Theist. Would you give up your moral sense?

[Greatest I am]

The story and moral of A&E is very hard to swallow. If we did not know the difference between good and evil, would there be any challenges in our lives? This sounds very much like this concept is of human origin.

I think that the ancients had just noticed the way evolution works in terms of cooperation and competition. The only two things man can do.

They just called it good and evil.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

Not surprising.

As to the reward and punishment issue.
It is key to understanding what or who Bible God is and if he should be followed or not. please do not ignore it.
If you find justice in the Bible then you are wrong.

This is not to push your thinking but-----

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.
Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.

The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.
1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?
2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.
Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.
3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?
4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?
Is hell a moral construct or not?
Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL

DL, i'm a hebrew-israelite. most of the stuff you are talking about is paulist doctrine. doesn't make any sense to me. the god of the israelites is loving, merciful and forgiving. he told noah that the only unforgiveable sin was that of killing.

these things you continue to harp on are not part of my reality.

 

[Peter Parka]

DL, i'm a hebrew-israelite. most of the stuff you are talking about is paulist doctrine. doesn't make any sense to me. the god of the israelites is loving, merciful and forgiving. he told noah that the only unforgiveable sin was that of killing.

these things you continue to harp on are not part of my reality.

When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas sees them and throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. For impaling the interracial couple, God rewards Phinehas and his sons with the everlasting priesthood. (Numbers 25:6-9, 25:10-13)

Dosen't sound very loving, merciful or forgiving to me!:unsure:

 

[Greatest I am]

DL, i'm a hebrew-israelite. most of the stuff you are talking about is paulist doctrine. doesn't make any sense to me. the god of the israelites is loving, merciful and forgiving. he told noah that the only unforgiveable sin was that of killing.

these things you continue to harp on are not part of my reality.

Yet the God of Moses showed his love of man by using genocide on him.
A loving God would cure not do the killing that he rails against.

Do you believe in the flood?
Do you believe that there is no hell?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

DL, i'm a hebrew-israelite. most of the stuff you are talking about is paulist doctrine. doesn't make any sense to me. the god of the israelites is loving, merciful and forgiving. he told noah that the only unforgiveable sin was that of killing.

these things you continue to harp on are not part of my reality.

Have you seen this?
What are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

When one of the Israelite men brings home a foreign woman, "Phinehas sees them and throws a spear "through the man .. and the woman through her belly." This act pleases God so much that "the plague was stayed from the children of Israel." But not before 24,000 had died. For impaling the interracial couple, God rewards Phinehas and his sons with the everlasting priesthood. (Numbers 25:6-9, 25:10-13)

Dosen't sound very loving, merciful or forgiving to me!:unsure:

maybe i should have qualified that with 'toward the people that loved him and lived the way he told them to live'.

i never said he didn't have a very bad temper and a sense of justice that wasn't peculiar to the typical modern literate person.

 

[TommyTooter]

Have you seen this?
What are your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

Regards
DL

i see a bunch of actors who look too well fed and free from pain to be inmates at auschwitz talking trash about ancient events that may or may not have happened. the film failed to achieve any suspension of disbelief in me and it was not something that was able to hold my interest for 10 minutes. i knew survivors personally. most people didn't even arrive at the camps in the condition those actors were in.

i've seen the argument before. i choose not to speculate on what the higher beings are up to or why and do my best to just go with the flow.

i live in the here and now. my spirit is intimate with the father YHVH, the mother SHECHINAH, the son YESHUAH, the teacher MELCHIZEDEK, all the angels and the spirits of my forebears and friends who have passed on to another frame of existence.

i view all written word with skepticism and am especially alert to things that are not congruent with what my spirit tells my body are true or false.

between bible thumping and bible bashing, i don't know which is more tiresome. live life loving living. how many more words does one need to direct them in their lives?

 

[Greatest I am]

i see a bunch of actors who look too well fed and free from pain to be inmates at auschwitz talking trash about ancient events that may or may not have happened. the film failed to achieve any suspension of disbelief in me and it was not something that was able to hold my interest for 10 minutes. i knew survivors personally. most people didn't even arrive at the camps in the condition those actors were in.

i've seen the argument before. i choose not to speculate on what the higher beings are up to or why and do my best to just go with the flow.

i live in the here and now. my spirit is intimate with the father YHVH, the mother SHECHINAH, the son YESHUAH, the teacher MELCHIZEDEK, all the angels and the spirits of my forebears and friends who have passed on to another frame of existence.

i view all written word with skepticism and am especially alert to things that are not congruent with what my spirit tells my body are true or false.

between bible thumping and bible bashing, i don't know which is more tiresome. live life loving living. how many more words does one need to direct them in their lives?

I see.
you are a non literal skeptic who may or may not read the Bible literally yet closes the book believing in a literal father YHVH, the mother SHECHINAH, the son YESHUAH. :24:

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

maybe i should have qualified that with 'toward the people that loved him and lived the way he told them to live'.

i never said he didn't have a very bad temper and a sense of justice that wasn't peculiar to the typical modern literate person.

Your God would not know these then?

Proverbs 3:12
For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Romans 12:21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

I see.
you are a non literal skeptic who may or may not read the Bible literally yet closes the book believing in a literal father YHVH, the mother SHECHINAH, the son YESHUAH. :24:

Regards
DL

now i see why people hate you.

you're rude and quite full of yourself.

under or over 35 are you?

the smilie screams juvenile with an IQ in the 110-125 range and your general composition style says high school graduate, maybe junior college.

i don't hate anybody and i'm not interested answering any more of your leading questions in a forum where i can't get more rude back to someone coming on like a passive/agressive twerp.

actually, pity's more the word. your body seems to have shut itself off from your spirit and certainly the rest of the spirit worlds.

 

[Greatest I am]

now i see why people hate you.

you're rude and quite full of yourself.

under or over 35 are you?

the smilie screams juvenile with an IQ in the 110-125 range and your general composition style says high school graduate, maybe junior college.

i don't hate anybody and i'm not interested answering any more of your leading questions in a forum where i can't get more rude back to someone coming on like a passive/agressive twerp.

actually, pity's more the word. your body seems to have shut itself off from your spirit and certainly the rest of the spirit worlds.

Yes. People hate the truth.
The truth will not let you delude yourself.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

Yes. People hate the truth.
The truth will not let you delude yourself.

Regards
DL

bubba, i have seen no profound wisdom out of you. just leading questions and smug, self-righteous, condescending remarks.

since i'm new here, maybe i've missed your relevant postings. perhaps you can direct me to a statement of what you believe to be the way the universe is organized?

so far all i've seen out of you is disbelief of what others have to say with little or no documentation to back yourself up.

 

[Greatest I am]

bubba, i have seen no profound wisdom out of you. just leading questions and smug, self-righteous, condescending remarks.

Sure beats your delusion.

since i'm new here, maybe i've missed your relevant postings. perhaps you can direct me to a statement of what you believe to be the way the universe is organized?

In a word, perfectly. For documentation. Look around and think about what you see.

"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPClzIsYxvA

so far all i've seen out of you is disbelief of what others have to say with little or no documentation to back yourself up.

How much belief should i give to those who believe that snakes and donkeys talk and a water walking immortal God can somehow die?

How much of that do you believe and what kind of documentation can I get for you to prove that animals cannot speak human and that all who try to water walk get wet?

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

you just keep on babbling, bubba.

i think i'll take my leave here.

 

[TommyTooter]

this was a good topic. now that you've had a chance to see more of my thoughts, perhaps you have some questions of me that i can reasonably answer?

i know you like to use evangelists in your threads and i'd especially be interested in reading your thoughts about dr. gene scott.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45cAaIHdozI

 

[Greatest I am]

this was a good topic. now that you've had a chance to see more of my thoughts, perhaps you have some questions of me that i can reasonably answer?

i know you like to use evangelists in your threads

If that was for me, show even one instance of my using an evangelists.
That is news to me.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

If that was for me, show even one instance of my using an evangelists.
That is news to me.

Regards
DL

maybe i should look more closely at those videos you post. i just assumed they were preaching some doctrine. doesn't have to be a christian for me to call somebody an evangelist -- like the hare krishnas for instance.

scott is an interesting character and i would still be interested in seeing your comments on his teaching.

 

[Greatest I am]

maybe i should look more closely at those videos you post. i just assumed they were preaching some doctrine. doesn't have to be a christian for me to call somebody an evangelist -- like the hare krishnas for instance.

scott is an interesting character and i would still be interested in seeing your comments on his teaching.

He is teaching dogma.
Dogma, to me, is synonymous with garbage.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

He is teaching dogma.
Dogma, to me, is synonymous with garbage.

Regards
DL

your syllogism is an ad hominem fallacy non sequitur.

unless you can state clearly what dogma he is teaching and why it is synonymous with garbage, your post is garbage and i'll just go back to ignoring you.