Theist. Would you give up your moral sense?

[Greatest I am]

Theist. Would you give up your moral sense?

A moral sense is developed with the knowledge of good and evil.

Ask any man if he is a better man with a moral sense or not.
He will answer that it is better for man to have a moral sense.
In other words, if given that same commandment by God today, man would be all that he can be by NOT obeying a command that basically keeps man as bright as a cow without a moral sense. To not reach out for the knowledge of good and evil would be wrong and disastrous for man. Eve did the right thing.

The churches, religions and God work quite hard to help us all develop a higher moral sense and to say that for Adam and Eve to NOT reach out for this trait that makes man good is idiocy.

Eve, as the older Hebrew and Jewish traditions believed, did not cause our fall but caused our elevation to a higher state even acknowledged by God. Gen 3 22. And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

A & E were following good advise in eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because without this knowledge, almost all issues remain outside the realm of discussions as most issues have aspects of good and evil.

Matthew 5:48
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If you wish to follow this quotation and emulate God as you are supposed to, then you have to follow Eve and develop your moral sense.

It was not a fall. It was an elevation.

The Gnostics, Jews and Hebrew were right and Constantine’s Church was wrong.

Below are just some things for non theists to think about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxyLZyBjyvY

http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html

http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/doubtingexodus.htm

If you happen to be a literalist or fundamental and have your belief based on faith, fantasy and magic, you may not want to bother watching or reading the above as you may have lost the ability to use reason and logic and will not understand them. This happens quite often to those with faith not based on facts.

““Reason is the Devil’s greatest whore;” M L.

That is why Martin Luther hated logic and reason so much. He knew that they were the enemy of faith as they proved and showed faith without facts to be for fools.

Would you follow Eve or give up your moral sense?

Regards
DL

 

[darkcgi]

I want to comment but just cant get my thoughts together on this one yet

 

[Greatest I am]

I want to comment but just cant get my thoughts together on this one yet

If I hurt your head, I am pleased. That is my job.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

If I hurt your head, I am pleased. That is my job.

Regards
DL

what a strange job.

do you get much business? i sure wouldn't hire you to hurt my head.

 

[hart]

Yeah but we pay dentists

 

[Greatest I am]

what a strange job.

do you get much business? i sure wouldn't hire you to hurt my head.

I get paid in hate by theists as they run from me.

If I got money for it, I would be quite well off.

Remember that your healing is done with right thinking.

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

I get paid in hate by theists as they run from me.

If I got money for it, I would be quite well off.

Remember that your healing is done with right thinking.

Regards
DL

i'll remember that the next time i need to heal something.

i will cede that right thinking should be more generally healthful than wrong thinking.

i have a tough time equating hate to theism, though. if so many theists hate you or appear to hate you when the principle commandment is to love, maybe there is something wrong with your approach?

 

[BornReady]

if so many theists hate you or appear to hate you when the principle commandment is to love, maybe there is something wrong with your approach?

Nah, he's fine. If people hate him that's their problem.

As to the OP, it's a tough choice. I have the offer of immortality on one hand or a moral compass on the other. I want both. If I had to pick then I'd take the moral compass.

 

[TommyTooter]

Nah, he's fine. If people hate him that's their problem.

As to the OP, it's a tough choice. I have the offer of immortality on one hand or a moral compass on the other. I want both. If I had to pick then I'd take the moral compass.

the spiritual options that appear in my viewfinder are that if there is nothing after the body is done, oh well, i've had an interesting life so far and it isn't close to over.

if i do have to pass some muster at the pearly gates, i'm confident that any penance i'll have to do for my sins in this world won't be sysyphusean or promethian in magnitude.

i'm not sure if i can agree with the premise of the OP. the rabbis speak of the fall from grace of adam and eve as being a situation where they had acquired this knowledge of good and evil without the maturity to discern properly between them, a dysfunction that persists in society today.

 

[Greatest I am]

i'll remember that the next time i need to heal something.

i will cede that right thinking should be more generally healthful than wrong thinking.

i have a tough time equating hate to theism, though. if so many theists hate you or appear to hate you when the principle commandment is to love, maybe there is something wrong with your approach?

Who can say what the best way to approach those who love to hate is.

The safest way, if one wants to be a coward, is on their knees.

That is after all exactly what Bible God demands or hell is the reward for those who dare stand like men instead of kowtowing like cowards.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Nah, he's fine. If people hate him that's their problem.

As to the OP, it's a tough choice. I have the offer of immortality on one hand or a moral compass on the other. I want both. If I had to pick then I'd take the moral compass.

Yes. Better a good man for a short time than a dumb beast forever.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

the spiritual options that appear in my viewfinder are that if there is nothing after the body is done, oh well, i've had an interesting life so far and it isn't close to over.

if i do have to pass some muster at the pearly gates, i'm confident that any penance i'll have to do for my sins in this world won't be sysyphusean or promethian in magnitude.

i'm not sure if i can agree with the premise of the OP. the rabbis speak of the fall from grace of adam and eve as being a situation where they had acquired this knowledge of good and evil without the maturity to discern properly between them, a dysfunction that persists in society today.

And like God, should we blame and punish childrens children because they have NOT been taught properly by adults?

Who is to blame for silly immature children? Themselves or their parents?

I would say their parents and in A & E case, God.

In the case of A & E, they were punished for success and not failure. They had become as Gods. That is quite good right?

Regards
DL

 

[TommyTooter]

Who can say what the best way to approach those who love to hate is.

The safest way, if one wants to be a coward, is on their knees.

That is after all exactly what Bible God demands or hell is the reward for those who dare stand like men instead of kowtowing like cowards.

Regards
DL

sorry, i just never saw the bible god in that light. the rabbis just must skip those parts or something. we were taught to find the spirit of the loving god inside us and do what it tells us to do. we stand and dance when we pray, not get on our knees. hell and the devil are things that don't get waved in our faces at all.

we were also taught that those stories were written thousands of years ago, may not have been entirely accurate then and may not have survived the ages unaltered.

 

[TommyTooter]

And like God, should we blame and punish childrens children because they have NOT been taught properly by adults?

Who is to blame for silly immature children? Themselves or their parents?

I would say their parents and in A & E case, God.

In the case of A & E, they were punished for success and not failure. They had become as Gods. That is quite good right?

Regards
DL

i'll beg off on the reward and punishment issue. i'm a mere mortal. it isn't possible for me to surmise the workings of the divine mind.

frankly most of what i read of any theology doesn't match what my self experiences in the spiritual plane.

 

[BornReady]

we were also taught that those stories were written thousands of years ago, may not have been entirely accurate then and may not have survived the ages unaltered.

lol That's an understatement. Adam & Eve are a myth. Accuracy isn't the point.

 

[TommyTooter]

lol That's an understatement. Adam & Eve are a myth. Accuracy isn't the point.

at least the rabbis are honest about that and even showed how the big bang and evolution fit the order of events as mythologized by moses in the torah. by the time moses got to abraham though, i think the stories are historical chronicles and that the later miracles witnessed did occur. notice that the genealogical thread is maintained by moses throughout the narrative of the five books.

i'm pretty convinced that there's a missing joker in the deck and that these myths were primitive witnessing of high technology by advanced humans and aliens who haven't been allowed to be here in a long time because of all the trouble it was causing.

brad steiger and erich von daniken published some fairly comprehensive treatises on the archaeological evidence of that premise.

 

[BornReady]

i'm pretty convinced that there's a missing joker in the deck and that these myths were primitive witnessing of high technology by advanced humans and aliens who haven't been allowed to be here in a long time because of all the trouble it was causing.

Belief in aliens is a lot like belief in God. I remain skeptical of both until I see some firm evidence.

 

[TommyTooter]

Belief in aliens is a lot like belief in God. I remain skeptical of both until I see some firm evidence.

i don't believe easily, either. i had noticed a lot of the things von daniken and steiger wrote about in the scriptures and myth fragments i had been reading before they started writing about it.

besides those hints, i haven't seen any evidence of other life in the universe in front of my face, but i've seen enough in my inner eye and heard enough with my inner ear to lean toward believing there's quite a bit more life in the universe than just us people here.

 

[Minor Axis]

The story and moral of A&E is very hard to swallow. If we did not know the difference between good and evil, would there be any challenges in our lives? This sounds very much like this concept is of human origin.

 

[Greatest I am]

i'll beg off on the reward and punishment issue. i'm a mere mortal. it isn't possible for me to surmise the workings of the divine mind.

frankly most of what i read of any theology doesn't match what my self experiences in the spiritual plane.

Not surprising.

As to the reward and punishment issue.
It is key to understanding what or who Bible God is and if he should be followed or not. please do not ignore it.
If you find justice in the Bible then you are wrong.

This is not to push your thinking but-----

Judgment and punishment go hand in hand.
Our human laws have a form of punishment where the penalty is graduated to fit the crime. An eye for an eye type of justice.
God‘s punishment seems to surpass this standard.

The definition I am comparing here is the eternal fire and torture type of hell and I am not particularly interested in the myriad of other definitions and theories that some use to supplant this traditional view.

To ascertain if hell would be a moral construct or not, all you need do is answer these
simple question for yourself.
1. Is it good justice for a soul to be able to sin for only 120 years and then have to suffer torture for 12000000000000000000000000 + years?
2. Is it good justice for small or mediocre sinners to have to bear the same sentence as Hitler, Stalin and other genocidal maniacs?
This might actually include God if you see Noah’s flood as God using genocide and not justice against man. Pardon the digression.
Punishment is usually only given to change attitude or actions and cause the sinner to repent.
3. Is it good justice to continue to torture a soul in hell if no change in attitude or actions are to result?
4. If you answered yes to these questions, then would killing the soul not be a better form of justice than to torture it for no possible good result or purpose?
Is hell a moral construct or not?
Please explain your reasons and know that ---just because God created it ---does not explain your moral judgment. It is your view I seek and not God’s as no one can speak for God.

Regards
DL