Too Much "God" in our Politics

[Accountable]

I am not saying it should be a theocracy. Freedom of belief is a great thing. Even though i might not believe in what you do, you still have the right to believe in it. If its harry potter and his witch spells then so be it. What I am saying is in a majority christian country you will have christian influence on the government. Believe it or not, There are religeous people who WANT there to be religeous people in charge.... and thats alright because they have the right to nominate and elect that person. Thats your conservative/republican party. If you dont want or like christianity then stray from the conservatives. Easy.

I can agree with this. It's the ones like Santorum, who say that federal law must comport to God's Law, that make me nervous.

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Joe the meek]

Believe it or not, There are religeous people who WANT there to be religeous people in charge.... and thats alright because they have the right to nominate and elect that person. Thats your conservative/republican party. If you dont want or like christianity then stray from the conservatives. Easy.

And THAT'S the scary part.

Currently the county over lost on a ruling because the supreme court refused to hear it's case. The county wanted to be able to say prayers at the commissioners meetings. Problem is, people sued them because the only prayers given were that of "Christians". Long story, but for the amount of legal costs and effort these "Christians" were putting forth, I couldn't help but shake my head thinking what Jesus Christ would really want them to do with the legal defense money they raised (yeah, give it to the lawyers, not the needed).

You can have good men leading the country, but it takes great men to leave their own religious beliefs out of their government philosophy.

Locally we have a couple of wacko baptist ministers who LOVE to make the news. Currently fighting gay marriage, wanting to leave "God" in school and keeping alcohol out of the hands of everyone one. For myself, these men are nothing more but wolves disguised as sheep leading people by their own interpretation of the Bible.

 

[The Doc]

When we were deployed, we prayed before missions. We always had those couple wise guys who wanted to get attention by refusing to bow their heads and close their eyes, complaining etc... it was funny because i remember the Patrol Leader telling them " Close your eyes and bow your heads is an order, but the praying is not. You bow your head and close your eyes as you would left or right face. No one says you have to pray while your eyes are closed, hell you can imagine your fucking miley cyrus for all I care.. but you will not disrespect the Chaplain up there (Was a Captain/0-3 [commisioned officer]) by refusing to follow his orders." This taught me something. The importance of being tolerant. Most of the unit was Christian, we are sorry you arent. You can join us or sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up.

In Afghanistan our diet was not as diverse as it was back here. I grew up my whole life not eating pork. When we were deployed i swear they put ham and/or bacon in everything. We only had 2 cooks on my C.O.P. I could have complained that I couldent/wouldent eat the food because it broke my diet ristrictions.. but then i would screw everyone over. They would stop putting ham and bacon in everything. I am just an E-4, I am not special. No one makes me special food. By complaining i would ruin it for everyone. Therefore for the whole year i picked out peices of bacon and chunks of ham. Yes it sucked, but its called tolerating something. The majority of the Unit ate Pork, eventhough I didnt, i did not try and get it taken away from them. I tolerated the occasional peice of ham or bacon i couldent see that got in my mouth.

Theres a reason i just told you guys that story. Replace the pork with Christianity. Like it or not, this country is mostly christian. Christianity is everywhere in this country, there are refrences to it everywhere you look. You could either be the ass hole who wants to be a little bitch, cry, complain and ruin it for everyone ... or be a man and just deal with it.

So some people wanted to pray at a court house. Whats the big deal. If you dont want to pray, then dont do it. its not like by them praying 'christianly' in front of you your gonna end up getting baptized by lunch and confession your sin before dinner. Deal with it, people praying to someone or something you dont believe in wont kill you.

My girlfriends family is mormon. They read from the book of mormon, talk about joseph smith, and pray their mormon way when I am around them. I dont believe in Mormonism, Joseph Smith or any of that foolishness... but i tolerate it. I wont die by hearing about some guy named joseph smith. Its a house full of mormons, they make the majority. I will tolerate it eventhough i dont believe in it, because i am not trying to be rude ... while in their home.

Get the point?

 

[Joe the meek]

So some people wanted to pray at a court house. Whats the big deal. If you dont want to pray, then dont do it. its not like by them praying 'christianly' in front of you your gonna end up getting baptized by lunch and confession your sin before dinner. Deal with it, people praying to someone or something you dont believe in wont kill you.

The big deal is it's government property run by the government.

Nothing wrong with a moment of silence, and like you said, if you want to pray to the bunny rabbit, fine, but it's a moment of silence, NOT praying in Jesus Christ's name.

Personally, I don't really think Jesus would give a flying flip if you didn't pray to him at a government setting, just as long as you make time to pray sometime.

 

[The Doc]

The big deal is it's government property run by the government.

Nothing wrong with a moment of silence, and like you said, if you want to pray to the bunny rabbit, fine, but it's a moment of silence, NOT praying in Jesus Christ's name.

Personally, I don't really think Jesus would give a flying flip if you didn't pray to him at a government setting, just as long as you make time to pray sometime.

So its a court house. Someone is praying and ends it with "In Jesus Name, Amen" I dont see the big deal. If you dont believe in the last part just don repeat it after the person leading the prayer says it.

 

[Joe the meek]

So its a court house. Someone is praying and ends it with "In Jesus Name, Amen" I dont see the big deal. If you dont believe in the last part just don repeat it after the person leading the prayer says it.

The big deal is by using Jesus's name, you're identifying one particular religion.

The kicker is, the upper courts had decided it was ok to use "God" as a name in prayer, but not Jesus's. Those dang Christians wanted to take the fight all the way up the court system to a tune of $300,000k and LOST. I think Jesus would have a better idea of how to help those less fortunate with 300k other than to give it to the lawyers.

 

[The Doc]

A big group of people invested money, 300k apparently because they are passionate in what they believe in. They thought it was important to fight for that so their children would have the right todo that. Yes charity is great and i am pretty sure many of those who contributed to that case also donate to charity. You can use the Argument that Jesus would have a better idea to help those less fortune with X amount of money other then to give it to Wal-Mart, Auto Zone, Jiffy Lube, or American Eagle etc..

 

[Joe the meek]

A big group of people invested money, 300k apparently because they are passionate in what they believe in. They thought it was important to fight for that so their children would have the right todo that. Yes charity is great and i am pretty sure many of those who contributed to that case also donate to charity. You can use the Argument that Jesus would have a better idea to help those less fortune with X amount of money other then to give it to Wal-Mart, Auto Zone, Jiffy Lube, or American Eagle etc..

And the fact is I'm a pretty dumb guy and I knew these people were going to lose their "cause". If I could see it a mile away, well, says a lot about these other people.

For myself, Jesus doesn't want people fighting over his name on government property, heck, Jesus even said "give unto Cesar what is Cesar's", and there is enough fighting inside churches over His name we don't need it in the government IMO.

The government is for the people, by the people, no matter what religious affiliation you want to belong to. The problem is, once you start allowing religion into government, where do you draw the line? It's a slippery slope, and it's one that shouldn't be walked on IMO to begin with.

Heck, who knows, let religion into the government and court system (like the middle east) and who knows, perhaps if you kill in the name of Christianity it would be considered OK. I'm actually surprised this hit Canada...

http://news.yahoo.com/jury-finds-afghan-family-guilty-honor-killings-202441543.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for anyone praying to who they want to pray to, but it should not be done in a government setting IMO. That's the nice thing about a moment of silence, you can pray to Jesus if you want. However, these yahoo Christian zealots demand that they pray "out loud" publicly so every can hear his name. BFD.

 

[The Doc]

And the fact is I'm a pretty dumb guy and I knew these people were going to lose their "cause". If I could see it a mile away, well, says a lot about these other people.

For myself, Jesus doesn't want people fighting over his name on government property, heck, Jesus even said "give unto Cesar what is Cesar's", and there is enough fighting inside churches over His name we don't need it in the government IMO.

The government is for the people, by the people, no matter what religious affiliation you want to belong to. The problem is, once you start allowing religion into government, where do you draw the line? It's a slippery slope, and it's one that shouldn't be walked on IMO to begin with.

Heck, who knows, let religion into the government and court system (like the middle east) and who knows, perhaps if you kill in the name of Christianity it would be considered OK. I'm actually surprised this hit Canada...

http://news.yahoo.com/jury-finds-afghan-family-guilty-honor-killings-202441543.html

Joe, sometimes its not about winning or losing, its about standing up for what you believe in. Its the effort. If you were locked up and a bigger guy, much bigger then you, came up and took food off your plate... and you just let it happen.. you have become a bitch in everyones eyes. If you stand up and fight, even if the guy kicks your ass, you proved to everyone your not a bitch, your not a doormat and usually no one will mess with you. Thats how it is.

If someone wants to pray to Jesus before a court case or something, i fail to see what is wrong with that. I prayed in Jesus name before patrols. The COP I was at was US Government property.

Saying a prayer in a court house isnt a slippery slope. Religeous Police, banning other religeons, mandatory worship and using a religeous book as absolute law is.

Again in places like the taliban run afghanistan they used sharia law, religeous law to govern the people. As long as were not implementing mosiac law or the 10 commandments as law itself i dont see it as an issue.

 

[Joe the meek]

Joe, sometimes its not about winning or losing, its about standing up for what you believe in.

I agree with analogy about becoming a bitch, but don't see that applying here. Just as I don't see people bombing abortion clinics or killing doctors who preform abortions to "fight their fight" in the name of their God.

For myself, if you believe in Jesus so much, go out and do his work with others. Do you really think Jesus would want you battling the government to be able to say His name instead of his Father's?

There are a lot of Baptist ministers who are really standing up for what they believe in, and they let the public know. Honestly, it scares the living crap out of me.

What difference does it make if you pray to Jesus in silent prayer or saying his name out loud in a government setting?

 

[The Doc]

I agree with analogy about becoming a bitch, but don't see that applying here. Just as I don't see people bombing abortion clinics or killing doctors who preform abortions to "fight their fight" in the name of their God.

For myself, if you believe in Jesus so much, go out and do his work with others. Do you really think Jesus would want you battling the government to be able to say His name instead of his Father's?

There are a lot of Baptist ministers who are really standing up for what they believe in, and they let the public know. Honestly, it scares the living crap out of me.

What difference does it make if you pray to Jesus in silent prayer or saying his name out loud in a government setting?

The point of the Analogy is to show that when you tell someone they cant do something, they will fight you knowing they will lose to prove a point. People, especially Christians take their salvation seriously. Fighting for what you believe in, martyrdom, is a respectable thing especially in Christianity. Even if you fight and lose, you still get credit for fighting until the end and not giving up. Bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors who preform abortions are the work of extreemists. Those people do not reflect on the rest of the Christian population, as the taliban and al queda are extreemists and dont reflect the rest of Islam.

I am doing Jesus's work. Most people who arent Christians and dont study the bible dont seem to grasp the fact that you can do Jesus's work without preaching to people. I work in the medical field, I take care of soldiers. Soldiers are people, and people are the children of God. Atleast in my belief system. I am not fighting the government, I am the government. No one has ever refused me the right to pray since i have been in the Army so its never been an issue. I usually pray on my own but we pray as a unit before big events like change of commands etc.. etc..

The difference between silent prayer and speaking prayer, is a spoken prayer is normally a group prayer. Part of being Christian is about being proud of your faith, if someone told me i couldent pray out load I would feel offended, I would feel like if i didnt fight and argue with the person telling it to me I am letting them disrespect God. Thats just me though. Instead of telling people they cant pray out loud, maybe you need to just cover your ears?

 

[Joe the meek]

The point of the Analogy is to show that when you tell someone they cant do something, they will fight you knowing they will lose to prove a point. People, especially Christians take their salvation seriously. Fighting for what you believe in, martyrdom, is a respectable thing especially in Christianity. Even if you fight and lose, you still get credit for fighting until the end and not giving up. Bombing abortion clinics and killing doctors who preform abortions are the work of extreemists. Those people do not reflect on the rest of the Christian population, as the taliban and al queda are extreemists and dont reflect the rest of Islam.

I am doing Jesus's work. Most people who arent Christians and dont study the bible dont seem to grasp the fact that you can do Jesus's work without preaching to people. I work in the medical field, I take care of soldiers. Soldiers are people, and people are the children of God. Atleast in my belief system. I am not fighting the government, I am the government. No one has ever refused me the right to pray since i have been in the Army so its never been an issue. I usually pray on my own but we pray as a unit before big events like change of commands etc.. etc..

The difference between silent prayer and speaking prayer, is a spoken prayer is normally a group prayer. Part of being Christian is about being proud of your faith, if someone told me i couldent pray out load I would feel offended, I would feel like if i didnt fight and argue with the person telling it to me I am letting them disrespect God. Thats just me though. Instead of telling people they cant pray out loud, maybe you need to just cover your ears?

Doc, go tell me to cover my ears on government property sometime and you can see whose bitch I can be I don't say that as a Christian, I say that as an asshole who is fully aware that there are bullies in life who will always try to push you around, and sometimes the only thing they understand is a quick hand or foot somewhere LMAO

As far as your comment about you feeling you'd be disrespecting God if you didn't fight, don't look but there are a bunch of those dark skin guys in the sand box who feel the same way you do. Amazing isn't it how far Christians have come from the Crusades literally killing others in the name of their God.

Ultimately, if you're going to fight or kill, don't disrespect your God by using Him as a rallying point.

Hey, I'm just joking to a degree, but in all seriousness, you know the two key words I read in your post?

1. Pride
2. Fight

Those are words I think a lot of when it comes to Jesus:sarcasm

Ultimately we can agree to disagree on the rights of others to pray out loud on government property.

As an American I am proud the court system decided the way they did in my local community.

Honestly, I get tired of loud mouth ministers who like to make the news fighting the government. You're right, they do have pride and they do like to fight. That said, in my youth I liked to mix it up sometimes myself, but it was never because I was a Christian.

 

[Peter Parka]

It gets annoying when every time there's a political issue on the news, that have to show an interview with the arch bishop of Canterbury or some other religious leader. Believing in make belief dosen't make you an expert on running the economy so why they think the nation needs to hear these peoples opinion is beyond me, its completely irrelevant. They may as well have an interwiew with David Beckham to ask him how his would solve the financial crisis for all the good it does.

 

[The Doc]

Doc, go tell me to cover my ears on government property sometime and you can see whose bitch I can be I don't say that as a Christian, I say that as an asshole who is fully aware that there are bullies in life who will always try to push you around, and sometimes the only thing they understand is a quick hand or foot somewhere LMAO

As far as your comment about you feeling you'd be disrespecting God if you didn't fight, don't look but there are a bunch of those dark skin guys in the sand box who feel the same way you do. Amazing isn't it how far Christians have come from the Crusades literally killing others in the name of their God.

Ultimately, if you're going to fight or kill, don't disrespect your God by using Him as a rallying point.

Hey, I'm just joking to a degree, but in all seriousness, you know the two key words I read in your post?

1. Pride
2. Fight

Those are words I think a lot of when it comes to Jesus:sarcasm

Ultimately we can agree to disagree on the rights of others to pray out loud on government property.

As an American I am proud the court system decided the way they did in my local community.

Honestly, I get tired of loud mouth ministers who like to make the news fighting the government. You're right, they do have pride and they do like to fight. That said, in my youth I liked to mix it up sometimes myself, but it was never because I was a Christian.

When i Say fight i dont mean physically fight. I mean they are fighting for their right to do it. If a Muslim man wants to whip out his rug in court so be it, if you want to pray to Jesus in court so be it. Im not debating because its Jesus, im debating anyone should be able to pray to anything when and wherever they want.

Yes, lets agree to disagree. But theres one thing I want to point out though, those men in Afghanistan whom are coined 'taliban' are usually not fighting for their beliefs. They are poor people who are paid money and allowed to keep the weapon they are given for 1-3 contract assaults on Nato Forces. Alot of those men arent even from Afghanistan, they are hired in places like Uzbeckistan, Tajikstan etc.. Surprisingly most of the ANA (Afghan National Army) the Army that NATO is training) are former taliban. When I ask them what made them switch over (I speak Urdu/Pashto) most of them say "They pay more then the taliban". I wanted to point out that most of those men who shoot us do not believe they are fighting for their religeon.

I agree with you though that Pastors are Pastors, they have a pastoral degree... not a degree in politics. They should stick to what they know.

It gets annoying when every time there's a political issue on the news, that have to show an interview with the arch bishop of Canterbury or some other religious leader. Believing in make belief dosen't make you an expert on running the economy so why they think the nation needs to hear these peoples opinion is beyond me, its completely irrelevant. They may as well have an interwiew with David Beckham to ask him how his would solve the financial crisis for all the good it does.

In the U.S. We dont exactly interview or take Church Leaders views or guidance in terms of government from what I know. So i dont know what your talking about.

 

[teh_fuzz]

In my book: Religion has no place in education nor government!

 

[Joe the meek]

Doc

I think this will explain it better than I can

http://www.offtopicz.net/showthread.php?81813-Watch-and-learn

 

[Johnfromokc]

 

[Joe the meek]

Good looking little devil worshiper.

 

[Minor Axis]

I'm surprised you didn't include Santorum's claim that federal law must comport to God's Law.

I find this kind of a view in a candidate for President to be DAMN scary. So much for what the founding Fathers wanted.