Stop Hiding. Let's vote!

The Second article of Amendment to the United States Constitution is hereby repealed

  • Yea

    Votes: 3 20.0%
  • Nea

    Votes: 12 80.0%

  • Total voters
    15

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Jackass master

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No. Shall not be infringed. Pretty straight forward. The first step to making serfs out of citizens is to disarm them. No law will ever take my weapons while I am on this side of the grass. No registration. No lists. No problem.
 
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porterjack

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No. Shall not be infringed. Pretty straight forward. The first step to making serfs out of citizens is to disarm them. No law will ever take my weapons while I am on this side of the grass. No registration. No lists. No problem.

US mindset again , if an un armed population denotes serfdom . Most of the western world is inhabited by serfs

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Jackass master

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Those are the same folks who ask us to fight their battles because they can't. Look at the past few years. I note there is a big effort to restore your gun rights in Canada right now. How did that registration/confiscation work out for you??
 

porterjack

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Those are the same folks who ask us to fight their battles because they can't. Look at the past few years. I note there is a big effort to restore your gun rights in Canada right now. How did that registration/confiscation work out for you??
you are confusing civil with international conflict, the western world, for the most part welcomed US intervention in conflict, even though history shows us that you guys only played the second half of WW2 :) However the unarmed populations of western europe, canada, australia are from being serfs

and i dont know of any effort to restore gun rights in canada, we scrapped a controversial, ineffective and very very expensive long gun registry because it was ill conceived and too difficult to administer. we suffer from gun related crime, guess where the guns come from
 

Jackass master

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Sure seems like a lot of folks come to the states to use our healthcare over socialized medicine. As for the guns you folks no longer have, their lack has led to increased crime in every nation you mentioned. As to where they come from perhaps you suffer from a lack of border security like we do. I choose not to be part of the rose colored glasses socialist experiment.
 

porterjack

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Anyways
Back on track

Francis states that the constitution is rigid, the OP suggests otherwise, can we explore that. What would it take to repeal any part of the constitution? Dont say armed rebellion!!!!

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Accountable

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You've got such a chip on your shoulder when it comes to the Constitution.
Yes. You would, too, if you (1)cared about the rule of law and (2) did the research.

You think others hide cause they are too scared to say what they think, and you and apparently only a small band of Constitutionalists (true patriots) think the document is written in stone, and are the only ones brave enough to state your opinions? :smiley24:
{written for those that actually read}
Not even close. Many are very vocal, including you, but don't want to do the one thing that would be legally effective - amending the Constitution. You prefer instead to try to "reinterpret" what's plainly written, or just ignore the document altogether as if it has an expiration date.

You and many others have some real issues with the Second Amendment as in you imagine some nefarious characters are trying to repeal it.
No, no one is going to repeal it because no one even has the balls to bring it up.

And do you really think it means and the intent was, carte blanche, no regulation? So by your read, what's happening in this country with gun control, according to the Constitution, do mentally unstable people have a right to bear arms??
There you go again, trying to tell me what I think. As I stated before, I voted YEA, but of course that didn't make it past your filters, either.

Argument number two is that when the Constitution was written, there were musket loaders, not assault rifles. While generally I support the right of individuals to bear arms, my choice would be to rewrite the Second Amendment to reflect the reality of modern technology. If you want to call that repealing the current Second Amendment, so be it. This is my opinion. I'm not going to argue with you about it.
So vote that way, and call your representatives. Press them to make the law align with what you want, rather than skirting around it like a coward.


As far as your misleading poll (with no background, no reference to current events, no clarifcations), I voted "no" not repeal, because the way it is presented, "yes" imo implies do away with it and take away the right. I've explained above, that I would support a rewrite of the Second Amendment, and support reasonable and rational means of curbing gun violence in this country.
I copied the 20th Amendment ver batim, then changed Eighteenth to Second. God, you're ignorant of your Constitution. I'm really embarrassed for you.
 

Accountable

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will you take a vote from a Canadian? Who by his own admission does not understand the history or relevance of the constitution but give n the chance would vote Yea, simply put i see no need for individuials to take up arms - not now you have a professional Army and police force
No way of knowing who votes, how, or why. Go ahead.

I say that all opinions are welcome as long as they are informed. :)

The Army and police force represent the State/government. It is believed, considering the way the country was founded, the writers of the Constitution had a fear of government and wanted the people to be able to arm themselves in case government got out of hand. However I do not believe that the Founding Fathers would think that assault rifles were a good thing in the hands of looneys and mass public shootings.

But instead of questioning the levels of mass public shootings, the NRA and proponents of the NRA think the ability to own large magazine assault rifles is a right guaranteed by the U.S. Constitution to a point that the type of collateral damage we have been seeing in the U.S. is an unfortunate, but necessary to guarantee this right. Most reasonable people, even NRA members would question this. NRA leadership stands apart from the definition of "reasonable" when it comes to guns.
And instead of voting to change the constitution, whiners whine, and people who are supposed to uphold it violate it.

Fuckin pussies.
 

Accountable

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Accountable, are you out of your ever loving mind? Cause me think you are being ultra sarcastic and it's for no real good reason. If you can get the bad guys to all agree to shoot folks with rubber bands I'd like to hear how? :D
Not sarcastic in the least. I'm just tired of all this crying about the Second Amendment going too far, but the criers being too afraid to actually step up. I suspect it's because they don't think they'd win the argument and the question would be settled. So long as they can avoid direct confrontation they can bitch and moan. I'm tired of it.

Personally, I think it's time to repeal the Second Amendment. But by that I mean complete repeal, not replacing it with a more restrictive amendment. The right to bear arms is a long established right. By taking specific mention of it out of the Constitution, it falls under the 9th Amendment ("The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.") and Washington would forever be prohibited from touching the issue because of the 10th Amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.").
 

Accountable

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so that goes some way to enlightening me on the reason for the amendment

do people today still have that much fear of state/government that they need to arm themselves against it?
Fear is not really relevant. The fear is not there because the arms are available. We won't need the right unless and until the gov't takes it away. This is the same reasoning union leaders use to preserve their political machines (they call them unions), and they have the most foolish members singing with them, but their argument doesn't stand up as well as the right to bear arms does.
 

Accountable

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Changing the US Constitution is a major undertaking.. It's called a Rigid Constitution and much different than ours in Canada.

And the fundamental right in the Second Amendment will be fought until the Union comes apart IMO.

This is why I asked Accountable if he was in favor of scrapping it and starting with a fresh one.. Basically it would probably be easier than changing the present one again IMO..
Ah. Okay. I think Jefferson argued that we should rewrite the Constitution every 20 years or something. The specifics are foggy. It probably would have been a good tradition to have started back in the beginning. Our system is too corrupt and cancerous now, though, to try it. I predict the whole thing will go the way of all empires in a generation or so.
 

Accountable

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US mindset again , if an un armed population denotes serfdom . Most of the western world is inhabited by serfs
I agree. Gilded cage. Freedom entails risk of failure. Most of the western world wants their gov't to protect them against risk, against failure. That's not freedom; it's a gilded cage.
 

Accountable

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Anyways
Back on track

Francis states that the constitution is rigid, the OP suggests otherwise, can we explore that. What would it take to repeal any part of the constitution? Dont say armed
"The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate."

It's complicated, it's hard, it's cumbersome, it's a pain in the ass. It was written to be that way on purpose. The federal gov't was created to be small and tightly controlled. Any changes were to be hard-won and well-deserved.
 

teh_fuzz

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I do NOT support a weapons ban.

Assault rifles for everyone!
no really!

im still looking to buy something functional that looks like this :D :

vk4l100lr.jpg
 

Francis

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Those are the same folks who ask us to fight their battles because they can't. Look at the past few years. I note there is a big effort to restore your gun rights in Canada right now. How did that registration/confiscation work out for you??

Misconception..

In Canada you have always had the right to have a gun.. What they revoked was the long gun registry..

Can you get a concealed weapons permit in Canada.. Yup you can, but it won't be as easy as it is in the US..

Can you get a semi automatic weapon.. Nope..

Can you get a find many hunters with shot guns that can blow away a moose.. You bet and some..

Do we have criminals with guns.. Yah they get them across the border where there is apparently 310 million firearms floating around in houses..
 

Minor Axis

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There you go again, trying to tell me what I think. As I stated before, I voted YEA, but of course that didn't make it past your filters, either.

No I was asking you a question, but you said that you voted yes so people would not be afraid to vote yes??? What's the real answer? ;)

So vote that way, and call your representatives. Press them to make the law align with what you want, rather than skirting around it like a coward.

I copied the 20th Amendment ver batim, then changed Eighteenth to Second. God, you're ignorant of your Constitution. I'm really embarrassed for you.

First I am a acting like coward and ignorant of the Constitution? Really? You really don't know what you are talking about. I posted a long thread in this forum about my Constitutional education a while back, but I guess you forgot about that. And you have no idea what I advocate to my Representatives or why. PS, your premise from the beginning of this thread has been an adversarial one.
 

Accountable

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No I was asking you a question, but you said that you voted yes so people would not be afraid to vote yes??? What's the real answer? ;)

Personally, I think it's time to repeal the Second Amendment. But by that I mean complete repeal, not replacing it with a more restrictive amendment. The right to bear arms is a long established right. By taking specific mention of it out of the Constitution, it falls under the 9th Amendment ("The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.") and Washington would forever be prohibited from touching the issue because of the 10th Amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.").

First I am a acting like coward and ignorant of the Constitution? Really? You really don't know what you are talking about. I posted a long thread in this forum about my Constitutional education a while back, [...]
Then you should have recognized the wording.
 

Minor Axis

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Not sarcastic in the least. I'm just tired of all this crying about the Second Amendment going too far, but the criers being too afraid to actually step up. I suspect it's because they don't think they'd win the argument and the question would be settled. So long as they can avoid direct confrontation they can bitch and moan. I'm tired of it.

Personally, I think it's time to repeal the Second Amendment. But by that I mean complete repeal, not replacing it with a more restrictive amendment. The right to bear arms is a long established right. By taking specific mention of it out of the Constitution, it falls under the 9th Amendment ("The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.") and Washington would forever be prohibited from touching the issue because of the 10th Amendment ("The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.").

I did not focus on your reply to Hart, sorry. No need to be embarrassed for me. And no, if you are wondering, I don't have the Constitution memorized, so I'd have to look up what the 10th Amendment concerns. Setting traps for people in the forum now? (lol) ...trying to prove exactly what, how grounded and knowledgeable your Constitutional views are as compared to other participants, as if that adds validity to your views?
 
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Accountable

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I did not focus on your reply to Hart, sorry. No need to be embarrassed for me. And no, if you are wondering, I don't have the Constitution memorized, so I'd have to look up what the 10th Amendment concerns. Setting traps for people in the forum now? (lol) ...trying to prove exactly what, how grounded and knowledgeable your Constitutional views are as compared to other participants, as if that adds validity to your views?
I quoted it in it's entirety in the response to Hart. exactly what trap you do think I've set? I have my reasons for my vote and I explained them. Is that the "trap" you mean?
You voted against your own reasons because of some weird paranoia? You give me too much power over you, but you do the same with unions and the dem party, so I guess at least you're consistent.
 

Minor Axis

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I quoted it in it's entirety in the response to Hart. exactly what trap you do think I've set? I have my reasons for my vote and I explained them. Is that the "trap" you mean?
You voted against your own reasons because of some weird paranoia? You give me too much power over you, but you do the same with unions and the dem party, so I guess at least you're consistent.

So what's this?
I copied the 20th Amendment ver batim, then changed Eighteenth to Second. God, you're ignorant of your Constitution. I'm really embarrassed for you.

No paranoia. I voted based on how you presented it. This is getting old with you. I think we have better things to do then continuously butt heads.
 
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