this may be the only thing that I've ever agreed with Rick Perry about

[retro]

well, not only... but you get the picture

I want people to be afraid not to talk about that Social Security is bankrupt and is a Ponzi scheme and if you've got a young 20-something-year-old, they know for a fact that they're not ever going to see that,” he said. “So let's fix it.

another comment I very much agree with...

Perry criticized President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal and an early 20th-century “progressive era” movement that “gave the federal government access to our wallets via taxation.”

Calling the New Deal “a glut of federal programs,” Perry said the creation of the Social Security system did very little to end the Great Depression.

“Unfortunately, the New Deal has essentially become the third rail of American politics that indiscriminately kills the political careers of any leader bold enough to criticize it or any program it created,” he said.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/entertainment/books/perry_touts_new_book_in_san_antonio_107002198.html

 

[Minor Axis]

Calling SS a ponzi scheme is disingenuous. I'm not surprised any politician who considers himself a conservative would not hesitate to make this claim. What they leave out is why every party in power since SS was created allowed the fund to be robbed for the general budget. Our political leadership including conservatives hostile to the concept, over the last 70 years has turned it into what it has become.

Regarding Roosevelt and the New Deal, maybe you can clarify why the 16th Amendment that allows Income tax was passed in 1913, before the Great Depression during a pro-business Administration? Maybe I'm confused.

 

[Accountable]

Claiming SS isn't a ponzi scheme is disingenuous. You made me chuckle about the 16th amendment, but it's tucked in the quote - we both missed it. "... and an early 20th-century “progressive era” movement that 'gave the federal government access to our wallets via taxation.'”

You say Woodrow Wilson was pro-business? I'll have to go back and do some reading.

eta: Oh yeh, about the actual subject of the thread:
Perry has definitely helped Texas be successful in the face of bad economy, but he's had more than two terms. It's time for him to go.

 

[Alien Allen]

The same old complaint about robbing SS is silly. That has nothing to do with it being headed for disaster. All it did was to speed it up a bit. It may not fit the technical definition of a ponzi scheme but in the end it sure quacks like one. Because it is not sustainable. The ratio of retirees to workers has shifted and there simply are not enough workers putting money in to continue to keep it solvent

 

[retro]

Calling SS a ponzi scheme is disingenuous. I'm not surprised any politician who considers himself a conservative would not hesitate to make this claim. What they leave out is why every party in power since SS was created allowed the fund to be robbed for the general budget. Our political leadership including conservatives hostile to the concept, over the last 70 years has turned it into what it has become.

The fact that Social Security has been robbed to fund everything else does not change the fact that it is a Ponzi Scheme. Even if no money had been taken from it to fund other things, the fact remains that we no longer have a large enough workforce putting into the program to make up for those taking out of it, and it's only getting worse.

I seriously cannot understand why it is so difficult to look at SS and then look at a Ponzi scheme and not see that they are essentially the same exact thing.

Regarding Roosevelt and the New Deal, maybe you can clarify why the 16th Amendment that allows Income tax was passed in 1913, before the Great Depression during a pro-business Administration? Maybe I'm confused.

What in God's name does the income tax have to do with the New Deal? The fact Perry's quote mentioned taxation? That's weak at best.

 

[Minor Axis]

Keep saying Ponzi Scheme, Ponzi Scheme, Ponzi Scheme- all of your easily influenced minions will believe you.

Regarding income taxes, you need to re-view your own posts fella. :smiley24:

 

[Alien Allen]

Keep saying Ponzi Scheme, Ponzi Scheme, Ponzi Scheme- all of your easily influenced minions will believe you.

Regarding income taxes, you need to re-view your own posts fella. :smiley24:

ah yes income taxes

those are the ones that half the country does not pay for??

As I said SS is not a true ponzi scheme as a ponzi scheme is voluntary. We are forced to pay into SS

The end result is the same though no matter what you want to call it

Unless the govt reforms SS

Because it is totally unsustainable as it is

And I am not holding my breath the politicians have the balls to make it solvent because that is gonna be painful.

SS was never meant to get you thru retirement. It was to be a safety net

 

[Minor Axis]

ah yes income taxes

those are the ones that half the country does not pay for??

As I said SS is not a true ponzi scheme as a ponzi scheme is voluntary. We are forced to pay into SS

The end result is the same though no matter what you want to call it

Unless the govt reforms SS

Because it is totally unsustainable as it is

And I am not holding my breath the politicians have the balls to make it solvent because that is gonna be painful.

SS was never meant to get you thru retirement. It was to be a safety net

If they do their jobs, pain is in our future except for the rich of course. Republicans will make sure they always live the good life. My doubts are about being brave enough to actually fix it without playing favorites.

 

[Alien Allen]

If they do their jobs, pain is in our future except for the rich of course. Republicans will make sure they always live the good life. My doubts are about being brave enough to actually fix it without playing favorites.

And I have no doubt the democrats will play the woe is me card

I could live with the rich getting soaked if everybody had to pay something

It is absurd only half pay taxes

I don't care if it is 10 cents. The poorest also need to contribute

By the way I have yet to see anybody on welfare create jobs

 

[Alien Allen]

and the rich will never face pain anyway no matter who is in control

why do you have wealth envy??

 

[Minor Axis]

why do you have wealth envy??

Absolutely not, just want average folks to get a fair shake. Now we can debate the defintion of fair.

 

[Alien Allen]

Absolutely not, just want average folks to get a fair shake. Now we can debate the defintion of fair.

What is holding back anybody from getting their fair share?

And yes the definition of fair is a good one to debate.

I suspect we have wildly different opinions on that

 

[Tim]

And I have no doubt the democrats will play the woe is me card

I could live with the rich getting soaked if everybody had to pay something

It is absurd only half pay taxes

I don't care if it is 10 cents. The poorest also need to contribute

By the way I have yet to see anybody on welfare create jobs

Are you insinuating that it's the rich that create the jobs? Really?

 

[Alien Allen]

Are you insinuating that it's the rich that create the jobs? Really?

Nah according to Obama it is the govt :24:

 

[Codrus]

Nah according to Obama it is the govt :24:

...oh but they do,..just look at all the govt jobs that have been created,..or all the jobs that have been "saved",.....just look at the numbers that they provided ,..all the "facts" are there for everyone to see






















:sarcasm

 

[Tim]

I really don't know what fucking world you guys live in. The rich have never crated jobs in this country. It's the buying public that create demand for goods that create the need for the jobs. The vast majority of jobs in the US are created by the middle class and small businesses. I have been working since 1985 and have yet worked for a rich guy or have gotten a job because some rich guy had some money to spend. It's the working stiffs like us that see an opportunity and start a business and grow it because other working stiffs need something done. You of all people Alien should know that. If it wasn't for the middle class, you wouldn't be working.
I boggles my mind that people with half a brain can be so stupid when it comes to basic business sense. The rich don't create more jobs because they are able to keep a few percentage points more of the earnings. Trickle down economics has been proven false time and time again. Yet the lemmings of the world keep buying the crap they are fed over and over again at their own peril. From the beginning of time up until the 1980's all the wealth ever generated on this planet was less than $40trillion, yet today the top 5% own over $40trillion of all the wealth. So yes, I want a fucking redistribution of wealth. I want the money that has been systematically stolen from the working class returned. It has to be the saddest thing to watch the working class fighting for the wealthy so they can continue to rape them. Wake up! What does it say when a one time tax of 15% on the top 5% would damn near eliminate our countries debt?

 

[Codrus]

I really don't know what fucking world you guys live in. The rich have never crated jobs in this country. It's the buying public that create demand for goods that create the need for the jobs. The vast majority of jobs in the US are created by the middle class and small businesses. I have been working since 1985 and have yet worked for a rich guy or have gotten a job because some rich guy had some money to spend. It's the working stiffs like us that see an opportunity and start a business and grow it because other working stiffs need something done. You of all people Alien should know that. If it wasn't for the middle class, you wouldn't be working.
I boggles my mind that people with half a brain can be so stupid when it comes to basic business sense. The rich don't create more jobs because they are able to keep a few percentage points more of the earnings. Trickle down economics has been proven false time and time again. Yet the lemmings of the world keep buying the crap they are fed over and over again at their own peril. From the beginning of time up until the 1980's all the wealth ever generated on this planet was less than $40trillion, yet today the top 5% own over $40trillion of all the wealth. So yes, I want a fucking redistribution of wealth. I want the money that has been systematically stolen from the working class returned. It has to be the saddest thing to watch the working class fighting for the wealthy so they can continue to rape them. Wake up! What does it say when a one time tax of 15% on the top 5% would damn near eliminate our countries debt?

i think that people have themselves to blame for believing what they have been fed by govt and the media.....but sometimes we all think we should have taken the blue pill

 

[Minor Axis]

It has to be the saddest thing to watch the working class fighting for the wealthy so they can continue to rape them.

A proactive government run by people who give a damn about the middle class is the only thing standing between us and a good ass rogering... Consider millions of jobs sent to the China. They went because they could do it. Some of you guys want government to stay out of business's way. I want human greed kept in check. You are not gonna get that from big business.

i think that people have themselves to blame for believing what they have been fed by govt and the media.....but sometimes we all think we should have taken the blue pill

The number one category are those working class people who think they belong in the conservative's tent and vote consistently against their own best interests.

 

[retro]

I really don't know what fucking world you guys live in. The rich have never crated jobs in this country. It's the buying public that create demand for goods that create the need for the jobs. The vast majority of jobs in the US are created by the middle class and small businesses. I have been working since 1985 and have yet worked for a rich guy or have gotten a job because some rich guy had some money to spend. It's the working stiffs like us that see an opportunity and start a business and grow it because other working stiffs need something done. You of all people Alien should know that. If it wasn't for the middle class, you wouldn't be working.

Small business owners are being considered the "rich" by the current administration. Anyone that makes over, what is it now? $250,000/yr is considered "rich". Those are the people that create jobs, and we're forcing them to go out of business or lay people off. Those same small businesses can end up becoming big businesses, thus creating the massive corporations that you have a hatred for, along with the people that started them to begin with. Microsoft started as a small business out of someone's garage. So did HP. Apple was a small business. These are all companies that employ millions of people now, or millions of other people have jobs because those companies came into being. Obama and company have waged war on everyone that they've deemed to be "rich", and that income threshold has gotten lower and lower the more that it's been talked about.

I boggles my mind that people with half a brain can be so stupid when it comes to basic business sense. The rich don't create more jobs because they are able to keep a few percentage points more of the earnings. Trickle down economics has been proven false time and time again. Yet the lemmings of the world keep buying the crap they are fed over and over again at their own peril. From the beginning of time up until the 1980's all the wealth ever generated on this planet was less than $40trillion, yet today the top 5% own over $40trillion of all the wealth. So yes, I want a fucking redistribution of wealth. I want the money that has been systematically stolen from the working class returned. It has to be the saddest thing to watch the working class fighting for the wealthy so they can continue to rape them. Wake up! What does it say when a one time tax of 15% on the top 5% would damn near eliminate our countries debt?

So because we don't see the world in liberal colored glasses, we're stupid? Is that it? Okay Tim, you're stupid because you think that the liberal mindset is one that actually cares about the "poor". Try this one on for size... government revenue went up in the 80s when Reagan enacted his tax cuts. Personal income levels went up, and so did government revenues. If supply side economics has been proven false time and time again, than this "stimulus" that the President bullied through Congress and forced on the American people proves that Keynesian economics is a false theory as well.

So you'd like to double dip on people's personal wealth? If a one-time 15% tax on your personal income would help a struggling family get out of debt, would you be amenable to it? I mean, after all, you're all about the common working man, right?

 

[retro]

The number one category are those working class people who think they belong in the conservative's tent and vote consistently against their own best interests.

The other side of the aisle works against their best interests too for the love of God. If you think the right is evil, then pay attention to the left as well. The right wants businesses to succeed, and the left wants everyone to be dependent on the fucking government for the love of God.