Vladimr Putin - Time Person of the year

[All Else Failed]

This thread refers to an Ex-Soviet...Kind

Well then you have a problem with extremes, not communism.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Well then you have a problem with extremes, not communism.

Communism is not a good doctrine...I am not sure which one you have been researching, but you are aware, that the US has and will always have an issue with communism, from a variety of fronts, correct?

What exactly do you find positive in it?

 

[debbie t]

marxism in theory feeds and loves all people .
putin however was a kgb high ranker and so did some very bad things

sending the author of one day in the life of ivan denisovich to siberia for one.
not forgetting torture and fear to an innocent populace

 

[All Else Failed]

Communism is not a good doctrine...I am not sure which one you have been researching, but you are aware, that the US has and will always have an issue with communism, from a variety of fronts, correct?

What exactly do you find positive in it?

I've studied communism, anarchism and Marxism. I do not subscribe to any of them, but I can easily see their virtues, in wanting to make a classless society, since class is often the greatest divide a society can possibly have.

The U.S.'s animosity towards Communism came out of its own paranoia about power. After WW2 (actually during WW2) we recognized that Russia would be a main contender in global politics as a massive superpower. We were uncomfortable with this, considering ALL superpowers thrive off of being undermining and greedy to the extent where they are assured the no. 1 position in super power status. That is why you have all of the classic anti-communist propaganda from the 40's all the way up to the 80's. We had an obligation to have a smear campaign against an ideology that was diametrically opposed to our "way of life" not so much for their views on society, but for the mere fact that they opposed us.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

I've studied communism, anarchism and Marxism. I do not subscribe to any of them, but I can easily see their virtues, in wanting to make a classless society, since class is often the greatest divide a society can possibly have.

The U.S.'s animosity towards Communism came out of its own paranoia about power. After WW2 (actually during WW2) we recognized that Russia would be a main contender in global politics as a massive superpower. We were uncomfortable with this, considering ALL superpowers thrive off of being undermining and greedy to the extent where they are assured the no. 1 position in super power status. That is why you have all of the classic anti-communist propaganda from the 40's all the way up to the 80's. We had an obligation to have a smear campaign against an ideology that was diametrically opposed to our "way of life" not so much for their views on society, but for the mere fact that they opposed us.

Our opposition has nothing at all to do with human rights issues? Do we always have to be the paranoid country who ruthlessly attacks innocent nations? Or can we collectively have some sense of intellect and call wrong wrong?

I must be missing the boat on this as well, I see nothing positive that came from that ideology, if it worked so well, how come it was sent packing?

 

[All Else Failed]

Our opposition has nothing at all to do with human rights issues? Do we always have to be the paranoid country who ruthlessly attacks innocent nations? Or can we collectively have some sense of intellect and call wrong wrong?

I must be missing the boat on this as well, I see nothing positive that came from that ideology, if it worked so well, how come it was sent packing?

Sure, we were opposed to the various atrocities that happened under the soviet regime, but the main motivator to our opposition is to not be second in the grand power structure. Thats how super powers work. Its not like we're an innocent power that hasn't committed horrible atrocities.

It didn't work well because it was taken to an extreme. Extremes don't work. Plus we intentionally undermine any kind of government we don't like with organizations like the CIA.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Sure, we were opposed to the various atrocities that happened under the soviet regime, but the main motivator to our opposition is to not be second in the grand power structure. Thats how super powers work. Its not like we're an innocent power that hasn't committed horrible atrocities.

It didn't work well because it was taken to an extreme. Extremes don't work. Plus we intentionally undermine any kind of government we don't like with organizations like the CIA.

You know, like it or not, you and I fundementally have some of the same idea's, I despise war, I cannot stand degredation of ideology, removal of rights on any degree.

However, the very idea of communism is non-ownership, the government controls everything, your job, your money, your food, and they have the right to do whatever they choose to you, without intervention, and they do, they did it in the Former Soviet Union, they do it still in China. The very idea that you would support such a fundementally extreme view of rule for any country brings question in my eyes as to the sensitivity you challenge us all to find within.

Sometimes I get the idea that you just want to call our country out for being the bad guys in everything. You need to face the facts, in order for any country to stay the big kid onthe block, ass gets kicked. I don't always agree with it, I do not like it, but the US is a living breathing animal.

Seldom do I feel that essentially our country has not at least attempted to do what it thought was best for our collective futures, I do not always agree with tactics, or policy, but I do believe in the fundemental idea of freedom the way you and I have had it our whole lives, and communism would never have allowed you to say those things about it if you had lived in the Former Soviet Union, they would have kicked in your door and beaten you within an inch of your life.

 

[All Else Failed]

You know, like it or not, you and I fundementally have some of the same idea's, I despise war, I cannot stand degredation of ideology, removal of rights on any degree.

However, the very idea of communism is non-ownership, the government controls everything, your job, your money, your food, and they have the right to do whatever they choose to you, without intervention, and they do, they did it in the Former Soviet Union, they do it still in China. The very idea that you would support such a fundementally extreme view of rule for any country brings question in my eyes as to the sensitivity you challenge us all to find within.

Sometimes I get the idea that you just want to call our country out for being the bad guys in everything. You need to face the facts, in order for any country to stay the big kid onthe block, ass gets kicked. I don't always agree with it, I do not like it, but the US is a living breathing animal.

Seldom do I feel that essentially our country has not at least attempted to do what it thought was best for our collective futures, I do not always agree with tactics, or policy, but I do believe in the fundemental idea of freedom the way you and I have had it our whole lives, and communism would never have allowed you to say those things about it if you had lived in the Former Soviet Union, they would have kicked in your door and beaten you within an inch of your life.

Yeah, thats what I disagree with Communism. I don't support it. The government has way too much power. That is why I subscribe to Democratic socialism. Its all the fun of socialism in a democratic form.


Does out country do good things? of course. but I find that it is one of the biggest hypocrites ever when it comes to foreign policy and policy at home. Don't think for one second that people haven't been beaten, subjugated and discriminated against in this country for what they believed in. It happened A LOT. We can be a country without invading countries, too. But, thats a totally different subject all together.

 

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

Yeah, thats what I disagree with Communism. I don't support it. The government has way too much power. That is why I subscribe to Democratic socialism. Its all the fun of socialism in a democratic form.


Does out country do good things? of course. but I find that it is one of the biggest hypocrites ever when it comes to foreign policy and policy at home. Don't think for one second that people haven't been beaten, subjugated and discriminated against in this country for what they believed in. It happened A LOT. We can be a country without invading countries, too. But, thats a totally different subject all together.

Ah Ha..I got you to agree with me a little...you stubborn bastard

Beer for me, Stoli for you

 

[Pudding Time]

No form of government works well with a dictator ruling..

When you want to learn about real a communism, don't look towards the former USSR or China. They didn't work because they were not pure communisms.

 

[All Else Failed]

Pretty much.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Ok, why is communism in theory, bad? I'm not talking about the soviet kind.

If I thought you would listen to reason, I could make a LONG post out of this one.

Fortunately for everybody here, you won't, so I don't have to!!

 

[Peter Parka]

If I thought you would listen to reason, I could make a LONG post out of this one.

Fortunately for everybody here, you won't, so I don't have to!!

Sounds like a cop out. Communism is just a political idea which is noble but unfortunately open to arseholes abusing the idea, much the same way that Capitalism is!

 

[IntruderLS1]

Cop out eh? .... Son, have you ever read one of my many tirades about Communism? They go way back to the MF days. haha

 

[Peter Parka]

Cop out eh? .... Son, have you ever read one of my many tirades about Communism? They go way back to the MF days. haha

Yes I've read many tirades against Communism, remember McCarthyism? Thought you might have learnt from that by now.:smiley24:

 

[IntruderLS1]

Yes I've read many tirades against Communism, remember McCarthyism? Thought you might have learnt from that by now.:smiley24:

LOL People who use eye rolling smilies when talking about McCarthyism haven't looked very deeply into it.

 

[Peter Parka]

LOL People who use eye rolling smilies when talking about McCarthyism haven't looked very deeply into it.

Yes I have and as most people I realise what a pile of bullshit propaganda he was spreading.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Yes I have and as most people I realise what a pile of bullshit propaganda he was spreading.

If you were pinned down and forced to give some type of percentage, how much of what he said do you think was total B.S. vs. founded on evidence later found to be factual?

Just a rough estimate.

I'm not defending anything here, or looking to start a new war. Just wondering how deeply you have looked at it.

 

[Peter Parka]

If you were pinned down and forced to give some type of percentage, how much of what he said do you think was total B.S. vs. founded on evidence later found to be factual?

Just a rough estimate.

I'm not defending anything here, or looking to start a new war. Just wondering how deeply you have looked at it.

Show me how much of it was fact then!:smiley24:

 

[IntruderLS1]

Show me how much of it was fact then!:smiley24:

... :confused

That would defeat the point of the exercise. You said you've looked very closely at it, and I'm curious as to what you've come up with.

I think people should look objectively at their beliefs. Sometimes we find that we might have drinken the cool-aid earlier than maybe we should have.

I'm just as guilty as the next guy, so I'm not picking on you about it. I am genuinely just curious.