Very interesting....

[groundpounder]

We have a long way to go and many roads to take to get there... so hopefully we get someone with a real vision to take the charge and run with it.

sounds like T. Boone Pickens is your man!!! :thumbup

 

[Minor Axis]

More power to Mr. Pickens.

 

[thatguyjeff]

If you consider the price of construction, you're talking about a 1% cost addition that will pay itself off in a very short amount of time. I think current payoff on a home solar power system is 7 years in California.

I would be very surprised if your numbers are accurate.

I very recently looked into getting a solar system installed in my home. Granted, not new construction - retrofit... Still, I was advised that since the costs are primarily tied up in the materials (panels and batteries most notably) that the price difference between new and existing construction is negligible.

I was quoted in the area of $29,000.

This would be for a complete home solar package. Smaller house, 1,100 square feet, 3 bedroom, family of 4. And still, even with a complete package, I was told that I still would not be able to power the AC or the clothes dryer and would still need a connection to "the grid" for these items.

Your electric bill would have to be $345 per month in order to recover that in 7 years. And that's not factoring in the cost of what you would pay to operate the AC and clothes dryer. My bill ranges from $100 - $150 per month. Not including the cost to run the AC and dryer, it would take me 16 years to recover the cost.

 

[Tim]

I would be very surprised if your numbers are accurate.

I very recently looked into getting a solar system installed in my home. Granted, not new construction - retrofit... Still, I was advised that since the costs are primarily tied up in the materials (panels and batteries most notably) that the price difference between new and existing construction is negligible.

I was quoted in the area of $29,000.

This would be for a complete home solar package. Smaller house, 1,100 square feet, 3 bedroom, family of 4. And still, even with a complete package, I was told that I still would not be able to power the AC or the clothes dryer and would still need a connection to "the grid" for these items.

Your electric bill would have to be $345 per month in order to recover that in 7 years. And that's not factoring in the cost of what you would pay to operate the AC and clothes dryer. My bill ranges from $100 - $150 per month. Not including the cost to run the AC and dryer, it would take me 16 years to recover the cost.

That's about what I was finding in my area as well, the numbers are pretty close. But I wasn't looking into battery storage. Mine was going to tie directly into the system, so it would feed electricity back into the system when my load was low. The main reason my payback was going to be long was due to my location. I am pretty far out of the sun belt and that has a big impact on me.
I'm just hoping for better panels at a reduced cost in the future so it will be economical for me to do.

 

[IntruderLS1]

We have a long way to go and many roads to take to get there... so hopefully we get someone with a real vision to take the charge and run with it.

Many roads to take is the key. It's true that no "one" type of alternate energy can compete with oil, but a combination of many types of alternate energy can bring our oil consumption down to acceptable levels. Wind, Solar, Geo-thermal, Hydro, Nuke, etc... I vote we give OPEC the bird and start taking care of business the way Americans can do.

I would be very surprised if your numbers are accurate.

I very recently looked into getting a solar system installed in my home. Granted, not new construction - retrofit... Still, I was advised that since the costs are primarily tied up in the materials (panels and batteries most notably) that the price difference between new and existing construction is negligible.

I understand what you're saying. In California, we have a lot of sun, but we also have a lot of subsidies that helps offset the cost. If you didn't want to have an off the grid system, your price will also drop by about half.

Something they don't advertise though is the payoff estimators only use today’s energy costs. Energy is getting more expensive, so actual pay off will be sooner than estimated IMO.

That's about what I was finding in my area as well, the numbers are pretty close. But I wasn't looking into battery storage. Mine was going to tie directly into the system, so it would feed electricity back into the system when my load was low. The main reason my payback was going to be long was due to my location. I am pretty far out of the sun belt and that has a big impact on me.

I'm just hoping for better panels at a reduced cost in the future so it will be economical for me to do.

I know the up front cost of upgrade is expensive (it's the same thing stopping me and my wife), but would you have been willing to pay an additional $20K for your house if it were installed at construction? It would raise your mortgage by something like $100 a month. The savings would be clear in that case.

Better panels are coming.

 

[Tim]

Many roads to take is the key. It's true that no "one" type of alternate energy can compete with oil, but a combination of many types of alternate energy can bring our oil consumption down to acceptable levels. Wind, Solar, Geo-thermal, Hydro, Nuke, etc... I vote we give OPEC the bird and start taking care of business the way Americans can do.

I myself am a firm believer in taking every road simultaneously. One alternative won't get it done.
It still amazes me that we are transferring $700 billion a year out of this country.... We need to plug that hole fast.

I understand what you're saying. In California, we have a lot of sun, but we also have a lot of subsidies that helps offset the cost. If you didn't want to have an off the grid system, your price will also drop by about half.

Something they don't advertise though is the payoff estimators only use today’s energy costs. Energy is getting more expensive, so actual pay off will be sooner than estimated IMO.

Yes it is getting more expensive and that does make a difference. But unfortunately where I live there are quite a few days with cloud cover... That's why I need more efficient panels here.

I know the up front cost of upgrade is expensive (it's the same thing stopping me and my wife), but would you have been willing to pay an additional $20K for your house if it were installed at construction? It would raise your mortgage by something like $100 a month. The savings would be clear in that case.

Better panels are coming.

Well worth it.

If you get a chance, look up solar power and what Germany is doing with it. They are kicking our ass when it comes to production, technology and government support. There is no good reason for that. We need to be the world leader in alternative energies.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I know the up front cost of upgrade is expensive (it's the same thing stopping me and my wife), but would you have been willing to pay an additional $20K for your house if it were installed at construction? It would raise your mortgage by something like $100 a month. The savings would be clear in that case.

Better panels are coming.

I myself am a firm believer in taking every road simultaneously. One alternative won't get it done.

It still amazes me that we are transferring $700 billion a year out of this country.... We need to plug that hole fast.

Germany kicking our ass when it comes to production, technology and government support. There is no good reason for that. We need to be the world leader in alternative energies.

:homo:'s

 

[Minor Axis]

How did we go wrong with Ethanol? Newsweek Article: Sounds Good, But ....

 

[Minor Axis]

T. Boone. Pickens: I've been an oil man all my life, but this is one emergency we can't drill our way out of.

 

[Minor Axis]

Some democrats are hostile towards Mr. Pickens as apparently he's behind the funding of the swift boat ads that helped sink Kerry. And he stands to make lots of money if he steers the U.S. economy towards natural gas powered vehicles. While I might be suspect of his personal motives, if it's a good idea that works for the country, I'd have to be sympathetic towards it.

 

[Mystic]

I see the propellers being hauled by buge ass 18 wheelers around Houston's freeways!
Them fuckers are BIG!

:nod: They certainly are huge! We have a wind farm here in my town, just off the bluffs. I'm proud to say my dad was one of the men who pushed for them and then helped to put them together (hes a millwright by trade) .:nod::thumbup

The only issue we are having with them is the countless of migrating song birds and bats that are killed everyday by the wings.:unsure: Its a real toss up on clean air or save the migrating animals....I think however, some solution was brought forth about this...I'm not sure what it is, probably turn them off of slow them down or noise guns.:dunno

 

[Minor Axis]

Heard on Public Radio: paraphrased- If you want to get off fossil fuels, the last thing you want is more oil drilling which will have a minimal effect on prices anyway. In fact you want high gas prices to make the switch off of foreign oil to become an imperative.

 

[Minor Axis]

From The Washington Post: No wonder there is a shortage of oil.... And like good neighbors, we sent some business their way to get'm going.