My Take On God and Religion

[Grimousetie]

Okay, here is what I think.

I really think there is something to it there.

I mean, it's hard to believe that there isn't some kind of divine being if so many people throughout the history of our known world believe that there is something.

It's like instinct, and I think there is something there.

I'm personally Catholic but I believe there is truth to ALL religion. Not one religion is right.

We have some of the picture but not all of it.

We will never truly know until our time comes.

However, I think, all in all, when it comes down to it:

It is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong.

 

[Tangerine]

It is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong.

Hmm. Why?

 

[Grimousetie]

Hmm. Why?

Basically because if you believe and you're wrong, and there is no afterlife, whatever, no skin off your back, right? It's not going to affect you in the end.

But, if you don't believe, and there is a God and afterlife and whatnot, well, you'll have to face the consequences and repercussions. Possibly be "damned" or whatever.

So yeah, the consequences are much greater for those who don't believe if there really is something. And if there isn't and you do believe, well, it isn't going to affect you once you are dead.

Does that make sense?

 

[brieze]

Hmm. Why?

Basically because if you believe and you're wrong, and there is no afterlife, whatever, no skin off your back, right? It's not going to affect you in the end.

But, if you don't believe, and there is a God and afterlife and whatnot, well, you'll have to face the consequences and repercussions. Possibly be "damned" or whatever.

So yeah, the consequences are much greater for those who don't believe if there really is something. And if there isn't and you do believe, well, it isn't going to affect you once you are dead.

Does that make sense?

I'm not sure it's supposed to work like that lol.

 

[Grimousetie]

I'm not sure it's supposed to work like that lol.

Maybe I didn't explain it right, lol, idk.

I just think it's better to believe in the end.

 

[Tangerine]

Hmm. Why?

Basically because if you believe and you're wrong, and there is no afterlife, whatever, no skin off your back, right? It's not going to affect you in the end.

But, if you don't believe, and there is a God and afterlife and whatnot, well, you'll have to face the consequences and repercussions. Possibly be "damned" or whatever.

So yeah, the consequences are much greater for those who don't believe if there really is something. And if there isn't and you do believe, well, it isn't going to affect you once you are dead.

Does that make sense?

It does on that level only.

However, most every religion has lots of "restrictions" and "sacrifices" that are preached to be requirements of heaven. And all tend to use fear of an unpleasant afterlife as a method of pulling you in to their belief system. Personally, I'm pretty sure this is the only life I will ever get to live, so I want to enjoy and savor every moment of it. Sacrificing things that might be pleasant because of someone else's "rules", or living day-to-day racked with fear and guilt are not things I want in my life.

So while no, if there is no afterlife and you believe if won't affect you after you die, but believing could very well rob one of moments of happiness while living, and yes that DOES affect me.

Not a popular thought for people of faith, but does it make sense?

 

[Grimousetie]

Yeah, I see what you are saying.

Religion can be harsh, and that's one of it's major problems.

 

[edgray]

I mean, it's hard to believe that there isn't some kind of divine being if so many people throughout the history of our known world believe that there is something.

Whilst it is true that belief throughout history has been very strong, its simply down to 2 major factors.

Firstly, it was the only known explanation for much of the natural world. Scientific knowledge has been limited throughout history, with the majority of explanations of the natural world happening in the past 100 years. Now, everything that was once explained with Gods is now explainable through science.

Secondly, belief in God correlates with an unstable living situation. Those fearful of their living circumstances are more likely to seek solace in a deity than those who are a lot more comfortable. So things like worker's rights (so it's less likely you'll lose your job) and universal healthcare (so you don't have to worry about catastrophic illness) have had a large impact on people believing in God.

It's like instinct, and I think there is something there.

So you can see that it's not an instinct to believe in God, but more the need for an explanation/meaning and also an emotional crutch for the vulnerable.

We will never truly know until our time comes.

This, according to Sadie and Maz, means you're not a true believer. But it's true, we'll never know for 100% until that time.

However, we do know that all of the phenomenon that used to be called a miracle, or explained as the hand of God is now wrong. There are no miracles, God didn't create the Earth, God didn't create man etc etc.

So we know that God, in the common religious sense, has been a complete myth.

We know so much about the natural world that the ONLY place for God is now as a potential creator of the universe, as in, whatever triggered the big bang. Since then, everything else that has happened has been explained with science.

It is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong.

I disagree with this strongly. Belief in God has very negative effects on society. The most damaging, is the refusal to accept scientific findings. Because science has shown that God didn't make the world in 6 days, and that natural forces did, and that life evolved on Earth, believers in God are more likely to disagree with these truths. This then gives them the self-justification to ignore other scientific discoveries that they don't like: like climate change, for example.

 

[HK]

Whilst I understand where your reasoning comes from, I think it's far better to live your life as a good person, than worry about confirming to any religious ideals about behaviour.

I've never murdered anyone or hurt someone when I didn't have to. I'm not an angel, but I think I can also say I'm not worthy of eternal damnation. I believe it's better to live your life to the full and be happy, than try and have faith in something that you're not 100% about for the sake of playing it safe with the divine.

 

[KimmyCharmeleon]

I once used to think the same thing, but somewhere along the way I changed lol.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Whilst it is true that belief throughout history has been very strong, its simply down to 2 major factors.

Firstly, it was the only known explanation for much of the natural world. Scientific knowledge has been limited throughout history, with the majority of explanations of the natural world happening in the past 100 years. Now, everything that was once explained with Gods is now explainable through science.

Secondly, belief in God correlates with an unstable living situation. Those fearful of their living circumstances are more likely to seek solace in a deity than those who are a lot more comfortable. So things like worker's rights (so it's less likely you'll lose your job) and universal healthcare (so you don't have to worry about catastrophic illness) have had a large impact on people believing in God.



So you can see that it's not an instinct to believe in God, but more the need for an explanation/meaning and also an emotional crutch for the vulnerable.



This, according to Sadie and Maz, means you're not a true believer. But it's true, we'll never know for 100% until that time.

However, we do know that all of the phenomenon that used to be called a miracle, or explained as the hand of God is now wrong. There are no miracles, God didn't create the Earth, God didn't create man etc etc.

So we know that God, in the common religious sense, has been a complete myth.

We know so much about the natural world that the ONLY place for God is now as a potential creator of the universe, as in, whatever triggered the big bang. Since then, everything else that has happened has been explained with science.



I disagree with this strongly. Belief in God has very negative effects on society. The most damaging, is the refusal to accept scientific findings. Because science has shown that God didn't make the world in 6 days, and that natural forces did, and that life evolved on Earth, believers in God are more likely to disagree with these truths. This then gives them the self-justification to ignore other scientific discoveries that they don't like: like climate change, for example.

How does belief in God has a negative effect? I don't hate people because of God, I hate sin, now some people can't tell the difference between either

Scientific findings are mainly speculations that happen to be right in some cases, but not right in all cases. Just because we are advanced now doesn't mean to say we wouldn't be anymore advanced in the future.

I don't believe everything that scientists say, because they have the tendencies to disagree with each other, surely you don't expect one scientists to believe another scientist all the time?
Whilst there are some in religion that refutely believe in everything that scientists say, that is the way they have been taught, just because I don't believe in what some scientists say, doesn't mean I am not open to what they might say in the future. In order to keep my belief in God, I have to question scientist's findings, I refuse to take their words blindly. There is nothing in the Bible so far that I have come across that has me hate religion.

 

[edgray]

How does belief in God has a negative effect? I don't hate people because of God, I hate sin, now some people can't tell the difference between either

Have a read of this thread:

http://offtopicz.net/showthread.php?t=71255

And also, I've mentioned many times before, it makes people far less likely to accept new realities and scientific discoveries. Is it just a coincidence that the most religious western society is the most resistant to climate change?

Scientific findings are mainly speculations that happen to be right in some cases, but not right in all cases. Just because we are advanced now doesn't mean to say we wouldn't be anymore advanced in the future.

No, scientific findings are never speculations. The closest they are to speculations are when "models" (ordinarily mathematic models) are used when a physical experiment simply isn't possible. The more "out-there" theories are still based heavily on mathematical models and of course built upon previous findings.

I don't believe everything that scientists say, because they have the tendencies to disagree with each other, surely you don't expect one scientists to believe another scientist all the time?
Whilst there are some in religion that refutely believe in everything that scientists say, that is the way they have been taught, just because I don't believe in what some scientists say, doesn't mean I am not open to what they might say in the future. In order to keep my belief in God, I have to question scientist's findings, I refuse to take their words blindly. There is nothing in the Bible so far that I have come across that has me hate religion.

Firstly, you have to listen to the consensus. Scientific consensus is the common understanding of scientists on a particular subject. If it's consensus, it's correct. This also helps avoid vested-interest science (like Intelligent Design, Oil-sponsored science etc)

And yes, scientists do disagree. But science is empirical, so it's not just guys making crap up. Again, just look for the consensus.

Also, there isn't anything to "believe" in science. It's not a belief system. It's an explanation of reality. Like people saying "I don't believe in evolution" is beyond absurd. It's a observed phenomenon, it's not something you can believe in or not.

 

[Minor Axis]

It is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong.

So you are just hedging your bets? And I suppose you think God will be impressed?

Whilst I understand where your reasoning comes from, I think it's far better to live your life as a good person, than worry about confirming to any religious ideals about behaviour.

I've never murdered anyone or hurt someone when I didn't have to. I'm not an angel, but I think I can also say I'm not worthy of eternal damnation. I believe it's better to live your life to the full and be happy, than try and have faith in something that you're not 100% about for the sake of playing it safe with the divine.

Most excellent.

 

[Tuffdisc]

Have a read of this thread:

http://offtopicz.net/showthread.php?t=71255

And also, I've mentioned many times before, it makes people far less likely to accept new realities and scientific discoveries. Is it just a coincidence that the most religious western society is the most resistant to climate change?



No, scientific findings are never speculations. The closest they are to speculations are when "models" (ordinarily mathematic models) are used when a physical experiment simply isn't possible. The more "out-there" theories are still based heavily on mathematical models and of course built upon previous findings.



Firstly, you have to listen to the consensus. Scientific consensus is the common understanding of scientists on a particular subject. If it's consensus, it's correct. This also helps avoid vested-interest science (like Intelligent Design, Oil-sponsored science etc)

And yes, scientists do disagree. But science is empirical, so it's not just guys making crap up. Again, just look for the consensus.

Also, there isn't anything to "believe" in science. It's not a belief system. It's an explanation of reality. Like people saying "I don't believe in evolution" is beyond absurd. It's a observed phenomenon, it's not something you can believe in or not.

Sorry, not all consensus are correct, just look at pluto, most scientists do agree that it isn't a planet, yet some remain sceptical as to why this was downgraded from a planet to simply a big rock in space

 

[edgray]

Sorry, not all consensus are correct, just look at pluto, most scientists do agree that it isn't a planet, yet some remain sceptical as to why this was downgraded from a planet to simply a big rock in space

I'm unaware of a scientific consensus being reached on the classification of Pluto, in fact, the scientific community has actually said it hasn't yet reached a consensus:

http://www.psi.edu/press/archive/20080919planetdebate/

So what on (and off) Earth are you talking about?

 

[Grimousetie]

I'm not saying I have to believe in God to be a good person. Hey, I am Catholic but I am not a model Catholic by any means.

I don't believe in HAVING to go to Church nor do I discriminate based on others religions, beliefs, or sexual preferences. I'm a very open-minded person and I don't give a damn if you like it up the ass, so to speak. That's just one example there are other things I don't agree with or whatever.

But yeah, I think there is some form of higher being and we could very well be viewing it all wrongly, but when it comes down to it, I believe there is a God.

Of course, religion doesn't always have a negative affect. In fact, here is an article about a scientific/medical study that showed that persons with higher spirituality/religion have noticeably lower stress levels. In fact, there are studies out there that show that persons who tend to believe/pray and what not have lower stress levels and tend to be more healthy and stuff.

Excuse my bad articulation, haha.

Anyway, here is one article: http://www.springerlink.com/content/8x201q2784571738/

 

[HK]

I feel if there was some higher being that was genuinely interested in our lives on an individual scale, it'd be a lot more obvious.

So although I'm prepared to believe that there certainly could be something out there that's bigger than all of us, I don't believe things like prayer or sacrifices or churches really do anything. In much the same way that we aren't really concerned with ants living in the ground below us, I doubt anything powerful enough to be a creator would have that much interest in us - if they did why haven't we seen it?

 

[Grimousetie]

A lot of people have, and that is why religion exists.

I mean, some of the churches I don't personally agree with because of their views. They misinterpret. I believe those with religion should connect with God on their own level. Even if that means not going to Church or praying if that isn't your thing. You live your life your way, but generally in a good way.

I mean, I think we can make it to heaven on our own merits without church or prayer, within reason of course. Follow the ten commandments and you are golden. They are common sense anyway.

 

[BornReady]

So you are just hedging your bets? And I suppose you think God will be impressed?

Good question. The idea of believing just in case is called Pascal's Wager and it's a bad bet. Even if God exists, we don't know how to impress him. Maybe he's looking for the people in the best physical condition. In which case if you want to impress God then you'd be better off exercising than going to church. That's a pretty silly example but my point is we don't really know what God wants. I think people should forget about impressing God and try to make their life into what they want it to be.

I feel if there was some higher being that was genuinely interested in our lives on an individual scale, it'd be a lot more obvious.

My thought exactly!

 

[Niamh]

Okay, here is what I think.

I really think there is something to it there.

I mean, it's hard to believe that there isn't some kind of divine being if so many people throughout the history of our known world believe that there is something.

It's like instinct, and I think there is something there.
I'm personally Catholic but I believe there is truth to ALL religion. Not one religion is right.

We have some of the picture but not all of it.

We will never truly know until our time comes.

However, I think, all in all, when it comes down to it:

It is better to believe and be wrong than to not believe and be wrong.

I think it's more of a hope in people rather than an instinct. I hope there is something because I don't want there to be nothing once I die but my instinct tells me that there probably is nothing.