Westboro

[Loyalist]

Bring a shotgun with u... Just dont get caught!

I wouldn't want anyone to go that far but I tell you, put then all in a uniform, send them overseas, send them out on patrol.

 

[retro]

Well what bothers me is that they are being allowed to do that and get away with it.
I find it hard to believe that those that paid the price had this type of freedom in mind. :mad

U.S. Military Oath of Enlistment

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. (So help me God.)

I've bolded the part that is important to this discussion.

Support and defend the Constitution of the United States... which includes the First Amendment...

First Amendment of the United States Constitution

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Again, I have bolded the part that is important to this discussion. Say what you will about the Westboro "church", their beliefs, and how they choose to make their beliefs heard... they still have the legal, Constitutionally protected right to protest these funerals. That is, as long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others... and protesting does not infringe upon anyone's rights.

 

[Loyalist]

U.S. Military Oath of Enlistment


I've bolded the part that is important to this discussion.

Support and defend the Constitution of the United States... which includes the First Amendment...

First Amendment of the United States Constitution


Again, I have bolded the part that is important to this discussion. Say what you will about the Westboro "church", their beliefs, and how they choose to make their beliefs heard... they still have the legal, Constitutionally protected right to protest these funerals. That is, as long as they aren't infringing upon the rights of others... and protesting does not infringe upon anyone's rights.

I understand all that. But really do you think that's what they meant by freedom of speech ?
To foul the memory of a fallen soldier who gave their life. That's not freedom, that's hatred and disrespect.
This picture is fuzzy and needs to be fine tuned.

 

[Roxi]

Freedom of speech implies everyone's right to say what they believe in and how they feel about it. Even those westboro are the one of the most foul and horrid group of people to walk this earth they have a right under US law to speak there mind quite sad really.

 

[retro]

I understand all that. But really do you think that's what they meant by freedom of speech ?
To foul the memory of a fallen soldier who gave their life. That's not freedom, that's hatred and disrespect.
This picture is fuzzy and needs to be fine tuned.

That's exactly what it means... you can't pick and choose what is and isn't allowed. At that point it ceases to become freedom of speech, and becomes the freedom to speak about what you want to except for topics x, y, and z. That's nothing more than censorship, and is exactly what the Constitution was meant to prevent.

 

[Loyalist]

That's exactly what it means... you can't pick and choose what is and isn't allowed. At that point it ceases to become freedom of speech, and becomes the freedom to speak about what you want to except for topics x, y, and z. That's nothing more than censorship, and is exactly what the Constitution was meant to prevent.

Well that explains a lot.
So nobody should be upset at anything anyone does because after all, its freedom right ?

 

[retro]

Well that explains a lot.
So nobody should be upset at anything anyone does because after all, its freedom right ?

Now you're being deliberately obtuse and putting words in my mouth. I never said that people didn't have the right to get upset. It disgusts me that they chose to behave in this manner, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the legal and Constitutional right to do so. I wouldn't have that change for anything. I may not like what they do, but I defend their right to do so.

 

[Kyle B]

Well that explains a lot.
So nobody should be upset at anything anyone does because after all, its freedom right ?

We can be upset about it, but it's still their freedom.

 

[Loyalist]

Now you're being deliberately obtuse and putting words in my mouth. I never said that people didn't have the right to get upset. It disgusts me that they chose to behave in this manner, but that doesn't change the fact that they have the legal and Constitutional right to do so. I wouldn't have that change for anything. I may not like what they do, but I defend their right to do so.

No I'm not and don't be so sensitive about a issue that you feel so passionate about. Remember I have freedom of expression. But you can't have it both ways.
Don't dare rant and rave or get pissed off about anything that may offend you because those that are offending you have that right to offend you.

 

[Zorak]

No I'm not and don't be so sensitive about a issue that you feel so passionate about. Remember I have freedom of expression. But you can't have it both ways.
Don't dare rant and rave or get pissed off about anything that may offend you because those that are offending you have that right to offend you.

you were putting words in his mouth.

 

[MoonOwl]

I wouldn't walk across the street to see them.

I would walk across the street to see Jesus Himself bitch-slap these 'haters-in-His-name' when He finally makes His way back here.

Some may think He'll show phelps & his ilk compassion & forgiveness. "they know not what they do" and all that jazz. I don't think so. Methinks He's got special plans for the haters like phelps and the MoneyMakers like Pat Robertson.

But I could be wrong. The gullible gave these people power. Perhaps He'll just shake His head in amazement at what has been accomplished in His name by some of His followers...... Then lob another giant asteroid

 

[Loyalist]

I wouldn't walk across the street to see them.

I would walk across the street to see Jesus Himself bitch-slap these 'haters-in-His-name' when He finally makes His way back here.

Some may think He'll show phelps & his ilk compassion & forgiveness. "they know not what they do" and all that jazz. I don't think so. Methinks He's got special plans for the haters like phelps and the MoneyMakers like Pat Robertson.

But I could be wrong. The gullible gave these people power. Perhaps He'll just shake His head in amazement at what has been accomplished in His name by some of His followers...... Then lob another giant asteroid

Myself I don't think I would be able to control my actions if I ever got too close to some of them. But that would make me wrong.
I can respect anyone who has opinions so far away from mine. But to protest a funeral of a fallen service person just doesn't do it for me.
I understand that the constitution speaks to freedoms and I KNOW many people died defending these freedoms.
Now I'm thinking that perhaps that some while they are defending freedom, they are overlooking hate.
There really should be a clearer distinction between freedom as opposed to hate.

 

[JanieDough]

I secretly hope some one assassinates them one day, and then makes a sign that says "you died because God hated you" or "you died because God was sick of you putting words in his mouth!"

So in the hope that they all spontaneously combust, I would stay far far away.

But if I saw one on the sidewalk I would be tempted to fuck with them.

 

[retro]

No I'm not and don't be so sensitive about a issue that you feel so passionate about. Remember I have freedom of expression. But you can't have it both ways.
Don't dare rant and rave or get pissed off about anything that may offend you because those that are offending you have that right to offend you.

I'm sorry, but does that come in English?

I wasn't being sensitive, I was merely stating that you put words in my mouth.

I have the right to rant and rave about things that may offend me all that I want to, it's my freedom to do so. I can also rant and rave and say that you're acting like an idiot because you don't seem to understand the very simple concepts being discussed here. That is if we're talking about the United States here. You have the right to voice your opinion, and I have the right to voice my opposition to your opinion.

Clear enough for you?

 

[retro]

Now I'm thinking that perhaps that some while they are defending freedom, they are overlooking hate.
There really should be a clearer distinction between freedom as opposed to hate.

But you're acting as though you hate the Westbobo Baptist Church because of what they do. Should your hatred be illegal?

 

[Loyalist]

I secretly hope some one assassinates them one day, and then makes a sign that says "you died because God hated you" or "you died because God was sick of you putting words in his mouth!"

So in the hope that they all spontaneously combust, I would stay far far away.

But if I saw one on the sidewalk I would be tempted to fuck with them.

I understand but the idea of " fucking " with them only feeds the hate. Those places that have laws against hate must have those laws more clearly defined because when charged, those will yell from the roof tops " freedom ".
BTW although I respect those defending those freedoms even though they may not agree, I wonder how they would feel if it was one of their friends or family that has their funeral defiled by this group of haters ?
I hope it never happens.

 

[itsmeJonB]

I would go and counter protest as every person should do

 

[JanieDough]

i would just sit on the corner and hand out flowers and hugs to every person and say "God loves you no matter what"

 

[Loyalist]

I'm sorry, but does that come in English?

I wasn't being sensitive, I was merely stating that you put words in my mouth.

I have the right to rant and rave about things that may offend me all that I want to, it's my freedom to do so. I can also rant and rave and say that you're acting like an idiot because you don't seem to understand the very simple concepts being discussed here. That is if we're talking about the United States here. You have the right to voice your opinion, and I have the right to voice my opposition to your opinion.

Clear enough for you?

Are you always this arrogant ?
Do you wish me to explain what that means to you ?
And you should know all about idiots because you seem to enjoy being one.
Anyways...your not worth anymore of my time.
I will continue to discuss/debate this topic with opened minded members.
Opps....that means not you.
BTW your reply to me only adds to the understanding as to why your country is the most the most hated in the free world.
Its people like you and only people like you that make it hated so much. You do the rest of the people in your country a great disservice.

 

[Loyalist]

I would go and counter protest as every person should do

When some nut bar cut off the head of someone riding on a greyhound bus, they sent two van loads up here to upset the funeral of the victim. The one van was turned back at the border. They had the van full of signs etc.
The other van got through because there were no signs but they never got with 3 miles of the funeral as but the police and townspeople wouldn't let them any closer.
Until things change, that might be the only way to deal with them.