Objective reality?

[Carthage]

Do you believe in the concept of objective reality, and do you believe that that applies to all things, including ethics?
Personally - yes.

 

[MMMMatilde]

What do you mean by this?

 

[All Else Failed]

Well, there is the way the world IS. Then, there are our relative perceptions to it.


Morals are relative as well with most people. I tend to think that the world isn't black and white, and things should be taken case by case.





Carthage, is that Nietzsche in your avatar?

 

[MMMMatilde]

So an objective reality is how you see the world personally?

 

[All Else Failed]

Objective reality suggests that things are the way they are no matter what, or how we perceive them to be. They don't change due to our perception. A rock is a rock.

I believe this to be true, but only when it comes to the physical world. Morals/ethics and so on enter into a world of subjectivity and relativity with most people.

 

[Dana]

Well, there is the way the world IS. Then, there are our relative perceptions to it.


Morals are relative as well with most people. I tend to think that the world isn't black and white, and things should be taken case by case.

I agree with you

 

[MMMMatilde]

Ohh..

Okay, well I can give an oppinion now lol
Everything can be seen differently.. SO as you said, a rock is a rock.. But to some people it could be so much more... This rock could be a tool to grind things it could be a weapon to throw at people..

With emotion you can never narrow it down to one thing in the end.. We all feel things differently to each other.. People experience things in different ways.. Some people cry over a loss of someone, some people celebrate.. There are names for certain types of emotions like being happy or sad but everyone feels just that slight bit different to someone else..

One thing can be so different for another person whether it be physically or mentally..

 

[All Else Failed]

Ohh..

Okay, well I can give an oppinion now lol
Everything can be seen differently.. SO as you said, a rock is a rock.. But to some people it could be so much more... This rock could be a tool to grind things it could be a weapon to throw at people..

With emotion you can never narrow it down to one thing in the end.. We all feel things differently to each other.. People experience things in different ways.. Some people cry over a loss of someone, some people celebrate.. There are names for certain types of emotions like being happy or sad but everyone feels just that slight bit different to someone else..

One thing can be so different for another person whether it be physically or mentally..

Well, that doesn't change the fact that it is a rock. You're just thinking of different uses for a rock.

 

[MMMMatilde]

Well, that doesn't change the fact that it is a rock. You're just thinking of different uses for a rock.

That's fair enough..

But this rock can be transformed and made into a untensil that no longer looks like a rock.. Does this still make it a rock even though it has obtained the shape of a hammer?

 

[All Else Failed]

it would be a hammer made of stone. I guess things can obtain new identities if changed, but the individual materials still save their original identities.

 

[MMMMatilde]

Their original identity has been changed, you can't change it back to a solid rock once you've carved it into this hammer

 

[All Else Failed]

Their original identity has been changed, you can't change it back to a solid rock once you've carved it into this hammer

No see the individual materials still have their original identity. its not like the head of the hammer ceases to be a rock just because its shaped differently. Overall though, it will be identified as a hammer, and not just a rock.

 

[BreakfastSurreal]

Well, there is the way the world IS. Then, there are our relative perceptions to it.


Morals are relative as well with most people. I tend to think that the world isn't black and white, and things should be taken case by case.

i actually agree with you AEF.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Do you believe in the concept of objective reality, and do you believe that that applies to all things, including ethics?
Personally - yes.

Yes as well.

 

[All Else Failed]

Anyone who says that morals are objective are tricking themselves. Just think of the times you applied your morals and ethics to one thing you thought you could objectively apply them too, and then think of the instances you didn't.

 

[Peter Parka]

Anyone who says that morals are objective are tricking themselves. Just think of the times you applied your morals and ethics to one thing you thought you could objectively apply them too, and then think of the instances you didn't.

Agreed! Lying is wrong in a lot of situations, for instance, but if my wife asks "Does my bum look big in this?" lying is sometimes the way to go.

 

[GraceAbounds]

Anyone who says that morals are objective are tricking themselves. Just think of the times you applied your morals and ethics to one thing you thought you could objectively apply them too, and then think of the instances you didn't.

Disagree.

Hierarchy of morals.

Without getting into a long drawn out discussion here is an example.

Example:
Protection of human life is a higher priority than lying for example.

Not all morals are created equal.

 

[All Else Failed]

Disagree.

Hierarchy of morals.

Without getting into a long drawn out discussion here is an example.

Example:
Protection of human life is a higher priority than lying for example.

Not all morals are created equal.

That doesn't address my point. Yes, there is a hierarchy of morals, but they aren't applied objectively all the time by people.

 

[GraceAbounds]

That doesn't address my point. Yes, there is a hierarchy of morals, but they aren't applied objectively all the time by people.

I did address your point.

There is an objective reality whether people see it or not and regardless of what they do.

Subjective reality = relativism.

 

[All Else Failed]

I did address your point.

There is an objective reality whether people see it or not and regardless of what they do.

Subjective reality = relativism.

There is an objective physical reality, but morals and ethics are not all uniform and are usually subjective.


I do think, however, that we should agree upon a set of social ethics as human beings.


We're all relativists, it just depends on the situation.