No love or desire in Eden without the knowledge of good and evil.

[Greatest I am]

No love or desire in Eden without the knowledge of good and evil.

http://being.publicradio.org/programs/2011/genesis-of-desire/video-zornberg_interview.shtml

Love that is returned is true and good love.
Love, like faith, if not expressed in works and deeds, is dead.

Love that is not returned we do not call evil but it is certainly not as good as love that is returned and shared. Let me call it evil then as compared to good. It misses the mark.

Love then is subject to the qualifiers of good and evil and without any knowledge of good and evil, love cannot exist.

An example of this lack of emotion is shown in this clip.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=the+time+machine&mid=A09177855E7FF56AF1D1A09177855E7FF56AF1D1&FORM=LKVR38#

I see life without the knowledge of good and evil, a moral sense in other words, as mankind just being like any other animal on this earth.

Is it possible that the myth of Eden was initially invented to indicate the birth of mankind’s emotional awakening to love, hate, and all of our other emotions?

God is spirit.
Is it possible that without eating of the tree of knowledge, developing a moral sense and the emotions that drive it, becoming spiritual the way God is, as confirmed by God himself who said that mankind had become as Gods, A & E would have just remained as blissfully dumb as other animals?

Did they and we have to eat of it to become fully human?

Would any of us be silly enough to NOT have done exactly what A & E did and reject this great accomplishment and gift for mankind?

Would you reject the ability to love?

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

True love is given when you have choice so it existed before A & E ate the fruit. After they ate they had fear and shame and don't forget death.

 

[Greatest I am]

True love is given when you have choice so it existed before A & E ate the fruit

True love is a shared thing and cannot be given. Deeds and works are its expression.

. After they ate they had fear

Nowhere in scripture is this indicated till after God returns.

and shame

Again, not till after God approached. They did not know shame as they were man and wife.

and don't forget death.

They did not know death until God denied them the tree of life.

In today's standards, any parent, or even any other person who denied and or prevented someone from reaching what would save their lives, would be charged with murder.

They did not just die. They were murdered by God.

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

Re: No love or desire in Eden without the knowledge of good and evil.

Another silly premise that will go unproven but is good for laughs because it is so ridiculous.

True love is a shared thing and cannot be given. Deeds and works are its expression.

Really? and how did yoy arrive at this conclusion?

Nowhere in scripture is this indicated till after God returns.

Now you turn to scripture when it appears convenient for you but still A & E didn't know shame and fear until after they made their choice. You want to blame God for this but their shame and fear is a result of their choice.

Again, not till after God approached. They did not know shame as they were man and wife.

They did not know shame because they had no reason to feel shame until they realized they made the wrong choice.

They did not know death until God denied them the tree of life.

They knew beforehand what would happen if they made the wrong choice but made it anyway. Their death is a result of their own stupidity.

In today's standards, any parent, or even any other person who denied and or prevented someone from reaching what would save their lives, would be charged with murder.

And by today's standards no other person is held accountable when someone commits suicide. This is what A & E did.

They did not just die. They were murdered by God.

Regards
DL

They weren't murdered by God. They committed suicide.

 

[Tim]

Does that mean I would be a good parent if I put bare electric wires in my kids room and told them that if they touch them, they will surely die?

I mean they have free will, right?

 

[doombug]

Does that mean I would be a good parent if I put bare electric wires in my kids room and told them that if they touch them, they will surely die?

I mean they have free will, right?

Are your kids adults with full understanding of consequences? Are your parents still responsible for every choice you make even if they warn you of consequences?

 

[Minor Axis]

True love is given when you have choice so it existed before A & E ate the fruit. After they ate they had fear and shame and don't forget death.

How do you imagine humans would be without knowledge of good and bad? Our lives only have meaning if we have choice and the knowledge to make the choice. And apparently Eve all ready had the capability within her to be bad when she disregarded God's command.

I like this description of the non-nonsensical point of this story:

Before eating the forbidden fruit, Adam and Eve either knew that disobeying God was evil or they didn’t. If they didn’t, then they can’t be blamed for disobeying him. If they did, then they already possessed the knowledge that God had forbidden. Either way, God could not justly banish them from Eden.

This is the worst story of the Bible. If you want a prime example of ancient man grasping for divine answers, this would be it. There is nothing to be learned from it. Knowledge of good and bad is obtained by eating a fruit? Ok so it's an analogy or a metaphor. Hmm, what parallel could there be to our lives? What lesson is learned from this story?

Other issues: If God is so powerful, an entity that can make up it's own rules, why would it need Adam's rib to create Eve? The concept that humans are shamed by their nakedness? What about those tribes that used to run around in the buff? The point is that there is a purpose to wearing clothes if you are in an environment that demands it. Most likely the issue was survival, not being modest or shamed, although these days many, including me would be shamed to show my body in public. Thank goodness for clothes... Most significant is that science has shown through DNA that we did not start clean as Adam and Eve, that the human race evolved from life forms before it, bringing down the entire premise of A&E as anything remotely factual. And even as a metaphor, I see no meaningful lesson to be learned or inspired by. The message is "obey God or else." Oki dokey.

See Bible Knowledge.com for the religious explanation of Adam and Eve.

 

[Greatest I am]

Another silly premise that will go unproven but is good for laughs because it is so ridiculous.

If so then it should be easy to refute yet you do not even attempt to.
Chastisement without correction is just cruelty.
Do you spank your children without telling them why?

You hide your own impotence behind your laughter.

Really? and how did yoy arrive at this conclusion?

Thought. Try it.
How do you express your love?

Now you turn to scripture when it appears convenient for you but still A & E didn't know shame and fear until after they made their choice. You want to blame God for this but their shame and fear is a result of their choice.

Of course. Only then did they know they had emotions which is the root of love, shame and all other emotions.

They did not know shame because they had no reason to feel shame until they realized they made the wrong choice.

No. They knew that it was not proper to be naked around strangers or others.

They knew beforehand what would happen if they made the wrong choice but made it anyway. Their death is a result of their own stupidity.

Wow. They knew that God would murder them by denying them what wold save them? Ok.

Stupid?
Why would God create them stupid?

And by today's standards no other person is held accountable when someone commits suicide. This is what A & E did.

They made the tree of life inaccessible did they?

They weren't murdered by God. They committed suicide.

Why did they live for so many years if they wanted to die?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

Are your kids adults with full understanding of consequences? Are your parents still responsible for every choice you make even if they warn you of consequences?

At no time is God shown as giving A & E full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
In fact, the talking snake gave them more information than God did.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

Regards
DL

 

[Minor Axis]

At no time is God shown as giving A & E full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
In fact, the talking snake gave them more information than God did.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

Regards
DL

If God's purpose was to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, then it would be counter productive to start explaining what the tree of life offers. Consequently, all he said was "don't" without an explanation and or an explanation of consequences. Which is the true lesson of the Bible- Conform to our doctrine, and don't bother asking questions...

 

[Greatest I am]

If God's purpose was to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, then it would be counter productive to start explaining what the tree of life offers. Consequently, all he said was "don't" without an explanation and or an explanation of consequences. Which is the true lesson of the Bible- Conform to our doctrine, and don't bother asking questions...

+ 1

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

At no time is God shown as giving A & E full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
In fact, the talking snake gave them more information than God did.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

Regards
DL

But you are wrong. The scriptures tell how God told Adam not to eat of the fruit and what would happen if he did. Eve repeated the same in her conversation with Satan which proves she had full understanding of the instructions and consequences. Why do you make such false statements?

 

[doombug]

How do you imagine humans would be without knowledge of good and bad? Our lives only have meaning if we have choice and the knowledge to make the choice. And apparently Eve all ready had the capability within her to be bad when she disregarded God's command.

If you read Genesis you can see the things A & E lost from making a bad choice and getting themselves thrown out of Eden.

I disagree. There are plenty of bad things I have no knowledge of and I know I don't want the knowledge of. For example, I have never ran over a child in my car. That is not the kind of knowledge I want. There are plenty of other bad things I don't want firsthand knowledge of. I don't know what it feels like to be addicted to crack and I'm not planning on making the choice to find out.

What Adam and Eve had was a choice. What we humans have is choice and free will. Like I stated before there is some knowledge I simply don't want. So having knowledge isn't all it is cracked up to be.

This is the worst story of the Bible. If you want a prime example of ancient man grasping for divine answers, this would be it. There is nothing to be learned from it. Knowledge of good and bad is obtained by eating a fruit? Ok so it's an analogy or a metaphor. Hmm, what parallel could there be to our lives? What lesson is learned from this story?

What lessons can be learned? Well, having firsthand knowledge of something isn't all it is cracked up to be. Some "knowledge" is best left unknown if you have to "taste" it to know of it.

Other issues: If God is so powerful, an entity that can make up it's own rules, why would it need Adam's rib to create Eve?

Adam was made of dust so it seems humans aren't made from thin air. Same still stands today.

The concept that humans are shamed by their nakedness? What about those tribes that used to run around in the buff? The point is that there is a purpose to wearing clothes if you are in an environment that demands it. Most likely the issue was survival, not being modest or shamed, although these days many, including me would be shamed to show my body in public. Thank goodness for clothes...

So al humans in hot climates run around naked? Not true. Many humans wear clothes in places where clothes are not necessary.

Most significant is that science has shown through DNA that we did not start clean as Adam and Eve, that the human race evolved from life forms before it, bringing down the entire premise of A&E as anything remotely factual. And even as a metaphor, I see no meaningful lesson to be learned or inspired by. The message is "obey God or else." Oki dokey.

The last I heard there is still alot that is unknown about evolution. It seems once one theory takes hold something else pops up to disprove it.

 

[Tuffdisc]

If God's purpose was to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, then it would be counter productive to start explaining what the tree of life offers. Consequently, all he said was "don't" without an explanation and or an explanation of consequences. Which is the true lesson of the Bible- Conform to our doctrine, and don't bother asking questions...

It was not to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, it was to keep us from destroying ourselves which we are all inevitably doing right up to this day

 

[Greatest I am]

But you are wrong. The scriptures tell how God told Adam not to eat of the fruit and what would happen if he did. Eve repeated the same in her conversation with Satan which proves she had full understanding of the instructions and consequences. Why do you make such false statements?

At no time is God shown as giving A & E full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
In fact, the talking snake gave them more information than God did.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

You say I do not back up my statements. Back up yours.

Regards
DL

 

[doombug]

At no time is God shown as giving A & E full understanding of the consequences of their actions.
In fact, the talking snake gave them more information than God did.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

You say I do not back up my statements. Back up yours.

Regards
DL

To begin with in Genesis 2:
16 And the LORD God commanded the man,saying,Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So Adam knew if he ate of the fruit he would die.

Genesis 3 states: 2 And the woman said unto the serpent,We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,God hath said,Ye shall not eat of it,neither shall ye touch it,lest ye die.

So Eve admits knowing the consequences of eating the fruit. So they were not so innocent as you would like everyone to believe.

You also want everyone to believe that Satan told the truth when in fact the scriptures show he lied by Eve's own admission here:

Genesis 3 states: 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman,What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said,The serpent beguiled me,and I did eat.

"Beguiled" means tricked as in being lied to. She knew she had made a huge mistake and that Satan had "beguiled" or tricked her into eating the fruit.

Adam and Eve knew what they were doing. They were free willed beings and able to make choices thus knowing there were consequences. They were adult humans.

The bible says God created man. The definition is:
man/Noun: An adult human male.
The bible says God created woman. The definition is:
woman/Noun: An adult human female.

So man and women= adult humans. The definition of adult is: Noun: A person who is fully grown or developed.
A person who is fully grown and developed makes choices for themselves and understands consequences.

So stop making A & E out to be so innocent in your silly attempt at making God out to be the bad guy. Unlike you I can and have backed up what I said. Can you do the same? I doubt it.

 

[Greatest I am]

To begin with in Genesis 2:
16 And the LORD God commanded the man,saying,Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil,thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

So Adam knew if he ate of the fruit he would die.

Genesis 3 states: 2 And the woman said unto the serpent,We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden,God hath said,Ye shall not eat of it,neither shall ye touch it,lest ye die.

So Eve admits knowing the consequences of eating the fruit. So they were not so innocent as you would like everyone to believe.

You also want everyone to believe that Satan told the truth when in fact the scriptures show he lied by Eve's own admission here:

Genesis 3 states: 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman,What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said,The serpent beguiled me,and I did eat.

"Beguiled" means tricked as in being lied to. She knew she had made a huge mistake and that Satan had "beguiled" or tricked her into eating the fruit.

Adam and Eve knew what they were doing. They were free willed beings and able to make choices thus knowing there were consequences. They were adult humans.

The bible says God created man. The definition is:
man/Noun: An adult human male.
The bible says God created woman. The definition is:
woman/Noun: An adult human female.

So man and women= adult humans. The definition of adult is: Noun: A person who is fully grown or developed.
A person who is fully grown and developed makes choices for themselves and understands consequences.

So stop making A & E out to be so innocent in your silly attempt at making God out to be the bad guy. Unlike you I can and have backed up what I said. Can you do the same? I doubt it.

Thanks for this.

Third try.
Count the consequences, assign the source, and prove that for yourself.
Let us know how you fare.

You say I do not back up my statements. Back up yours.

You showed one of many consequences. Get the rest and see who informed A & E.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

[h=3]Translation Results:[/h]

beguile [bı'gaıl] English Hebrew V לְהוֹנוֹת, לְהַשְׁלוֹת English Thesaurus: beguile V Deceive by guile, Distract; divert, Pass (time) pleasantly, Amuse or delight Read where the snake is chatting with Eve. She is clearly delighted. Pleasing to the eye etc. Regards DL

 

[doombug]

You make such a weak response I have no idea what you are trying to get at GIA. Try again and be clear.

 

[Greatest I am]

You make such a weak response I have no idea what you are trying to get at GIA. Try again and be clear.

Read the myth and think.

Regards
DL