Universal health care in the US

[Tim]

should food producers get to make a profit?

How about any other necessity in life?

If we go to a socialized national health care the only difference is that instead of the provider making money it gets confiscated by the govt and there is no control over what will be confiscated.

I have no problem with companies making a profit, none at all. But how can you justify making a profit with a business that peoples lives hang in the balance? The insurance companies make their profit at the detriment of society. 25,000 people die each year in the US for the sake of those profits.
Basic health care should be a nonprofit enterprise. There is absolutely no need what so ever to make a profit on services that could mean the difference between life and death.

If you look at the countries with socialized medicine like France, the basic health care is free for every person in the country and the insurance companies are still able to make a very nice profit with any extra services and treatments they cover. So it's the best of both worlds. You will be covered if anything happens to you and you never need to worry about losing everything you own if you get sick (even if you have insurance here) and insurance companies make their profit.

But to say that it's ok to drop a sick persons coverage or deny a needed treatment for the sake of your bottom line is just sick.

 

[All Else Failed]

health care is not a right, it is a privilege

 

[Tim]

The Founding Fathers declared that we are "endowed with unalienable rights, among them are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
There is no question that in order to have life we must have health. Yet there has been only limited constitutional language specific to this right.
The "cruel and unusual punishment" clause of the 8th Amendment to the Constitution has been interpreted by the Supreme Court to require prisoners, as part of their humane treatment during detention, to be guaranteed the right to health care.
Currently prisoners are the only group who are specifically granted the right to health care. It is probable that the founders of our country, if they could have predicted the importance of health care, would have granted that the same standard of humane treatment be extended to every citizen.

 

[All Else Failed]

Health only makes life arguably longer, it doesn't make life possible itself




saying you have a right to health care is on par with saying you have a right to a carpenter or a electrician

 

[All Else Failed]

plus why should I be taxed more for people I don't care about to get their sniffles taken care of with my money I worked for?

 

[Minor Axis]

plus why should I be taxed more for people I don't care about to get their sniffles taken care of with my money I worked for?

Typically the people who don't like UHC are the ones that have coverage and they are in the minority. But the system is going to implode eventually so even you won't be immune. Has you health coverage costs skyrocketed in the last 30 years? Mine has. And when I look at what Doctors charge, it is astounding. This is a repeat but I like mentioning it- $18000 bill from a surgeon for a 50 min gall bladder operation. Is that reasonable?

Ok, lets look at something less expensive, an office visit with some tests- If you walked into this clinic without insurance you'd pay $1180. But because Blue Cross is my insurance, they knock it down to $472 and I end up paying approx $95.

So if you are one of the unlucky ones who can't afford $500+ or $1000 (family coverage) per month for insurance and you walk into a clinic with this ailment, you are paying $1200. That is screwed up.

For your reading enjoyment: Health Care, Profit vs Non-Profit

From 2005 the Number One Reason for Bankruptcy.

 

[Alien Allen]

I have no problem with companies making a profit, none at all. But how can you justify making a profit with a business that peoples lives hang in the balance? The insurance companies make their profit at the detriment of society. 25,000 people die each year in the US for the sake of those profits.
Basic health care should be a nonprofit enterprise. There is absolutely no need what so ever to make a profit on services that could mean the difference between life and death.

If you look at the countries with socialized medicine like France, the basic health care is free for every person in the country and the insurance companies are still able to make a very nice profit with any extra services and treatments they cover. So it's the best of both worlds. You will be covered if anything happens to you and you never need to worry about losing everything you own if you get sick (even if you have insurance here) and insurance companies make their profit.

But to say that it's ok to drop a sick persons coverage or deny a needed treatment for the sake of your bottom line is just sick.

Well I have not seen the bill and given it is I believe 1000 pages I doubt I will find it but I heard today the house version has a clause in it where if you did not have private insurance by a given date when the NHC plan takes effect that you must go on the public plan.

If that is true will you support the plan no matter about what is in the rest if this is true??

 

[Alien Allen]

If this plan had been floated around 30 years ago I would have had a lot less concerns with those in congress back then. Even if they were democrats. The current bunch on both sides of the aisle are beyond being despicable the way they pass bills. I repeat that it is unconscionable to consider passing this in the next couple of weeks which is the desire. They do that because they do not want it picked apart. Well this is one damn important and very expensive plan that will impact our country forever. This is not the friggin time to get it done ASAP. But to get it done right. There aint even 10% in congress that can be trusted to get it right.

 

[Staci]

Well I have not seen the bill and given it is I believe 1000 pages I doubt I will find it but I heard today the house version has a clause in it where if you did not have private insurance by a given date when the NHC plan takes effect that you must go on the public plan.

If that is true will you support the plan no matter about what is in the rest if this is true??

what about being penalized for not having it? is that fair?

we do pay quite a bit of money each month for our insurance but let me tell you something.

2 pregnancies $300 total (and $200 because i wanted a private room after birth)

cancer surgery $100 total

i know that our business pays a portion of the health insurance for our employees. i also know that with the new plan, we may not be able to afford to pay a part of it like we will be required. so now what....shut down all the small business? fire an employee or two to make up for the health care cost?

 

[Alien Allen]

what about being penalized for not having it? is that fair?

we do pay quite a bit of money each month for our insurance but let me tell you something.

2 pregnancies $300 total (and $200 because i wanted a private room after birth)

cancer surgery $100 total

i know that our business pays a portion of the health insurance for our employees. i also know that with the new plan, we may not be able to afford to pay a part of it like we will be required. so now what....shut down all the small business? fire an employee or two to make up for the health care cost?

I pay the entire bill for my employees

We are down to less than 10 total. Used to be between 20-30 and were the largest in the state in the 60's

Govt mandates has decimated our industry. Just since 2002 it is down 50% plus

As to the UHC plan the devil will be in the details and only the devil will know what they are because the asshats in congress sure won't

The way this is being done is a joke. A very bad one

 

[Staci]

I pay the entire bill for my employees

We are down to less than 10 total. Used to be between 20-30 and were the largest in the state in the 60's

Govt mandates has decimated our industry. Just since 2002 it is down 50% plus

As to the UHC plan the devil will be in the details and only the devil will know what they are because the asshats in congress sure won't

The way this is being done is a joke. A very bad one

we used to pay for the employees insurance but since medicare has cut their payments we had to cut back on that

 

[Alien Allen]

we used to pay for the employees insurance but since medicare has cut their payments we had to cut back on that

we had to change from a PPO to an HMO.

I hate it but we could not afford the PPO.

Then we had to increase the deductible and co pay.

But I still have been able to pay for the insurance bill thus far.

 

[Minor Axis]

what about being penalized for not having it? is that fair?

we do pay quite a bit of money each month for our insurance but let me tell you something.

2 pregnancies $300 total (and $200 because i wanted a private room after birth)

cancer surgery $100 total

i know that our business pays a portion of the health insurance for our employees. i also know that with the new plan, we may not be able to afford to pay a part of it like we will be required. so now what....shut down all the small business? fire an employee or two to make up for the health care cost?

You've got a good deal. Recently my wife was scheduled for a hysterectomy. Our portion of the bill $1400. At next year's renewal those costs are going up.