I don't give a shit. Hell, I don't believe in hell for the same reasons I don't believe in Narnia.

Don't you bad mouth Narnia. I'm considering spending my spiritual Summers there.

 

[CityGirl]

You wanted proof from the scriptures, I gave it to you.

Go back and read the article from my very first link. It clearly shows that hell is eternal damnation for us... not just satan and his followers.

You can believe it or not, I don't give a shit. Hell, I don't believe in hell for the same reasons I don't believe in Narnia.

It was my understanding in my christian upbringing that if you didn't accept Christ you were one of "his followers" by default.

 

[doombug]

I was raised Christian and all during my religious life, it was hammered home that Hell is for the sinners who don't make it into heaven because they did not admit that Jesus is their savior and did not ask for forgiveness. It's pretty much an established cornerstone of Christian dogma.

Maybe so but where is the scripture to back it up?

 

[doombug]

You wanted proof from the scriptures, I gave it to you.

Go back and read the article from my very first link. It clearly shows that hell is eternal damnation for us... not just satan and his followers.

You can believe it or not, I don't give a shit. Hell, I don't believe in hell for the same reasons I don't believe in Narnia.

I can go to GIA's article if I want to read an article I asked for scripture. Maybe the bible burns your eyes when you try to read it.