The Bush Administration's Most Despicable Act

Users who are viewing this thread

Meirionnydd

Active Member
Messages
793
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Actually the National Review is anti-neo-con and has been from the very beginning. Typical liberal knee-jerk reaction. If you can't refute the source attempt to discredit it. Note the author of the article. BTW, the wiretapping that you claim is illegal has been upheld by the very court assigned to review it. Further, btw, you failed as requested to provide specific examples, as typical, you give talking points without substance.

No, the National Review is a neo-conservative magazine.

Austin Bramwell, a former director of the National Review refers to it as a neo-conserative publication.

Yep, and the author of the last article you posted has a quote from Leo Strauss on the main page of his website. Leo Strauss being one of the 'fathers' of the neo-con movement.
 
  • 32
    Replies
  • 577
    Views
  • 0
    Participant count
    Participants list

Accountable

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,962
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
0.00z
The typical conservative approach of making excuses for the most fucked up leadership the U.S. has seen since WWII. Not only fucked up but dangerous...

You see the U.S. has never tortured anybody, nor has it tried to circumvent the Geneva convention. :smiley24:
I don't agree with what's been happening either, but the Geneva convention doesn't apply here. It is for conventional war between conventional armies that have uniformed soldiers. It applies when both sides have agreed to comply. Otherwise, it's just a damn good idea.
 

Minor Axis

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,294
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.02z
I don't agree with what's been happening either, but the Geneva convention doesn't apply here. It is for conventional war between conventional armies that have uniformed soldiers. It applies when both sides have agreed to comply. Otherwise, it's just a damn good idea.

For your consideration, when you start declaring enemy combatants based on secret non-verifiable evidence and go as far as identifying a U.S. citizen as an enemy combatant, that worries me. Why? Not because everyone is going to follow the "rules", it's because of the potential for abuse. Locking up someone and throwing away the key is something I've always associated with 3rd world dictators and not something the U.S. has every stood for until the Bush/Gonzalez Administration. (Gonzalez former AG).
 

Strauss

Active Member
Messages
718
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
I don't agree with what's been happening either, but the Geneva convention doesn't apply here. It is for conventional war between conventional armies that have uniformed soldiers. It applies when both sides have agreed to comply. Otherwise, it's just a damn good idea.

Bingo, give that man a cigar.
 

Accountable

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,962
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
0.00z
For your consideration, when you start declaring enemy combatants based on secret non-verifiable evidence and go as far as identifying a U.S. citizen as an enemy combatant, that worries me. Why? Not because everyone is going to follow the "rules", it's because of the potential for abuse. Locking up someone and throwing away the key is something I've always associated with 3rd world dictators and not something the U.S. has every stood for until the Bush/Gonzalez Administration. (Gonzalez former AG).
Agreed. Still nothing to do with the Geneva Convention, though. :)
 

Accountable

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,962
Reaction score
1
Tokenz
0.00z
Bingo, give that man a cigar.
output.gif


arg-exploding-cigar.gif
 

Strauss

Active Member
Messages
718
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
Specifically, what power do you believe Bush enlarged? Don't give me generalizations, point to the specific power(s).

illegal wiretapping

Court Affirms Wiretapping Without Warrants
By JAMES RISEN and ERIC LICHTBLAU
WASHINGTON — In a rare public ruling, a secret federal appeals court has said telecommunications companies must cooperate with the government to intercept international phone calls and e-mail of American citizens suspected of being spies or terrorists.
The ruling came in a case involving an unidentified company’s challenge to 2007 legislation that expanded the president’s legal power to conduct wiretapping without warrants for intelligence purposes.
But the ruling, handed down in August 2008 by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review and made public Thursday, did not directly address whether President Bush was within his constitutional powers in ordering domestic wiretapping without warrants, without first getting Congressional approval, after the terrorist attacks of 2001.
Several legal experts cautioned that the ruling had limited application, since it dealt narrowly with the carrying out of a law that had been superseded by new legislation. But the ruling is still the first by an appeals court that says the Fourth Amendment’s requirement for warrants does not apply to the foreign collection of intelligence involving Americans. That finding could have broad implications for United States national security law.
The court ruled that eavesdropping on Americans believed to be agents of a foreign power “possesses characteristics that qualify it for such an exception.”
Bruce M. Selya, the chief judge of the review court, wrote in the opinion that “our decision recognizes that where the government has instituted several layers of serviceable safeguards to protect individuals against unwarranted harms and to minimize incidental intrusions, its efforts to protect national security should not be frustrated by the courts.”
The three-judge court, which hears rare appeals from the full Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, addressed provisions of the Protect America Act, passed by Congress in 2007 amid the controversy over Mr. Bush’s program of wiretapping without warrants. It found that the administration had put in place sufficient privacy safeguards to meet the constitutional standards of the Fourth Amendment’s ban on unreasonable searches.
Because of that, the company had to cooperate, the court said.
That finding bolstered the Bush administration’s broader arguments on wiretapping without warrants, both critics and supporters said.
William C. Banks, a law professor at Syracuse University who has criticized the administration’s legal position on eavesdropping, said that while the ruling did not address Mr. Bush’s surveillance without warrants directly, “it does bolster his case” by recognizing that eavesdropping for national security purposes did not always require warrants.
Coming in the final days of the Bush administration, the ruling was hailed by the administration and conservatives as a victory for an aggressive approach to counterterrorism. The Justice Department said in a statement that it was “pleased with this important ruling.”
“It provides a very good result; it reaffirms the president’s right to conduct warrantless searches,” said David Rivkin, a Washington lawyer who has served in Republican administrations.
Representative Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the ranking Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, said the ruling “reinforces the significant, bipartisan political consensus” in favor of the president’s broad assertions of wiretapping powers.
<SNIP>
The ruling is the latest legal chapter in a dispute dating back to the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, when Mr. Bush secretly ordered the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on the international communications of American citizens without the approval of Congress or the courts. After the agency’s program was publicly disclosed in December 2005, critics said it violated a 1978 law. The White House initially opposed any new legislation to regulate surveillance, arguing that it would be an infringement of the president’s powers.
<SNIP>
The case arose in 2007, when a telecommunications company refused to comply with the government’s demands that it cooperate without warrants under the terms of the Protect America Act. The company was forced to comply, under threat of contempt, while it challenged the law in the FISA court, the opinion noted.
The company argued that the law violated the constitutional rights of its customers and that the act placed too much power and discretion in the hands of the executive branch. It also raised specific privacy problems, which the court ruling did not identify, that could occur under the surveillance directives it had received from the government.
In rejecting the company’s complaint, the FISA appeals court found that the administration had so carefully carried out the Protect America Act that it was not in violation of the Fourth Amendment. It concluded that the procedures put in place under the law properly balanced the constitutional rights of American citizens and the national security interests of the government.
The company argued that “by placing discretion entirely in the hands of the executive branch without prior judicial involvement, the procedures cede to that branch overly broad power that invites abuse,” the court wrote.
But, the court ruled, “this is little more than a lament about the risk that government officials will not operate in good faith.’
“That sort of risk exists even when a warrant is required,” it said.
Scott Shane contributed reporting.
Oh My!

I do question however, why is it when the NYT referred previously to this in articles it was always referred to as "domestic warrantless wiretapping" but now its "foreign collection of intelligence"?
Good thing the NYT wrote about this today; we wouldn't want Obama accused of "illegal domestic wiretapping". :sarcasm

Full article here>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/16/washington/16fisa.html?_r=1&ref=us
 

Ryder

Mod hopeful
Messages
10,508
Reaction score
0
Tokenz
0.00z
"This is not the America I know," President George W. Bush said after the first, horrifying pictures of U.S. troops torturing prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq surfaced in April 2004. The President was not telling the truth. "This" was the America he had authorized on Feb. 7, 2002, when he signed a memorandum stating that the Third Geneva Convention — the one regarding the treatment of enemy prisoners taken in wartime — did not apply to members of al-Qaeda or the Taliban. That signature led directly to the abuses at Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo Bay. It was his single most callous and despicable act. It stands at the heart of the national embarrassment that was his presidency. Read more.......

Damn. Damn him.
 
78,878Threads
2,185,399Messages
4,961Members
Back
Top