The real bad guys use real torture:

[IntruderLS1]

Purported Al Qaeda Video Shows Prisoners Burned Alive

Friday, February 15, 2008

• 

A screengrab from the purported Al Qaeda video.

Al Qaeda's latest display of terror has made its way onto the Internet, showing horrifying images of what appear to be prisoners in Iraq being doused with an inflammatory liquid and then burned alive.
The video, which appears to have been posted first on Google last December in an alleged anti-Al Qaeda Web film, shows five insurgents standing behind three blindfolded prisoners kneeling at the edge of a burning pit.
"And now that we have captured these scums who committed this dreadful crime, we will burn them with this fire," the Al Qaeda leader says in Arabic. "The same fire which they committed their crime with.
"And I swear by God almighty that, I swear by God almighty that we will have no mercy on them," he continues. "Allahuakbar, Allahuakbar."
As he speaks, two of the insurgents pour liquid on the blindfolded prisoners. Then they push the bound men into the pit, where they are engulfed in flames.
According to the summary — in Arabic and German — included in the nearly 15-minute video posted on Google, many of the clips were found in Diyala, Iraq. The makers of the film say that the originals were "passed to us by others."

Click here to see the video on a Turkish news site (WARNING: Very disturbing Images).

Click here to see the full video on Google (WARNING: Very disturbing images).

 

[All Else Failed]

Ok this is true but that doesn't excuse water boarding.

 

[gLing]

It's amazing that there are people who compare this to water boarding. :24:

 

[Peter Parka]

Only person here I've seen compare this to water boarding is Intruder.:smiley24:

 

[IntruderLS1]

Amazing is a very polite word.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Only person here I've seen compare this to water boarding is Intruder.:smiley24:

I'm saying it's so different they can't be compared. Where's the problem?

 

[Peter Parka]

I'm saying it's so different they can't be compared. Where's the problem?

You're the only one who compares them by saying that waterboarding is ok because it isn't this.

 

[All Else Failed]

So what you're saying is, since they use more violent things for torture, water boarding is ok and should be allowed.



Hey, want to see something far worse than all of that put together?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3YvXdsz-w4

 

[dt3]

If somebody's on fire, and you use water-boarding to put it out, is water-boarding still torture?

 

[gLing]

Only person here I've seen compare this to water boarding is Intruder.:smiley24:

AEF does. He lumps water boarding and that together all as torture.
An intimidation technique that does not inflict actual harm on somebody can't be put in the same category as setting somebody on fire, beating them half to death, electrocuting them, pulling their fingernails out, mutilating them etc.
They are not even remotely the same in any way at all.

 

[Peter Parka]

AEF does. He lumps water boarding and that together all as torture.
An intimidation technique that does not inflict actual harm on somebody can't be put in the same category as setting somebody on fire, beating them half to death, electrocuting them, pulling their fingernails out, mutilating them etc.
They are not even remotely the same in any way at all.

Look up the standard definition of torture. You are wrong, simple as.

From the free online dictionary

1. a. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
b. An instrument or a method for inflicting such pain.

2. Excruciating physical or mental pain; agony: the torture of waiting in suspense.
3. Something causing severe pain or anguish.

You can agree with some forms of torture if you like but that dosen't change the fact that it is torture.

 

[All Else Failed]

AEF does. He lumps water boarding and that together all as torture.
An intimidation technique that does not inflict actual harm on somebody can't be put in the same category as setting somebody on fire, beating them half to death, electrocuting them, pulling their fingernails out, mutilating them etc.
They are not even remotely the same in any way at all.

Because it is torture.


Water boarding can cause mental anguish and even death in some cases. All torture doesn't have to be physical to be torture. How many times do I have to cite Chinese water torture? Vietnam vets know about it.

 

[IntruderLS1]

Does it matter at all that the people getting water boarded are the same people doing the "real" torture before they're caught?

Does it matter that getting the information out of them quickly is the only way to have current enough information to catch their buddies before they can strike again?

Does it matter that the sooner we beat them, the sooner we can all get on with our lives in peace?

 

[IntruderLS1]

Is it ethical to let these people sit in comfort in a cell without trying to get information from that that will stop the torture of legitimate civilians?

 

[Peter Parka]

Does it matter at all that the people getting water boarded are the same people doing the "real" torture before they're caught?

You really believe they are ALL terrorists. How do you explain why they haven't been charged with anything and why some of them have been finally released scot free and innocent then?

 

[All Else Failed]

Does it matter at all that the people getting water boarded are the same people doing the "real" torture before they're caught?

Does it matter that getting the information out of them quickly is the only way to have current enough information to catch their buddies before they can strike again?

Does it matter that the sooner we beat them, the sooner we can all get on with our lives in peace?

Yeah, lets sacrifice all of our principles and ethics to fight a war to secure a foothold in some dumb sandbox.

Is it ethical to let these people sit in comfort in a cell without trying to get information from that that will stop the torture of legitimate civilians?

Use torture to....stop....torture....hmmm


Terrorism for terrorism! sweet!

 

[Maulds]

Does it matter at all that the people getting water boarded are the same people doing the "real" torture before they're caught?

Nope. Same reason it's "barbaric" to give a murderer a lethel injection.

 

[All Else Failed]

Nope. Same reason it's "barbaric" to give a murderer a lethel injection.:smiley24:

Murder for murder.

 

[gLing]

Because it is torture.


Water boarding can cause mental anguish and even death in some cases. All torture doesn't have to be physical to be torture. How many times do I have to cite Chinese water torture? Vietnam vets know about it.

Riding in a car on a freeway causes me mental anguish and my chances of death are significantly greater. So is my boyfriend torturing me when he drives us downtown?

Definitions of torture.


1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

2.a method of inflicting such pain.

3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.

4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.

5.a cause of severe pain or anguish. –verb (used with object)

6.to subject to torture.

7.to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.

8.to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!

9.to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.

10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).

Now I imagine you will use #4 "extreme anguish of the mind"as a claim water boarding is torture. However anybody can take that and apply it to any situation where somebody is scared or made uncomfortable.

In fact a slick lawyer could use it as an argument to not imprison a convicted murderer on the grounds that putting him in prison will cause his client extreme mental anguish and thus be torture under that definition.

 

[All Else Failed]

Riding in a car on a freeway causes me mental anguish and my chances of death are significantly greater. So is my boyfriend torturing me when he drives us downtown?

Definitions of torture.


1.the act of inflicting excruciating pain, as punishment or revenge, as a means of getting a confession or information, or for sheer cruelty.

2.a method of inflicting such pain.

3.Often, tortures. the pain or suffering caused or undergone.

4.extreme anguish of body or mind; agony.

5.a cause of severe pain or anguish. –verb (used with object)

6.to subject to torture.

7.to afflict with severe pain of body or mind: My back is torturing me.

8.to force or extort by torture: We'll torture the truth from his lips!

9.to twist, force, or bring into some unnatural position or form: trees tortured by storms.

10.to distort or pervert (language, meaning, etc.).

Now I imagine you will use #4 "extreme anguish of the mind"as a claim water boarding is torture. However anybody can take that and apply it to any situation where somebody is scared or made uncomfortable.

In fact a slick lawyer could use it as an argument to not imprison a convicted murderer on the grounds that putting him in prison will cause his client extreme mental anguish and thus be torture under that definition.

Are you eve serious with that statement? It doesn't even apply.