Party loyalty damages the USA

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Accountable

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The latest is that the dems & repubs are thinking about mixing the seating for the State of the Union address, rather than sitting one party on one side and one on the other. This is the way it should always be, imo. I believe it was George Washington that warned against allowing party politics a foothold in the gov't, because it risks having a gov't official with more loyalty to the party than to the people he's supposed to be serving.
 
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Tim

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Actually it sound like a great idea. Keep your identities but work together.
 

edgray

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Party loyalty can hold everything back. Why not the best man for the job?

I always wondered about this looking at UK politics. Why don't the voters get to choose the cabinet, based on which man has the best ideas, perhaps the best experience etc, irrelevant of the party they're a member of?
 

Accountable

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Actually it sound like a great idea. Keep your identities but work together.
Not sure but I think they used to sit by state.

Party loyalty can hold everything back. Why not the best man for the job?

I always wondered about this looking at UK politics. Why don't the voters get to choose the cabinet, based on which man has the best ideas, perhaps the best experience etc, irrelevant of the party they're a member of?
I agree. Party politics is even stronger in British Parliament, isn't it?
 

BornReady

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I'd be in favor of doing away with political parties all together. Let every politician stand or fall on his or her own merits. It'd be more work for the voters. They could no longer go in the voting booth and vote the party line without knowing anything about the people they're voting for. But that seems like a good thing.
 

edgray

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Not sure but I think they used to sit by state.

I agree. Party politics is even stronger in British Parliament, isn't it?

Very much so. You're voting for a party essentially, there are 3 main choices, well, 2 really, and a bunch of other pointless ones.
 

Accountable

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I'd be in favor of doing away with political parties all together. Let every politician stand or fall on his or her own merits. It'd be more work for the voters. They could no longer go in the voting booth and vote the party line without knowing anything about the people they're voting for. But that seems like a good thing.
totally agree
:nod::nod:
 

Kyle B

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Party loyalty can hold everything back. Why not the best man for the job?

I always wondered about this looking at UK politics. Why don't the voters get to choose the cabinet, based on which man has the best ideas, perhaps the best experience etc, irrelevant of the party they're a member of?

I've always found that interesting. In the US, we definitely have party loyalty, but the UK government seems to be build AROUND the parties. If I'm correct, doesn't voting against your party (as an MP) in the UK government basically equal expulsion?
 
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MoonOwl

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Loyalty to multi-national corporations or foreign nations is what is ruining our country.

But sure, they can read The Constitution (some of it) and sit in mixed company to appear to want to work for We The People now, but proof is in the pudding. Or lack thereof.
 

Accountable

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Loyalty to multi-national corporations or foreign nations is what is ruining our country.

But sure, they can read The Constitution (some of it) and sit in mixed company to appear to want to work for We The People now, but proof is in the pudding. Or lack thereof.
Absolutely. Imagine if they had to sit according to their largest campaign contributors.
yahoo_sweating.gif
 

Minor Axis

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I'd be in favor of doing away with political parties all together. Let every politician stand or fall on his or her own merits. It'd be more work for the voters. They could no longer go in the voting booth and vote the party line without knowing anything about the people they're voting for. But that seems like a good thing.

Even if official political parties cold be disbanded, politician's would still group themselves into voting blocks based on ideals and they might even try to put a label on a group to achieve the same results.

As far as sitting together I found this:
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ding-bipartisan-seating-at-state-of-the-union
 

edgray

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I've always found that interesting. In the US, we definitely have party loyalty, but the UK government seems to be build AROUND the parties. If I'm correct, doesn't voting against your party (as an MP) in the UK government basically equal expulsion?

yes it is, very much so in fact. The main two are Labour (centre/centre-left) and the Conservatives (centre-right/right), with the third party of the Liberal Democrats (flip/flop) who currently share the majority with the Tories.

There are many other parties, some 4,000 odd the last time I looked, but they really matter not. I suppose the far right wing parties seem to have had a little support over recent years, but their xenophobia doesn't sit well for most of the country, so they will only ever be a marginal concern.

As for the votes, it wouldn't necessarily lead to an expulsion, and I believe it depends on the nature of the vote at hand. If it was very important, such as the Iraq war, then yes, them MPs would have been threatened with a 3 whip attendance demand. Normally, rather than voting in opposition, MPs would often simply not attend the vote. However, in the case of a 2 or 3 line whip, non-attendance at the vote could lead to expulsion from the party.

The whip, in a sense, is the MPs connection to the party. Withdrawing the whip is the biggest punishment one could receive as it basically leaves you, as an MP, without any say in Parliamentary matters and your party not giving a damn about your opinion.

The system is archaic and needs to be removed. It basically stops any MP from being rebellious - much like most political systems: they're simply their to make sure the politicians serve the system, rather than the electorate.
 

Accountable

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Even if official political parties cold be disbanded, politician's would still group themselves into voting blocks based on ideals and they might even try to put a label on a group to achieve the same results.
That's fine, but at least there's a chance it will be blocs unique to the individual instead of toeing the party line.
 

Accountable

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its amazing after how many years
they just thought of this
we are living in genius times my friends
Oh it'll go back to status quo right after Obama's speech. They see it as a publicity stunt to send a message. They're fucking oblivious to the glaring message they send by segregating themselves by party.
 

retro

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Doesn't particularly matter though... the Dems will give Obama a standing ovation every three sentences, and the GOP will just sit there. They'll just be interspersed together instead of on opposite sides.
 
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