Supreme Court Backs Gitmo Detainees

[Peter Parka]

Imagine if everyone of them were given the right to seek redress in a US civil court--absolutely ridiculous.

No, that would be fair. How about Lord Haw Haw for instance? He was executed for treason. All he did was go over to Germany and broadcast a load of propaganda on the radio. He didn't take part in any fighting or kill anyone. Pretty much the same stuff as Comical Ali did in Iraq. Comical Ali was picked up but released without charge. Death sentence for Haw Haw was going waaaay too far!

 

[Minor Axis]

That was written before this most recent catastrophe of a stupid politically motivated decision.

I see no merit in this statement. The decision was not catastrophic, not stupid, and not politically motivated. Let's see how the situation develops and a year from now if we can still find this thread, we can revisit it and judge what actually happened as a result of the decision.

For some reason you have not addressed the Bush Admin insisting that these POW detainees not be given Geneva Convention protections. This policy is a direct threat to future U.S. military personnel who find themselves captured by the enemy.

President Bush Speak:
"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

 

[Minor Axis]

Fox you seem so certain that everything with Gitmo detainees are on the up and up when there are so many indicators that something is not right.

 

[Minor Axis]

Hey Minor--how's the air space today (talking about the stratosphere not the space between your ears!)

Seriously though--I NEVER said that everythng with Gitmo is on the up and up.

You only sound concerned about this "disastrous Gitmo decision" when you should be concerned about how Gitmo has been administered.

I am though extremely amused at how much "concern" people on the left show for Gitmo prisoners (msot of which are some of the most dangerous men on the planet) yet have no concern whatsoever for the average Joe American prisoner. There's plenty of funky shit goin down in the city (Steve Miller Reference! ) jails and prisons. Gitmo prisoners are treated better than a lot of American prisoners in our jails. And the system of jurisprudence right here in the USA is plenty worthy of liberal concern for civil rights.

Stop focusing totally on the bad terrorists and look at the bigger picture. Other than I'm against the concept of locking up people based on unknown evidence and throwing away the key, I don't really think most detainees are good people. But I'm very concerned about you, me, our liberties, and our soldiers in conflict. How many times must I say this, Abu Grave and Gitmo are huge problems when they circle around and bite us on the ass. Torture is not our standard. Our civil liberties are being eroded by the actions of our government. Your perception of security is not worth flushing away our Constitution.

Bottom line is the only reason there is such a focus on Gitmo by the media is because they can use it directly to attack George Bush.

And he deserves to be attacked for Gitmo and all the other disastrous choices he's made.

And frankly the amount of misinformation on this whole subject of unlawful combatants is astounding to me. The problem is too many people just believe what a newspaper or media journalist says and these are some of the last people on earth anyone should trust--they are right there with used car salesman in terms of ethics. They'll say or do anything to sell their stories and primarily they are looking to appeal to people's emotions, not their intellect.

Oh? On what basis do you determine info is misinformation? What's your news source, Fox News and Limbaugh? Unless you were there, ultimately we get all of our information through some form of media and it all boils down to whom do you want to believe. I can't help it when I add 2+2 I get 4 but you get 6.

 

[Minor Axis]

I read an article in News Week about that female sergeant who had the naked guy on the collar and leash at Abu Grave. Do you realize that no one above E5 was disciplined? Do you realize that people were tortured to death in Abu Grave? I talked to a military buddy of mine who says these "black ops" guys would come in, no one at the lower levels knew who they were, they'd do their thing and leave. (unsubstantiated rumor- the way the Administration likes it.) Only one documented death has surfaced a photo taken by a soldier who wanted to become a forensic photographer. It was pictures of a body in a shower.

Yeah, we all saw the pictures, well most of us, but if you want to be afraid, it is of what they never took pictures of and what was hidden. If you think that the soldiers who were punished were a group of rogue soldiers acting on their own, then a serious reality check is in order.

 

[Alien Allen]

Have not read thru all this so my bad if this is repetitive.................

The gitmo detainees had not even requested a determination that there was merit to detain them. They bypassed the process of doing that by going to the supreme court.

Stupid decision by the SC. We are a nation of sheep being led by all kinds of idiots in govt. IMO

 

[Minor Axis]

Newsweek 6/23- Do as I Say, Not as I Do by Sharon Begley- Outstanding article regarding hypocrisy.

"When "people like us" torture, it's justified; when people unlike us do, it's an atrocity. When we make that judgment, the brain's cognitive regions are the hypocrites; emotional regions make honest judgments and see the heinous behavior for what it is."

 

[Minor Axis]

Why? :confused

I'll let others judge the validity of my statements, you're a hopeless cause.

What's the relevance of the article to this thread? :confused

If I must explain, the article is about hypocrisy, something rampant in Gitmo, the federal government, and much of corporate America (although corporate America is not part of this thread).

 

[Minor Axis]

2009 Update

Now that some real decisions are being made regarding Gitmo detainees I think the Republican Party is loosing their collective minds. This is despite a jail in Hardin, Montana who would be more than happy to take them. They need the jobs.

"They are just too scary, we can't bring them into the country because they will be terrorizing us on Main Street U.S.A! Lock your doors and do not venture forth!"

So to update current forum wisdom, do you believe in Habeas Corpus, basically your right to unlawful detention and your day in court in a timely fashion?

Or if the government thinks you are dangerous, it should be allowed to hold you indefinitely?

If you believe in this bedrock principle (Habeas Corpus) as part of our way of life, then you have to give these people due process, period. That means they must be tried in a Federal Court, in the U.S. as there are no U.S. Federal Courts overseas or they must be tried by a Military Tribunal. Could this tribunal be held Gitmo? I'm not sure! Has the military legal standard for detainees been discredited in this conflict? I don't remember specifically but I think there are some people being held with not enough evidence to try them. Anything I am missing? I'll say it first- "yeah, your mind...".

If you don't believe in this principle, then don't complain when the black bag team shows up at your house in the middle of the night and you are never seen again, ok?

 

[Alien Allen]

Geeze Minor I expected better from you. The senate voiced their concern with over 90 senators against the current plans of Obama. Last I looked the dems had at least 59 senators did they not.

I saw where MI offered the idea to build a northern gitmo in the upper peninsula of MI

I would find nothing wrong as long as the prison is strictly for the gitmo detainees. I would not want them thrown into a general prison population.

 

[canidae]

Geeze Minor I expected better from you. The senate voiced their concern with over 90 senators against the current plans of Obama. Last I looked the dems had at least 59 senators did they not.

I saw where MI offered the idea to build a northern gitmo in the upper peninsula of MI

I would find nothing wrong as long as the prison is strictly for the gitmo detainees. I would not want them thrown into a general prison population.

What are your concerns with putting them in the general prison population

 

[Alien Allen]

What are your concerns with putting them in the general prison population

Many of these are radical islamic nuts. Would you not expect them to try to make converts? Do you want to take the chance they could indoctrinate existing inmates to take on their cause?

I am pretty cynical. I wonder why there is not more outrage in the streets from the Islamo nuts who will protest at the least of things that insult them. I put nothing past AQ. They place no value on their own lives when it comes to their cause. Could it be they want to ply their trade in our prisons? Is that so far feteched given how clever they have been at attacking us?

I am not saying I believe the above to be fact but in the back of my mind I have to wonder if.

Now everybody can go ahead and slam me

 

[canidae]

Many of these are radical islamic nuts. Would you not expect them to try to make converts? Do you want to take the chance they could indoctrinate existing inmates to take on their cause?

I am pretty cynical. I wonder why there is not more outrage in the streets from the Islamo nuts who will protest at the least of things that insult them. I put nothing past AQ. They place no value on their own lives when it comes to their cause. Could it be they want to ply their trade in our prisons? Is that so far feteched given how clever they have been at attacking us?

I am not saying I believe the above to be fact but in the back of my mind I have to wonder if.

Now everybody can go ahead and slam me

Not going to slam you at all, just wanted your opinion. And I can see you point.

 

[Alien Allen]

Not going to slam you at all, just wanted your opinion. And I can see you point.

Thanks but you are welcome to.

I have a large target on my back

Another thing is possible attempts to rescue them. I would rather have one prison with special security than routine prison security. And would want them in a more remote area.

I tell ya though the whole thing is a mess. On the one hand our country was founded on the concept of a right to prompt and fair trial.

Who is to say they are guilty without a trial yet the evidence would be suspect and in our legal system I imagine a lot of bad people would get released.

Sometimes capturing is not the best option perhaps.

 

[canidae]

Thanks but you are welcome to.

I have a large target on my back

Another thing is possible attempts to rescue them. I would rather have one prison with special security than routine prison security. And would want them in a more remote area.

I tell ya though the whole thing is a mess. On the one hand our country was founded on the concept of a right to prompt and fair trial.

Who is to say they are guilty without a trial yet the evidence would be suspect and in our legal system I imagine a lot of bad people would get released.

Sometimes capturing is not the best option perhaps.

Obviously this is not an easy issue, what with all the debate back and forth in here and throughout the country, and even the world. If this was a war like situation that had some foreseeable end to it, where both sides were bound to some sense of 'honor' for lack of a better word, then we'd be looking to release these detainees at some point. But I don't see the other side sitting down to discuss terms, or anything else for that matter.