People who give money to beggars face hefty fines in Indonesian city

[GraceAbounds]

People who give money to beggars face hefty fines in Indonesian city


(AP) - JAKARTA, Indonesia-People who give money to beggars in one Indonesian city could be slapped with a US$660 (€483) fine, while panhandlers themselves could face up to six weeks in jail under a proposed new law, an official said Friday.
The goal of the bill being circulated in Medan, the provincial capital of North Sumatra, is to clear the streets of beggars, some of whom have formed organized gangs to harass tourists and residents, said Nabari Ginting of the Social Services Department.

Nabari said a local survey showed the average person asking for handouts in Medan was bringing home the equivalent US6 (€4 a day), more than the average daily wage in the city. Many of the beggars worked for gang leaders, who deployed them to various points of Medan, he said.
"We'd rather people give money to orphanages or nursing homes," he said, putting the number of panhandlers in Indonesia's third largest city at around 11,000, many of them under the age of 12. "We want to clean up the image of our city."
Many in Indonesia, a sprawling archipelagic nation of 235 million people, are desperately poor, with half the population living on less than US$2 (€1.50) a day.
Begging is common in Indonesia, though not as prevalent as in some other Asian countries.
At least two other regions have passed ordinances preventing people from giving cash to panhandlers, who are often mothers sitting on sidewalks or children knocking on the windows of stopped cars.

People who give money to beggars face hefty fines in Indonesian city

 

[Maulds]

Interesting, in a way I agree with this.

 

[All Else Failed]

Wow, no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[Maulds]

If you are an enabler and give them a handout everyday they'll never be better than a beggar. If you make them take some responsibility and you encourage peole to donate instead to places like shelters then in the end I think you do more good. Lets not pretend no homeless person ever took money given to them and bought booze or crack or whatever else. I'm not saying they all do, but if you give to a shelter instead you know where the money goes. It makes sense.

 

[All Else Failed]

If you are an enabler and give them a handout everyday they'll never be better than a beggar. If you make them take some responsibility and you encourage peole to donate instead to places like shelters then in the end I think you do more good. Lets not pretend no homeless person ever took money given to them and bought booze or crack or whatever else. I'm not saying they all do, but if you give to a shelter instead you know where the money goes. It makes sense.

Well I still think that me giving money to them is a good gesture, perhaps they haven't eaten in days?

 

[Maulds]

Well I still think that me giving money to them is a good gesture, perhaps they haven't eaten in days?

Its a very good gesture I agree, I'm all for helping others. I'm most interested in what helps the most people in the long run. You've heard the old adage "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him how to fish he eats for life" I think it applies here. If someone is doing good enough begging why would they quit unless it wasnt an option?

 

[All Else Failed]

Its a very good gesture I agree, I'm all for helping others. I'm most interested in what helps the most people in the long run. You've heard the old adage "Give a man a fish he eats for a day, teach him how to fish he eats for life" I think it applies here. If someone is doing good enough begging why would they quit unless it wasnt an option?

I agree that donating to shelters is a good idea. I think more social programs for the homeless and those in poverty should be established.

 

[GraceAbounds]

I agree that donating to shelters is a good idea. I think more social programs for the homeless and those in poverty should be established.

I agree, but I believe they should have mandatory classes and things that do like Maulds said: "teach them how to fish".

 

[All Else Failed]

I agree, but I believe they should have mandatory classes and things that do like Maulds said: "teach them how to fish".

I think maybe working programs and small menials jobs would be best, so at least they are financially established.

 

[groundpounder]

Jesus Christ in the Second Coming is going to come back as a homeless man, just to see what's what and who's doing their part...

 

[dt3]

Jesus Christ in the Second Coming is going to come back as a homeless man, just to see what's what and who's doing their part...

And he's gonna be pissed at all the thread-diggin bitches :nod:

 

[groundpounder]

don't hate the player, hate the game....

 

[GraceAbounds]

Jesus Christ in the Second Coming is going to come back as a homeless man, just to see what's what and who's doing their part...

:clap

 

[Pudding Time]

Indonesia is one of the most fucked up countries in the world. Government is riddled with corruption, and the population is WAAAAAAY too high for the size of the country.

This just seems like the government trying to decrease the amount of desperate beggers in the populated areas. What they should do is fix the whole country instead of trying to push away the poor.

That country is long overdue for a revolution..

 

[HisHoliness]

I've seen news articles about people who even manage their open wounds to keep them fresh and grizzly for long periods to help with their begging. It's a lifestyle.

 

[groundpounder]

That's THEIR cross to bear. If they're being dishonest, they'll be dealt with accordingly in the everafter, IMO.

If I pass up a person in need because I'm a douchebag and say "FECK the homeless, they can get a job," I'll get mine when Haysoos says, "Why did you not feed me when I was hungry?"

 

[HisHoliness]

That's THEIR cross to bear. If they're being dishonest, they'll be dealt with accordingly in the everafter, IMO.

If I pass up a person in need because I'm a douchebag and say "FECK the homeless, they can get a job," I'll get mine when Haysoos says, "Why did you not feed me when I was hungry?"

Well. I'm already destined for hell fifty times over then. No sense in starting now.

 

[groundpounder]

There's always hope. The next one may be The One...

 

[ssl]

There are two sides to every story, if not more, depending on who is involved.

This story has many faces, and the issue that the government sees is that the beggars, on average are making more than the daily wage average, and do not want to see everyone becoming beggars to better themselves.

The issue with that, however, is that the government will be forced to do things that are not popular, if the people all become beggars to make a decent living. These programs will require financing, which means more taxes, except the beggars do not pay taxes, so it seems.

Thus, based on statistical data and forecast statistics, the government decided that the appropriate response picked.

This is how many governments operate. Human responses generally differ from government responses. If you see a beggar on the road, and instantly know they have not eaten, you feel a pang in your heart, and make a decision based on previous experiences and what you see before you. However the government sees the beggar as a lazy citizen, if they are even a citizen, and wants to help them to the point where they help the government. The government would benefit from the beggar working, because they then pay taxes.

Both responses are helpful; the government one is more effective in the long run, but the beggar also needs to eat today, so, it becomes a difficult issue altogether. If you help the beggar eat today, it is a handout to them; they will not bother working to get their own food money. But, if you have the beggar go to work, they will not have time to beg, but then again, they have to wait to get their first check to eat.

Confusing matter, solved by loaning a beggar about two weeks worth of average wages, and then have them working it off, however, the reparations must be made in such a way that does not slow the cash flow.

Or, there may be other solutions.

 

[HisHoliness]

There are two sides to every story, if not more, depending on who is involved.

This story has many faces, and the issue that the government sees is that the beggars, on average are making more than the daily wage average, and do not want to see everyone becoming beggars to better themselves.

The issue with that, however, is that the government will be forced to do things that are not popular, if the people all become beggars to make a decent living. These programs will require financing, which means more taxes, except the beggars do not pay taxes, so it seems.

Thus, based on statistical data and forecast statistics, the government decided that the appropriate response picked.

This is how many governments operate. Human responses generally differ from government responses. If you see a beggar on the road, and instantly know they have not eaten, you feel a pang in your heart, and make a decision based on previous experiences and what you see before you. However the government sees the beggar as a lazy citizen, if they are even a citizen, and wants to help them to the point where they help the government. The government would benefit from the beggar working, because they then pay taxes.

Both responses are helpful; the government one is more effective in the long run, but the beggar also needs to eat today, so, it becomes a difficult issue altogether. If you help the beggar eat today, it is a handout to them; they will not bother working to get their own food money. But, if you have the beggar go to work, they will not have time to beg, but then again, they have to wait to get their first check to eat.

Confusing matter, solved by loaning a beggar about two weeks worth of average wages, and then have them working it off, however, the reparations must be made in such a way that does not slow the cash flow.

Or, there may be other solutions.

But then why would the beggar borrow from you? He can just as easily borrow from the next guy and owe nothing.