Universal health care in the US

[Tim]

There has been a lot of talk about universal health care in the US for quite some time now. It has been all over the news for months now and I find it quite disturbing that there are so many people out there that are opposed to it. I firmly believe that basic health care is not only a right but an obligation to be provided by every industrial nation. To allow groups of people to broker our health care for profit is not only immoral but reprehensible. This is NOT what our country is all about.
This trend of profiting on peoples basic health care is new to us as a country. It all started back in the late 60's to early 70's. Before that, it was unheard of to make a profit on the welfare of the American people. But like any other venture in this country, someone figured out that they could make ungodly amounts of profit by brokering health care. Now we have a system where it's ok to deny a patient coverage because they are not considered "profitable" to the company. It's ok to deny payment for services rendered because of some obscure loophole in their policy. It's ok to put profit over the welfare of the individual policy holder for the sake of the company stake holder.

I find it offensive that there are so many people in the US that are so easily led to slaughter by campaigning against their own interests on the behest of the few that will profit generously at the trough of the special interest groups that profit from the very people that are voting against their own interests. And they base their whole arguments against universal health care on straw man arguments.

It's my belief that any person that profits on the welfare of another individual should be banished from society altogether. To allow people to lose everything they have for the sake of profit, or for people to lose their lives for the sake of a few dollars more.

America was united after we lost 3000 lives on 9/11 yet we campaign for the companies that take 25,000 lives every year for the sake of profit.

 

[Tangerine]

I don't disagree with anything that you have said.

But one additional concern that I have in this process is the recent revelation that the proposed legislation to mandate coverage for all Americans also includes language that eliminates privately owned and paid-for insurance policies. While I agree that there must be a system to benefit those who need it most, I take great issue with the idea that if someone can afford BETTER care for themselves than the Government system provides, they do not have that choice.

 

[Staci]

they will tax high income earners. they will mandate that you have health insurance, and if you dont you will be penalized for it. it will close some small businesses.

i dont agree with how it will be done. i am also looking at losing the coverage that i have for my cancer treatments. we have 2 hospitals here in houston for people without insurance. you apply and get a "gold card" you also have to wait weeks to get an appointment with the doctor and if you have to go to the ER, you are looking at a min 5 hour wait to get seen.

 

[Tim]

I don't disagree with anything that you have said.

But one additional concern that I have in this process is the recent revelation that the proposed legislation to mandate coverage for all Americans also includes language that eliminates privately owned and paid-for insurance policies. While I agree that there must be a system to benefit those who need it most, I take great issue with the idea that if someone can afford BETTER care for themselves than the Government system provides, they do not have that choice.

I agree with you here... There should always be an option for additional insurance coverage. I am only talking about basic health care and that it's a right of every person in the US. If you look at countries that have universal health care like France, they also have a very successful insurance business for those that want the extra's and perks of health care. But the citizens of France do not need insurance for any sort of standard health care.

they will tax high income earners. they will mandate that you have health insurance, and if you dont you will be penalized for it. it will close some small businesses.

i dont agree with how it will be done. i am also looking at losing the coverage that i have for my cancer treatments. we have 2 hospitals here in houston for people without insurance. you apply and get a "gold card" you also have to wait weeks to get an appointment with the doctor and if you have to go to the ER, you are looking at a min 5 hour wait to get seen.

It wouldn't matter if all of our taxes went up to cover the cost of universal health care. It has to be paid for somewhere. Right now it comes out of our paychecks anyway. We pay for it with higher costs. We pay for it with poorer service. Don't be fooled, we all pay for it right now, we just do it very poorly and pay way more than we need to.

 

[Thornless]

I agree with you also Tim, being from Canada and having had health care through the government, now living in the states it would of been nice for the birth of my children. Yea there's downfalls to it, the higher taxes, you may have to wait if you are deemed 'non emergency' in the waiting room longer... but the over all benefits are better in the long run in my experience.

It saved not only my Dad/step-father/uncle's life(all Quad bypasses, week recovery, medication), my grandmothers (broken femur=replacement, forget the most recent but it was major and covered), my great-great-aunt (over eight different surgeries) who was and still is battling cancer, my Uncle (stint in heart surgery to avoid heart attack and bypass).

I don't disagree with anything that you have said.

But one additional concern that I have in this process is the recent revelation that the proposed legislation to mandate coverage for all Americans also includes language that eliminates privately owned and paid-for insurance policies. While I agree that there must be a system to benefit those who need it most, I take great issue with the idea that if someone can afford BETTER care for themselves than the Government system provides, they do not have that choice.

A good point, should be able to stack coverages.

 

[Margene]

Well said! I completely agree. A few more circumstances I deplore, pre-existing conditions. The refusal to cover treatments considered "experimental" or because they treat a rare disease they are not deemed worthy of coverage.

I know such a person who suffered from a very rare disease and the "experimental" treatment they were denied was a stem-cell transplant from their own marrow. Mind you, that therapy is far from experimental, but because a) they had a rare disease and b) it had only been used on a few others who had the same rare disease (successfully I might add) it didn't have a track record, so the insurance denied any coverage.

Cutting to the chase, through the generosity of countless strangers (and the mortgaging of the home), the person was able to make a down payment on the treatment that eventually lead to seven more years of life, when, had no treatment been received, death was imminent in six months.

This was a travesty. Having now passed on, there is still amazing debt left to the family.

I hope they can get it right in DC. That scenario is played out everyday somewhere in this country and it's a damn shame.

 

[Minor Axis]

Medical costs have been skyrocketing for at least the last 30 years in the States. For profit health care is bad for average people and it's going to implode if not fixed. Yes your taxes may go up but if it is that or paying $500+ per month to get insurance through your employer, why not? There are many things that need fixing including doctors liability expenses, no longer govt protection the enormous profits that giant pharmaceutical companies make, and charging a reasonable amount for an operation and overnight in a hospital. $3000 per night is not reasonable. A $18000 surgeon fee is way over the top for a 50 minute gall bladder operation. Or does someone here think that is reasonable?

 

[Margene]

Medical costs have been skyrocketing for at least the last 30 years in the States. For profit health care is bad for average people and it's going to implode if not fixed. Yes your taxes may go up but if it is that or paying $500+ per month to get insurance through your employer, why not? There are many things that need fixing including doctors liability expenses, no longer govt protection the enormous profits that giant pharmaceutical companies make, and charging a reasonable amount for an operation and overnight in a hospital. $3000 per night is not reasonable. A $18000 surgeon fee is way over the top for a 50 minute gall bladder operation. Or does someone here think that is reasonable?

Good post! The system is a mess. It needs to be reformed. Change is frightening, but we cannot go on like this.

 

[dt3]

Adding 1.5 Trillion by most estimates onto our budget in a time of great economic crisis is probably a bad idea, in my opinion. :dunno

 

[Alien Allen]

Just don't insult my intelligence by saying it will cost less. That flies in the face of reality and common sense.

Instead of a govt run program we should fix what we have

Instead of those without insurance going to a hospital have them go to clinics where the cost is less. Enact reforms to what damages people can claim to get the doctors insurance down to reasonable levels. Make insurance a pool so pre existing conditions are not a means to deny coverage.

Also don't assume that experimental procedures are gonna suddenly be allowed. The govt will be doing the same thing.

Lastly quit the fucking bull shit where a massive law is enacted without the asshats in congress reading it. If a bill is presented then it needs to be fully vetted and open to the public for a review. This shit where 300 page amendments are added hours before a vote has to stop. I guarantee you this will be a screwed up mess just because of the mere fact the asshats in DC are beholden to special interests and not us so they will do what ever they like and not what is right.

Lastly, again

If this bullshit passes then EVERYBODY gets stuck with it. No waivers for the UAW and those in the govt. If it is so friggin grand then we all get to suffer with it.

 

[Tim]

My rant is the fact that we should have universal health care in the US. That does not mean that I support the ridiculous legislation that's going through the house right now. I have no faith that they will get it right as long as they are beholden to the special interest groups. Our congressmen and senators work for them, not us (for the most part) and that will prevent them from doing what's right.

I think before we can expect to get anything of substance done here, we need to completely separate our government from ALL special interest groups. Stop the flow of money and get them to work for the common good once again.

 

[Alien Allen]

My rant is the fact that we should have universal health care in the US. That does not mean that I support the ridiculous legislation that's going through the house right now. I have no faith that they will get it right as long as they are beholden to the special interest groups. Our congressmen and senators work for them, not us (for the most part) and that will prevent them from doing what's right.

I think before we can expect to get anything of substance done here, we need to completely separate our government from ALL special interest groups. Stop the flow of money and get them to work for the common good once again.

well be prepared to get what you don't like then because until we have public financing of elections this bullshit will never end and we will end up with a fouled up system.

any time there is a mad dash to get something done it is a disaster. TARP was done with no thought to oversight. Just give em the money yesterday to prevent dooms day. Get the Stimulus done yesterday so we can prevent another dooms day. It is all bull shit. And you want to actually give these morons more money to piss away but going after the rich. Well eventually there aint gonna be any rich people when this socialist agenda is done with and then who you gonna go after??

 

[thatguyjeff]

I don't necessarily disagree with the concept of it. I have a few thoughts about how in the hell it will be funding, but that's only a small part of the picture.

What the general public doesn't understand are the complexities of implementing such a system. I have yet to hear of any details on how a universal system could be set up in a reasonable and efficient way.

Imagine the US decided that it would be better to drive on the left, like in the UK. Think about what it would take to make that kind of change happen. Signage, traffic signals, striping, countless traffic laws that need be rewritten...

It's not as simple as just paying for it. If it were, it would already be in place.

 

[Alien Allen]

I don't necessarily disagree with the concept of it. I have a few thoughts about how in the hell it will be funding, but that's only a small part of the picture.

What the general public doesn't understand are the complexities of implementing such a system. I have yet to hear of any details on how a universal system could be set up in a reasonable and efficient way.

Imagine the US decided that it would be better to drive on the left, like in the UK. Think about what it would take to make that kind of change happen. Signage, traffic signals, striping, countless traffic laws that need be rewritten...

It's not as simple as just paying for it. If it were, it would already be in place.

that is the big issue. coming up with an implementing a plan. anything would be better than the crap they are working on. Take Canada or Britain and start with theirs and then work from that. Oh, and make it a mandatory pilot program for all govt employees for 2 years to get the kinks out.

 

[ssl]

Tim, your original post is flawed!

You forgot to mention how it was a right:

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

 

[Tim]

Tim, your original post is flawed!

You forgot to mention how it was a right:

Read article 25 of The Universal Deceleration of Human Rights enacted in 1948. Or refer to the part where the people of the united states are to promote the general welfare of it's citizens.

It's not my post that's flawed, it's the lack of compassion that is.

 

[ssl]

Read article 25 of The Universal Deceleration of Human Rights enacted in 1948. Or refer to the part where the people of the united states are to promote the general welfare of it's citizens.

It's not my post that's flawed, it's the lack of compassion that is.

law is not built for compassion. it is built for governance. sadly, such governance does not have compassion for its citizens.

i r fully support your thought|argument. :thumbup

 

[Alien Allen]

General Welfare could damn near refer to anything.

And it states PROMOTE and not guarantee General Welfare.

 

[ssl]

General Welfare could damn near refer to anything.

And it states PROMOTE and not guarantee General Welfare.

And since the government allows companies to deny based on profits, I sure as hell think they are not even PROMOTING!

 

[Alien Allen]

And since the government allows companies to deny based on profits, I sure as hell think they are not even PROMOTING!

should food producers get to make a profit?

How about any other necessity in life?

If we go to a socialized national health care the only difference is that instead of the provider making money it gets confiscated by the govt and there is no control over what will be confiscated.