What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

[Greatest I am]

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

My premise is that God would not create anything that is purposeless.
If God’s everlasting hell is not serving a purpose, God would not create it since scripture says that God created all things for his pleasure and for himself.

Punishment is usually given to change ideas, attitudes and actions of a sinner.
If punishment is given for any other reason, then it is being given without an altruistic purpose and would be given out of a sense of cruelty.

Is there an altruistic purpose for God creating hell?

If no good result is to be gained from everlasting punishment, is it just for God to give it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA_K5BZmQFM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple questions for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions is to result?

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Regards
DL

 

[Tim]

Hell is one of the main reasons I am an atheist.

People who do believe in hell and that people will suffer an eternity in it have absolutely no concept of what eternity really is or how sadistic the concept of eternal suffering is.

 

[CityGirl]

It is a tool of control. God the Machiavellian. It is better to be feared than to be loved... For many believers, their faith is a fire insurance policy were it not for the fear of unbelief they might not believe at all.

 

[Greatest I am]

Hell is one of the main reasons I am an atheist.

People who do believe in hell and that people will suffer an eternity in it have absolutely no concept of what eternity really is or how sadistic the concept of eternal suffering is.

+ 1

If they are blind enough to follow a genocidal maniac then it is doubtful that they will recognize sadism.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

It is a tool of control. God the Machiavellian. It is better to be feared than to be loved... For many believers, their faith is a fire insurance policy were it not for the fear of unbelief they might not believe at all.

Yes. They do not realize that if their God exists, then he would know that they are hypocrites.
They must have weird minds.

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

What is the purpose of an everlasting punishment in hell?

The bible seems to make hell out to be a choice for mankind. Choosing God gets one out of such "punishment".

My premise is that God would not create anything that is purposeless.
If God’s everlasting hell is not serving a purpose, God would not create it since scripture says that God created all things for his pleasure and for himself.

If human beings were given free will to choose there is no choice without hell. It does serve a purpose.

Punishment is usually given to change ideas, attitudes and actions of a sinner.
If punishment is given for any other reason, then it is being given without an altruistic purpose and would be given out of a sense of cruelty.

Not true. Punishment in our judicial system is also seen as a deterrent against crime. It not only serves to rehabilitate those who commit crimes but deter others from following the same path.

Is there an altruistic purpose for God creating hell?

If no good result is to be gained from everlasting punishment, is it just for God to give it?

From what I have seen only Satan and his "angels" receive everlasting punishment. Hell was prepared for Satan and his "angels": Matthew 25:41,"Then he will say to those on his left,'Depart from me,you who are cursed,into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple questions for yourself.

1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?

This indicates the body and soul will be destroyed in hell not spend eternity being tortured:
Matt 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?

Does the bible say all will receive the same punishment? You are assuming details without proof.

3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions is to result?

Again, there are indications in the bible that hell will be the "second death" as in destroying the soul: "The lake of fire is the second death". (Revelation 20:14)

Also, hell seems to be a choice humans make on their own since we are free willed beings. Humans know the choices and the consequences.

4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?

As I pointed out earlier the bible indicates hell as being the "second death". Your premise is false.

Is hell a moral construct or not?

Regards
DL

Hell is a choice for free willed beings to choose or not. You want to say God is such an evil and unjust entity to have even created such a place which is incorrect. Without hell how does one choose heaven. Sounds like you are preaching a false teaching without backing up what you assume.

 

[BornReady]

Hell is a choice for free willed beings to choose or not.

I enjoy a lot of your posts doombug but this one disappoints me. Saying it's a choice is a cop out. No one wants to be tortured. If God has or will torture anyone then he can not be trusted. He may even decide to torture you for no reason. Actually there is no reason to ever torture anyone imo. Conditionalists (i.e. Christians who believe in conditional immortality) have addressed this problem. Their doctrine seems unreasonable to me too. But at least it isn't sadistic.

 

[doombug]

I enjoy a lot of your posts doombug but this one disappoints me. Saying it's a choice is a cop out. No one wants to be tortured. If God has or will torture anyone then he can not be trusted. He may even decide to torture you for no reason. Actually there is no reason to ever torture anyone imo. Conditionalists (i.e. Christians who believe in conditional immortality) have addressed this problem. Their doctrine seems unreasonable to me too. But at least it isn't sadistic.

That's understandable BornReady but since humans have a choice it is up to humans whether or not they want "eternal life" as it is put or the option of hell. The numbers of how many will be sent to hell is determined by how many humans make the choice. And again, I really haven't seen anything about being tortured forever in hell. This is something GIA has dreamed up apparently.
If you have noticed GIA hardly ever backs up any premise he makes he only declares it to be true.

 

[Minor Axis]

Hell is a choice for free willed beings to choose or not. You want to say God is such an evil and unjust entity to have even created such a place which is incorrect. Without hell how does one choose heaven. Sounds like you are preaching a false teaching without backing up what you assume.

I believe that Hell and the God of the Bible is the invention of Man- a simplistic metaphor that tries to make sense of our relationship with the divine, whatever that is. What makes you assume there are just two choices, God or Hell? Before all else, you must determine if the choices are valid.

And lets for a moment assume that God is all wise and powerful and functions as described in your favorite Holy Book. Is this the choice he/she/it would frame for man- choose me because if you don't you'll burn forever? Wouldn't you think that God would want humans to make their choice truly based on real free will and not on the threat of punishment? Do you think this is the kind of people, (people who make a choice based on threats and punishment avoidence), that God wants hanging out in Heaven? Are these the superior people? My point is, humans have grossly over simplified the situation to a point of where the choice as promoted by human based religion is meaningless.

BTW, do you believe in Hell?

 

[Panacea]

Hell plays beautifully into the crevices of human fear. It is the most obvious blanket method of social control; breed doubt, breed shame, breed fear, and set it at the highest price possible. I think humans are opportunists, and the hell concept proves that. It's far too simple to be believed, however.

 

[Tim]

to make sense of our relationship with the divine, whatever that is.

How can you possibly have a "relationship" with something that you don't even know what it is?
That's as absurd as believing in an eternal lake of fire where non-believers will be punished...

 

[Minor Axis]

How can you possibly have a "relationship" with something that you don't even know what it is?
That's as absurd as believing in an eternal lake of fire where non-believers will be punished...

Tisk, tisk, Tim. A lot of people obviously believe there is a relationship. It's for the rest of us to decide *if* there is a relationship and *if* there is, what it's significance is.

You who are so grounded into what you can see, touch,and feel. My advice is don't automatically be disdain of fanciful spiritual concepts just because you see no evidence. I frequently feel something and I freely admit, I don't know what it is. Lets use a Star Wars premise- "The Force". I love the idea of the force. Can't say I believe, but don't try to make me feel bad because I'd like there to be something other than oblivion. Just because you live in a sound proof room without windows, don't believe you have it all figured out and understand the truth of our existence.

 

[Tim]

Just because you "feel something" you go and latch onto someone else fairy tale?

You would be just as correct to believe in "the force" as you would be in believing "the bible"
But because you "feel something" you need to apply some logical story or fairy tale to it... The problem is, these fairy tales were concocted by someone else and you just here them and try to fit them into your "feeling"

There is a HUGE leap to go from a "feeling" to trying to explain it through others interpretations. Or to assign explanation to that "feeling"

 

[Greatest I am]

The bible seems to make hell out to be a choice for mankind. Choosing God gets one out of such "punishment".

If so, and death to a non-believer is the only time full disclosure of God's existence is given, then all non-believers will choose God and the need for a hell disappears.

If human beings were given free will to choose there is no choice without hell. It does serve a purpose.

Free will says that God would not force anyone so neutral is part of any choice.
If not, any intelligent soul will just wait it out at heaven and hell's gates.

Not true. Punishment in our judicial system is also seen as a deterrent against crime. It not only serves to rehabilitate those who commit crimes but deter others from following the same path.

Comparing what humans do for self-protection or deterrent has no relevance to what happens after death. Do not deflect.
Your rehabilitation is relevant though as I said above and you called not true.
Once someone in hell is repentant or rehabilitated, what is the purpose of continuing the torture?

From what I have seen only Satan and his "angels" receive everlasting punishment.

Cherry picking.

Matthew 25:41 (Jesus speaking)epart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Mat 23:33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?
Rev 21:8 But to the fearful and unbelieving, and sinners , and those who make themselves abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone; which is the second death.

Hell was prepared for Satan and his "angels": Matthew 25:41,"Then he will say to those on his left,'Depart from me,you who are cursed,into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

See above.

This indicates the body and soul will be destroyed in hell not spend eternity being tortured:
Matt 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear Him Which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

That depends on how you interpret scriptures.

Does the bible say all will receive the same punishment? You are assuming details without proof.

You are assuming various levels without proof.

Again, there are indications in the bible that hell will be the "second death" as in destroying the soul: "The lake of fire is the second death". (Revelation 20:14)
Why would God kill the souls he is said to love?
He can just as easily cure them.
Why take the moral low ground when the high ground is just as easy for him to take?

Also, hell seems to be a choice humans make on their own since we are free willed beings. Humans know the choices and the consequences.

If so, how many do you think would be insane enough to choose torture over heaven?
If insane, would God not cure them instead of torturing or killing?

As I pointed out earlier the bible indicates hell as being the "second death". Your premise is false.

Hearsay and book say does not prove anything of a God who cannot be fathomed.
To take literally a book that begins with a talking snake and ends with a seven headed monster, which the original authors did not take literally is silly. It is a book of myths.

Hell is a choice for free willed beings to choose or not.

This foolish notion is dealt with above.

You want to say God is such an evil and unjust entity to have even created such a place which is incorrect. Without hell how does one choose heaven. Sounds like you are preaching a false teaching without backing up what you assume.

Back up the existence of either God or hell or you imaginary lake of fire and I will show my proofs.

Reciprocity is fair play. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

+ 1

If they are blind enough to follow a genocidal maniac then it is doubtful that they will recognize sadism.

Regards
DL

I ask this question once more, I will then leave it to the fact you wouldn't want to answer because you are stuck in a 20/20 situation that you can't answer:

The Question is: Would you accept a paedophile in your home?

 

[Tuffdisc]

Whoa, G.I.A. chickened out answering the question

 

[Greatest I am]

Whoa, G.I.A. chickened out answering the question

Define the term and I will see.

Active.

Ex.


Rehabilitated.


Any kids in the hous.

Give some details fool.

You might also note how fucking childish you look but I am sure that will go right by your ilk who is so eager to make a small win that you will not notice how big a loser you are.

Regards
DL

 

[Tuffdisc]

Define the term and I will see.

Active.

Ex.


Rehabilitated.


Any kids in the hous.

Give some details fool.

You might also note how fucking childish you look but I am sure that will go right by your ilk who is so eager to make a small win that you will not notice how big a loser you are.

Regards
DL

Oh wait a minute, you said rehabilitated, what does it say to sinners to do a) carry on sinning? or b) repent from sin?

Me childish? Remember you never answered the question last time, and the answer you have just given about being rehabilitation makes you look hypocritical about the OP

 

[Tuffdisc]

Define the term and I will see.

Active.

Ex.


Rehabilitated.


Any kids in the hous.

Give some details fool.

You might also note how fucking childish you look but I am sure that will go right by your ilk who is so eager to make a small win that you will not notice how big a loser you are.

Regards
DL

Yet you continue to insult people who ask you questions that people need to know because strangely they don't ask, I wonder why?

 

[sofia76]

Define the term and I will see.

Active.

Ex.


Rehabilitated.


Any kids in the hous.

Give some details fool.

You might also note how fucking childish you look but I am sure that will go right by your ilk who is so eager to make a small win that you will not notice how big a loser you are.

Regards
DL

Me? Personally, a pedophile is never rehabilitated; they are merely broken from the start. And that's another point I don't understand about "The Church" (input religion of choice there). Why is it that a horrible person can commit a Mortal Sin, repent and accept Jesus on or near their deathbed, and expect to be accepted into Heaven?

That has never made sense to me. I was raised religious, but have examined it from a variety of aspects, and pretty much consider myself to be probably agnostic these days.