Republicans vs Democrats under Obama

[BadBoy@TheWheel]

That would be a little less than accurate. In 2002 Bush attempted to introduce legislation to curtail FannieMae because of what the Administration called risky loans starting to dominate their loan portfolio. Barney Frank had a hissy fit done only the way Barney can do and got the bill killed in the House.

Ironically, Frank has been the one squeaking the loudest about how the Bush White House sat back and did nothing:eek

We have gone from one extreme to the next, now, Congress is going to march to the drum because it's like the far left operates on a radio frequency that only they can hear...

They simply cannot resist KHOBAMA-FM

 

[Minor Axis]

That would be a little less than accurate. In 2002 Bush attempted to introduce legislation to curtail FannieMae because of what the Administration called risky loans starting to dominate their loan portfolio. Barney Frank had a hissy fit done only the way Barney can do and got the bill killed in the House.

When did FannieMae start delving in sub-prime lending?

Yeah, there are some government related problems to go along with the Corporate mismanagement and greed. Read this at Newsweek: There Is More To Fear Than Fear.

This current crisis has resulted in a deep erosion of American power that we have not fully understood. Even in the depths of the Iraq War, when much of the globe was enraged by George W. Bush's unilateralism, people everywhere believed that the United States had the world's most advanced economy and that its capital markets in particular were the most sophisticated and developed. American officials, businessmen and economists lectured far and wide on the need to copy the American system. That system is now seen across the world as a sham, a casino game in which highly paid participants mismanaged risk and highly respected regulators cheered them on. I have traveled to Europe, Asia and the Middle East in the past three months and am writing this from Canada. The attitudes of officials and businessmen range from shock to rage at what they see in the United States.

 

[Alien Allen]

The basics of our economic system is still sound.

Both parties did things that provided the opportunity for wall st. to act on greed.

There is no personal responsibility. Wall St. and bankers will not pay the price. Homeowners and those who were not greedy will.. Including now apparently paying to prop up mortgages that people had no business getting. We are just stalling the inevitable. We can provide a 5 year hand out to those people but they will just lose the homes at that time.

Utter madness. Meanwhile the auto industry which is one industry that needs a mere pittance to work its way thru its times that are not all their fault get hammered.

 

[Minor Axis]

The basics of our economic system is still sound.

Not a good line for getting elected President!

Both parties did things that provided the opportunity for wall st. to act on greed.

There is no personal responsibility. Wall St. and bankers will not pay the price. Homeowners and those who were not greedy will.. Including now apparently paying to prop up mortgages that people had no business getting. We are just stalling the inevitable. We can provide a 5 year hand out to those people but they will just lose the homes at that time.

I'd like to see legitimate mortgagees get help. My definition would not include those people flipping houses or who made speculative purchases. They took a bet and can own up to their bad decision. However that still leaves tens (hundreds?) of thousands of bad loans on the books which is poisoning the ability of the economy to recover if you believe what economists are saying. I'm leaning towards saving the economy if that can be done...

 

[Alien Allen]

When I say the basics are sound I mean the principles of which our economy is grounded in. We had some loose cannons that need to get spanked big time with some serious jail time. Sadly I doubt there will be much.

 

[Accountable]

Not a good line for getting elected President!

I'd like to see legitimate mortgagees get help. My definition would not include those people flipping houses or who made speculative purchases. They took a bet and can own up to their bad decision. However that still leaves tens (hundreds?) of thousands of bad loans on the books which is poisoning the ability of the economy to recover if you believe what economists are saying. I'm leaning towards saving the economy if that can be done...

Would it include those people who overextended themselves to buy their first home, thinking they could always refinance sometime in the future?

 

[Alien Allen]

When I bought the house I am living in I could have afforded and qualified for a loan to get a much more expensive home. This is going back 16 years ago. However in doing that I would have needed to rely on my always getting a commission check every month. I made the choice though to assume the commission checks would not always be there. Smart choice on my part as those commission checks disappeared about 5 years ago. Too bad these other idiots and the greedy banks did not use the same though process.

 

[Ryder]

Well I am a Republican and I voted for Obama but I agree with Minor.

 

[Peter Parka]

Well I am a Republican and I voted for Obama but I agree with Minor.

I thought you were too young to vote? Kudos though for your flexibility rather than sticking to one party whatever shit they come out with. :clap I personally see myself somewhere in the middle but not such a pussy I jump on whichever bandwagon is winning, just because, like the Liberals do (thats Liberals in the UK by the way who are somewhere between Conservatives and Labour) . I think that one party, whichever one it is, having power for too long turns out to be a bad thing. I've lived through Thatcher and Blair so that's my experience of it, anyway.

 

[Maulds]

Congress is going to march to the drum because it's like the far left operates on a radio frequency that only they can hear...

They simply cannot resist KHOBAMA-FM

Thus eliminating any need for the fairness doctrine :thumbup

 

[Minor Axis]

Would it include those people who overextended themselves to buy their first home, thinking they could always refinance sometime in the future?

That's a harder disqualifier because not everyone is an expert in house buying and you KNOW there were mortgage brokers, professionals dressed up in suit and ties, telling these newbs exactly that. "Don't worry, you'll be able to refinance when your rate ballons", except they probably could never legitimately qualify for a traditional fixed rate loan. So they were screwed and they believed the experts who told them "this is the deal of a lifetime!" while they (the experts) were thinking "and no matter what I'll have my dough and be long gone before the shit flies".

I like the idea of tieing mortgage brokers to their loans, pinning personal responsiblity on them if the loan, using a simple set of financial qualifiers is clearly a bad/high risk loan.

 

[Alien Allen]

That's a harder disqualifier because not everyone is an expert in house buying and you KNOW there were mortgage brokers, professionals dressed up in suit and ties, telling these newbs exactly that. "Don't worry, you'll be able to refinance when your rate ballons", except they probably could never legitimately qualify for a traditional fixed rate loan. So they were screwed and they believed the experts who told them "this is the deal of a lifetime!" while they (the experts) were thinking "and no matter what I'll have my dough and be long gone before the shit flies".

I like the idea of tieing mortgage brokers to their loans, pinning personal responsiblity on them if the loan, using a simple set of financial qualifiers is clearly a bad/high risk loan.

The concept is good on merit. They make a lot of money making those loans. The trick would be how to make them lose their commission they made down the road. I do not see that as being feasible. Need to go back to the way it was when I got the loan on my house in 1993. I had to show where my money came from. No way I could have been unqualified at that time. At least with a legit bank. I had a house I lived in already sold but hand not closed by the time I was ready to close on the new home. They would not give me a bridge loan. My father had some money to lend me but they would not accept that.

Given all the bull shit that happened with banking there are still scams out there. They have not closed the loopholes. People who are near retirement with a lot in their retirement plans with little equity in a house, a ton of credit card debt can declare bankruptcy. Then they retire and live off their retirement which is not subject to bankruptcy. People can declare the home they live in as being rented and buy another bigger and better home, then if they have no equity in the first home once they get a mortgage on the new one they give the first home back to the bank. I hear nothing addressing this.

 

[Minor Axis]

The concept is good on merit. They make a lot of money making those loans. The trick would be how to make them lose their commission they made down the road. I do not see that as being feasible. Need to go back to the way it was when I got the loan on my house in 1993. I had to show where my money came from. No way I could have been unqualified at that time. At least with a legit bank. I had a house I lived in already sold but hand not closed by the time I was ready to close on the new home. They would not give me a bridge loan. My father had some money to lend me but they would not accept that.

Given all the bull shit that happened with banking there are still scams out there. They have not closed the loopholes. People who are near retirement with a lot in their retirement plans with little equity in a house, a ton of credit card debt can declare bankruptcy. Then they retire and live off their retirement which is not subject to bankruptcy. People can declare the home they live in as being rented and buy another bigger and better home, then if they have no equity in the first home once they get a mortgage on the new one they give the first home back to the bank. I hear nothing addressing this.

Regarding the tieing of mortgage brokers to their loans it's a great idea except the devil (as usual) is in the details and how to facilitate that.

 

[groundpounder]

... I want my elected leaders to be responsible to the people they represent, not the party they're affiliated with.

you're so cute when you're naive


the problem is not the Democrats or the Republicans. It's the Democrats AND the Republicans and their respective partisan boolayshittay

 

[Alien Allen]

you're so cute when you're naive


the problem is not the Democrats or the Republicans. It's the Democrats AND the Republicans and their respective partisan boolayshittay

yup :nod:

 

[Minor Axis]

you're so cute when you're naive


the problem is not the Democrats or the Republicans. It's the Democrats AND the Republicans and their respective partisan boolayshittay

I need to remember that word boolayshittay boolayshittay. Ok, maybe I'll remember it. How do we avoid partisan boolayshittay? Not putting you on the spot, just throwing it out there.

 

[Alien Allen]

Minor if we take out the money from politics it would be a big start to getting people elected who are more interested in serving than dictating. Take away the gold plated retirement for one. Lock up DC except for 3 times a year when they would meet for 2 weeks. Keep em home where they actually see what the hell is going on in the real world. Cut their pay a third. With todays communication options there is no need for these clowns to be in DC all the time.

Make elections public financed so they are not having a hand out all the time. They can claim they are not bought and paid for but I do not buy that for a minute.

 

[Minor Axis]

Minor if we take out the money from politics it would be a big start to getting people elected who are more interested in serving than dictating. Take away the gold plated retirement for one. Make elections public financed so they are not having a hand out all the time. They can claim they are not bought and paid for but I do not buy that for a minute.

I agree with your sentiment. Are we becoming the modern day Roman Empire?

 

[groundpounder]

...How do we avoid partisan boolayshittay? Not putting you on the spot, just throwing it out there.

I wish I knew of a concrete way.

One theorhetical way to do away with partisan boolayshittay would be elect a third party president or an independent. That individual would have the mandate to appoint a bipartisan cabinet. I would LOVE to see conservative and liberals populate the senior staff of the Executive branch.

Another pie-in-the-sky ideal would be to have an über-idealistic president from either party shuck the system and appoint members from the opposing party. The problem with that ideal is that he would get ROASTED by his OWN party because of, you guessed it, partisan boolayshittay.

The third way would be to elect a woman other than Hillary. We've broken one cultural glass ceiling with President Obama - the country has moved forward. Obama could have appointed a bi-partisan cabinet because of the historic nature of his election. But he didn't. Clinton wouldn't do it in '12 because she is EXTREMELY partisan (and she's not alone). If there was a dark horse female candidate in the way that Obama started his campaign as an underdog but prevailed, then THAT election would have a historic brush to paint with and she, whoever she would be, could sieze that opportunity and have an epic cabinet.