Selling the lie about 9/11 and Iraq.

[JuJu]

Once again, selling the lie that 9/11 and invading Iraq are connected. THEY ARE NOT.
Once again, pretending that fighting in Iraq, which never had Al Qaeda in it until we invaded, is somehow connected to fighting the people who attacked us on 9/11.

I work in NYC once a week, I'm always going through tunnels and bridges to get there, I ride the subways -- believe me, I'd LIKE IT if I felt the president was doing something that made America -- and me -- safer.

But invading Iraq has made us less safe, and has created many, many more terrorists. To recruit more Al Qaeda members, they can now say: "Look America wants to destroy Islam -- they've invaded an Islamic country that didn't attack them." Right? Good tool for recruiting. After our early successes against Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, we got into the "let's make more terrorists" game by invading Iraq.

The invasion of Iraq was an idée fixe of the Bush administration, and loony Cheney, who (as we now know thanks to YouTube) pointed out all the reasons that invading Iraq was foolhardy back in 1994, then changed his mind for reasons I don't know, and after 9/11 started pushing and twisting intelligence to SELL America on the idea of invading Iraq.

Plus preemptive war is immoral, oh you bellicose Christians out there. And Iraq is the perfect proof of that- - we were not in imminent danger, we had our facts wrong about WMD, Saddam wasn't almost having nuclear weapons (which I never believed even back then), and now we're in a quagmire.

The Freedom's Watch ads -- designed to run in 20-or-so states to convince their representatives (mostly Republican, some Democrats) to support Bush in CONTINUING THE WAR UNTIL HELL FREEZES OVER -- poignantly show soldiers without limbs telling us that if we withdraw from Iraq, their sacrifice will be for nothing. And also a woman whose uncle died in 9/11 and whose husband died in Iraq -- and she once again is holding the belief that the attack and our invasion are logically connected. We have to fight in Iraq because we were attacked on 9/11.

It's CRAZY we went into Iraq after being attacked on 9/11. Al Qaeda is an ideology, it's hideous and dangerous to be sure, but most of the bombers were from Saudi Arabia. Not one single one from Iraq.

Most Islamic fundamentalists are RELIGIOUS fanatics who want to kill non-Islamists and force their religious beliefs on the rest of the world. Saddam was NOT religious, he was extremely secular, and he and Al Qaeda were suspicious of and hostile to one another. There wasn't a connection there. As Jon Stewart said last night, our invading Iraq is like responding to the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor by attacking China. Or maybe Chinatown.

Many, many Americans were successfully hoodwinked by the administration into thinking Iraq was behind 9/11 attacks. Cheney more or less said so; Bush did sometimes. They also used the word "terrorists" and Saddam in the same sentence over and over and over. Thus linking by clear implication.

Pat Tillman's family have seen through the lies, and they're having to deal with their loss. I'm afraid the people who have lost loved ones in Iraq will have to face that they were sold a bill of goods by the administration as to what the war was for. I'm sorry, but we can't just stay in the war forever and ever out of POLITENESS to the people who are grieving their losses.

A house built on sand cannot stand.

This war was built on the sand of lies and misperceptions and bad judgment. Staying in it on and on and on is not a sensible option. More Americans will be killed, and victory is impossible.

The AA prayer says "God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

It's a brilliant prayer, and goes to the heart of difficult choices in life.
Those who want to withdraw (not in one day, of course) are of the mind to accept that the war was mistake and that we can't solve the centuries' old problems among the factions in Iraq.

Those who want to stay think they have the courage to change things, but the "wisdom to know the difference" is the key: in my view, they have zero ability to know the difference, they are stuck and stubborn, and they want to prove their wrong choice was right. Bush is among the most stubborn people I have ever seen in my life.

Just like you can't stay in a hopeless marriage where the two parties are truly incompatible and expect it'll work out, so, too, you can't invade a country, discover there's a civil war brewing underneath and no history of or understanding of democracy among the people, and decide: oh well, let me stay and mediate this group of people who want to kill each other.

Plus the pro-war reading of the war is wrong at its core: we are CREATING MORE TERRORISTS every extra day we stay in Iraq. We are not fighting back for 9/11... that was a trick and a lie.

The ads, by the way, say that victory in Iraq is the only acceptable option.
What the f--- is victory in Iraq? We pour in hundreds of thousands of soldiers to physically seek out and kill every single insurgent there? (With new ones created every day.) And then we say to the Sunnis and Shiites, even though you have centuries of hatred between you and even though you have bloodlust revenge in your hearts based on those centuries, we want you to "bury the hatchet" and live in peace together. Uh huh. And then Dr. Phil comes in and spends a few weekends with them, and then all will be fine and we can finally come home.

That victory isn't possible. Wisdom to know the difference.

Freedom's Watch. Another organization from the right that sells the lie that Iraq and 9/11 were connected. And that tries to sell the lie that fighting in Iraq is making us safer.

Wow, it's a disturbing time in America. Having lived through the Vietnam mess, I can't believe in my lifetime I'm seeing it again, only worse.

Chris Durang: Yikes, the Freedom Watch Ads - Politics on The Huffington Post

The videos are on this link:
Freedoms Watch

 

[Homer]

old news i think we are well past that.

 

[TripSevens]

old news i think we are well past that.

Why don't you tell that to the families of the 71 soldiers that have died so far this month.

Think they're past it?

 

[Homer]

who the hell are you to even say that to me i've got family in the military my son reinlisted just 2 months after 911 so you my friend can kiss my ass.

 

[TripSevens]

who the hell are you to even say that to me i've got family in the military my son reinlisted just 2 months after 911 so you my friend can kiss my ass.

Sorry, no one told me I was required to memorize your life story before I dared to respond.


Luckily, I can reply to your ridiculous posts however I choose- unless admin here tell me different.

 

[Homer]

go have another beer, oh and maybe you should wait more then a week you start running your mouth about people you don't even have a clue about.

 

[JuJu]

Oh, I think ALL of the United Sates, not to mention other countries OWN this war, Homer. Here in America, we all get to speak, even those who are lackin' in civlity 'n respectfulness.

 

[TripSevens]

old news i think we are well past that.

:cool

go have another beer, oh and maybe you should wait more then a week you start running your mouth about people you don't even have a clue about.

You, sir, are the one without a clue. You also fly off the handle with very little provocation.

:waving:

 

[Homer]

i wasn't putting you down i was just it was old news nothing new, i don't like us being there but theirs nothing i can do about it and beating a dead horse isn't going to help, believe me i support the troops , but this thread had nothing to do with what he said to me, do you really think the familys that have had to deal with the death of a soldier/son want to be told that their son died for nothing i don't think so.ps this was a reply to JuJu.

 

[Homer]

:cool




You, sir, are the one without a clue. You also fly off the handle with very little provocation.

:waving:

what a waste , may be if you like i said had a clue , is that all you do is keep a running body count what a big help you are.

 

[robdawg1]

i wasn't putting you down i was just it was old news nothing new, i don't like us being there but theirs nothing i can do about it and beating a dead horse isn't going to help, believe me i support the troops

Homer,
If you think there is nothing you can do about you join the majority of americans and that is why we are still there....
we CAN do something about it, we can speak out and vote and write our legislators and force them to represent US!!!
if you resign control to someone else you deem to live in tyranny
:clap:clap:clap

 

[Homer]

Homer,
If you think there is nothing you can do about you join the majority of americans and that is why we are still there....
we CAN do something about it, we can speak out and vote and write our legislators and force them to represent US!!!
if you resign control to someone else you deem to live in tyranny
:clap:clap:clap

i said i don't like us being there i didn't say i was against what they are fighting for although i'd like to see Iraq take over and do alot more of the fighting , their are some things i would do different if i were in charge for one thing Iran wouldn't be involved as much as i think they are..

 

[JuJu]

Help IVAW end the war: Hold a Bring Them Home House Party

This summer, IVAW members have toured bases from Georgia to New York hosting BBQs for veterans and active duty service members to spread the word about the organization and its work to bring the troops home now. Now it's your turn. IVAW has developed a strategy to end this war, and we need your help to make it happen. By holding a Bring Them Home House Party you can help IVAW continue our important work to end the war now. Click here to find out more

Iraq Veterans Against the War

Support the Troops

 

[TripSevens]

Homer,
If you think there is nothing you can do about you join the majority of americans and that is why we are still there....
we CAN do something about it, we can speak out and vote and write our legislators and force them to represent US!!!
if you resign control to someone else you deem to live in tyranny
:clap:clap:clap

You want them to represent us by taking over a sovereign nation and setting up a longterm, illegal occupation?

 

[TripSevens]

what a waste , may be if you like i said had a clue , is that all you do is keep a running body count what a big help you are.

What are you doing to help?


It seems to me that you want to repress the truth because it is "old news" and not worth talking about. Unfortunately, we are still seeing the ramifications of those lies and will continue to for some time.

 

[JuJu]

You want them to represent us by taking over a sovereign nation and setting up a longterm, illegal occupation?

Hey, terrorism is alive 'n well as long as the US stays there.

 

[Homer]

lol you people crack me up yep it all stops when/if we leave , and then you woke up.

 

[robdawg1]

You want them to represent us by taking over a sovereign nation and setting up a longterm, illegal occupation?

you misunderstand me trip sevens...
i want them to represent us by getting out of a war they lied about to get in in the first place..
i want them to represent us when we say we have had enough and we want to "cut our losses" and pull out...
I want them to represent us when we say that no more of our men and women, brothers and sisters, husbands and wives, sons and daughters need die for oil and a peace that we are disturbing rather than preserving...
and in order for them to get that message we need not sit by and sigh and say "there is nothing i can do about it" and let it continue on!!

 

[robdawg1]

i said i don't like us being there i didn't say i was against what they are fighting for although i'd like to see Iraq take over and do alot more of the fighting , their are some things i would do different if i were in charge for one thing Iran wouldn't be involved as much as i think they are..

what are we fighting for in IRAQ? i mean i remember why we are in afghanistan (you remember the taliban and osama bin laden? the real culprits of 9-11) but Iraq escapes me...
is it the weapons they didnt have, or the ties to al queda that didnt exist? or was it to remove a dictator that was a "threat" to us with no long range weapon capability. you know the one we put in power?
no I remember it was the oil that was supposed to pay for the war but didnt!
come on!
and how would you stop Iran from getting involved save not going in there in the first place?

 

[Homer]

you all say it was all lies i say we would have found alot more if they hadn't had all the time they needed to get rid/hide everything , as for Iran stop them from getting into Iraq and you'll see a big change over there , i'd do everything i could to make sure Iran and Syria could not get a fly into Iraq , and i'm sorry to have to say that it may come to war with Iran thats why you wont see us leave any time soon , shit Iran and Syria both don't want us to leave they love it just as it is now fighting in Iraq and not in their countrys , but if the shit hits the fan Isreal will take out Syria and we will take out Iran , lets just hope the religious nuts in Iran are not in charge much longer .