Nuclear proliferation and North Korea

[Fox Mulder]

wake up on the dark side today Bob?

so you think it was destiny that it had to be used?

kind of cynical is that not?

Yoda--what the fuck did you do with Wacor??? :24:

 

[Zorak]

Wouldn't matter because Stalin would just ignore me

 

[siasl]

wake up on the dark side today Bob?

so you think it was destiny that it had to be used?

kind of cynical is that not?

you make it sound like we did it for kicks just to test it out. was that your intent?

me thinks rocks get thrown to fight back. the weapon was ours and we used it after some soul searching. simple as that. IMO

Don't forget we did give them dire warnings.

destiny?....not at all, bill

the "wow, cool" thing points to the gleam we get (got) in our eye when (some of us) realized that a bow and arrow isn't just effective at killing food.

choices you know....big brained -way prone to rationalizing them -choices

just the eternal hippie here today :ninja <<<<....ok..ninja hippie

 

[Fox Mulder]

Wouldn't matter because Stalin would just ignore me

True--but I think you can see that the decision is not so easy. Yes--all of us (or most of us) would rather have peace and no loss of lives because we can all associate with being the innocent person killed or maimed during the war. But we sometimes are dealing with irrational people that will never "negotiate", never "surrender" and never stop the violence and killing to achieve their end result. In those situations, there is only one answer--the use of force--no nuclear, but the use of force nonetheless.

Let me ask you -- are you comfortable with North Korea having nuclear weapons? If not, what's the answer (assuming negotiation doesn't work).

 

[Alien Allen]

destiny?....not at all, bill

the "wow, cool" thing points to the gleam we get (got) in our eye when (some of us) realized that a bow and arrow isn't just effective at killing food.

choices you know....big brained -way prone to rationalizing them -choices

just the eternal hippie here today :ninja <<<<....ok..ninja hippie

hippies :yuk


:24:

 

[Strauss]

I wasn't suggesting a negotiation to surrender, of course I understand all about the Japanese culture of the time, kamikaze being the prime example of this culture.
But negotiations to ceasefires, to peace.

Actually, there were several attempts to end the war through back channel requests with the Japanese. They never went anywhere because the Japanese leaders refused unconditional surrender. A recent documentary showed training films produced for use in training civilians on how to hide and attack American soldiers during an invasion. The documentary also showed the mass production of swords and knives given to the civilian population to defend the homeland. It would have been a very costly invasion on both sides with many more civilian deaths than those from the two A-bombs.

yeah
it's pretty well known that nuclear weapons were gonna be used by SOMEBODY there at the end of ww2...it wasn't just us rushing to develop them

it's a long way from throwing a rock....but
we humans are twisted that way....i doubt if the first rock ever thrown was thrown in desperation, outrage, or frustration at another human....

we just figured...'wow, cool"

definately twisted that way.

No, had Japan surrendered no bombs would have been used, Germany was already a done deal.

I suspect the first rock was thrown at a saber-tooth tiger or something of that nature.

 

[Zorak]

True--but I think you can see that the decision is not so easy. Yes--all of us (or most of us) would rather have peace and no loss of lives because we can all associate with being the innocent person killed or maimed during the war. But we sometimes are dealing with irrational people that will never "negotiate", never "surrender" and never stop the violence and killing to achieve their end result. In those situations, there is only one answer--the use of force--no nuclear, but the use of force nonetheless.

Let me ask you -- are you comfortable with North Korea having nuclear weapons? If not, what's the answer (assuming negotiation doesn't work).

I'm not comfortable with North Korea having weapons on several levels.

Firstly, there's the fact, as you probably guessed, I'm not a support of nuclear arms at all.
Secondly, I am only human. And as such am subject to that most selfish of emotions: fear.

Not that I'm saying I live in fear of a North Korea attack, I don't.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I suspect the first rock was thrown at a saber-tooth tiger or something of that nature.

So you saw 10,000 BC--big fucking deal!

 

[Alien Allen]

So you saw 10,000 BC--big fucking deal!

:24::24::24::24::24:

 

[siasl]

No, had Japan surrendered no bombs would have been used, Germany was already a done deal.

i can't believe you actually missed my point, gb
our big ol brains have honed the predatory nature that is somehow dulled in most omniovres.....seems, tho, the only thing worth "hunting" is ourselves.

 

[Strauss]

.
Secondly, I am only human. And as such am subject to that most selfish of emotions: fear.

Gee, I always thought that was fucking your brother's wife.
:24:

 

[siasl]

So you saw 10,000 BC--big fucking deal!

yet to see that...want to, tho...you've mentioned it at least twice at OTZ....musta liked it, huh?

 

[Strauss]

i can't believe you actually missed my point, gb
our big ol brains have honed the predatory nature that is somehow dulled in most omniovres.....seems, tho, the only thing worth "hunting" is ourselves.

But that wouldn't lead to the assertion that we going to use it no matter what.

Based upon your cynical view of mankind we shouldn't exist today.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm not comfortable with North Korea having weapons on several levels.

Firstly, there's the fact, as you probably guessed, I'm not a support of nuclear arms at all.
Secondly, I am only human. And as such am subject to that most selfish of emotions: fear.

Not that I'm saying I live in fear of a North Korea attack, I don't.

Therein lies the point of having to crush Japan. Obviously, we had nook-u-lar :24: weapons--we knew Germany had been trying--obviously you'd have to be an idiot not to think Japan was going to come up with them as well. So no way you could negotiate peace with Japan--you needed unconditional surrender to stop those in charge because one thing is for sure--if EITHER Germany or Japan had developed a weapon, there is absolutely no question they would have used it.

So--you are not a moron--I hope! You realize that someone has to have nuclear weapons to deter the use of them by other countries. If North Korea develops the weapons and no one else had one, what do you think they would do?

Now in a perfect world, no one has them--but when you can prove to me that no one else in the world will ever have the capability of developing them, then no way in hell would I agree to US disarmament of nuclear weapons. In fact, you'd have to be stark raving mad to agree, which I realize many liberals suffer from.

 

[Strauss]

So you saw 10,000 BC--big fucking deal!

Am I to take it that this is a movie?

 

[Fox Mulder]

yet to see that...want to, tho...you've mentioned it at least twice at OTZ....musta liked it, huh?

I liked it but not among my favorite movies. Definitely one of the best of the group in the last year or so--which has been a dismal year for movies--the two that were so highly touted (There will be Blood and No Country for Old Men) I did not care for at all--typical liberal Hollywood depressing as shit movies. I don't want to be depressed when I watch a movie--I can find plenty of things in real life to be depressed about.

 

[siasl]

Based upon your cynical view of mankind we shouldn't exist today.

how can you assume that....
it's obvious why we've survived....the sex is great! :ninja

 

[Fox Mulder]

Am I to take it that this is a movie?

Yes--did you think it was a documentary, Mr. Moore?


:24::24::24:

 

[Fox Mulder]

But that wouldn't lead to the assertion that we going to use it no matter what.

Based upon your cynical view of mankind we shouldn't exist today.

I can think of a group of a certain political persuation that shouldn't exist! :24:

 

[Strauss]

I liked it but not among my favorite movies. Definitely one of the best of the group in the last year or so--which has been a dismal year for movies--the two that were so highly touted (There will be Blood and No Country for Old Men) I did not care for at all--typical liberal Hollywood depressing as shit movies. I don't want to be depressed when I watch a movie--I can find plenty of things in real life to be depressed about.

There Will Be Blood has got to be one of the worse movies of the decade. I see one movie and it was that tripe. I should have known when all the liberal() movie critics RAVED about it. My wife and I looked at each half way through and just laughed. I first I thought that maybe it was just me but when the lights went up a guy a few rows in front of me said "Well that was a wasted ten bucks" followed by another guy stating "What a piece of crap that was."