More Government takeover

[Accountable]

Well that's the difference between us, you believe in dual federalism and I believe in cooperative federalism. Both have their merits, both have their history in the states.
The problem I have with dual federalism is that it's not that far confederation which would never work in the US. Yet I would never want the US to go to the other extreme of a unitary system...

You don't like one, not because you don't really like it but because it's too close to something you really don't like ... but you like the other even though it's close to something else you don't like. Yup, that's logical. :crazy:

I had to look the terms up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_federalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_federalism

You're right. I believe the country should be run as a dual federation as the Constitution is written and as the Founders intended the country to be run. You believe in cooperative federalism which is a bastardization of the original ideal in which lawyers try to find loopholes in the original document to suck as much power as possible into Washington DC.

Here's a novel idea. If you (collective you, not specific) don't like the Constitution as written, amend it or get rid of it. Don't ignore or try to manipulate it as it suits you.

 

[edgray]

What part of our Constitution sets up a federal student loan agency?

was this an issue when the constitution was written?

 

[Accountable]

was this an issue when the constitution was written?

Absolutely. The issue was that the federal gov't would hold as little power as possible, so as to prevent the tyranny from which the rest of the world suffered.

 

[Accountable]

Time out for a semi-related announcement:

I tripped over this gold mine!
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwdg.html

It's a complete compilation of the Letters of Delegates to Congress debating what should be in the Constitution.

"The twenty-six volumes of the Letters of Delegates to Congress, 1774-1789 aims to make available all the documents written by delegates that bear directly upon their work during their years of actual service in the First and Second Continental Congresses, 1774-1789."

 

[edgray]

Absolutely. The issue was that the federal gov't would hold as little power as possible, so as to prevent the tyranny from which the rest of the world suffered.

So private tyranny is ok?

Also, even if something is a better way of managing things, it shouldn't be done because of opinion that is hundreds of years old?

 

[Accountable]

So private tyranny is ok?

Also, even if something is a better way of managing things, it shouldn't be done because of opinion that is hundreds of years old?

You can stretch it out of context however you want. It doesn't change anything. How's the EU universal healthcare and education program going?

 

[edgray]

You can stretch it out of context however you want. It doesn't change anything. How's the EU universal healthcare and education program going?

pretty good I think. People are healed and educated to a good level. I think the education system could be structured better, and in the UK there needs to be more investment in the schools in the poorer areas, and perhaps alter the Degree system to provide more vocational education rather than so many Degrees in "media" and the like, but overall, it's plugging along nicely.

Did you see the thread I posted about Progressive Conservatism? I'm seriously contemplating voting Tory at the next election in the UK - you should read their ideas on big society, tiny govt - very positive ideas indeed.

 

[Tim]

You don't like one, not because you don't really like it but because it's too close to something you really don't like ... but you like the other even though it's close to something else you don't like. Yup, that's logical. :crazy:

I had to look the terms up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_federalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooperative_federalism

You're right. I believe the country should be run as a dual federation as the Constitution is written and as the Founders intended the country to be run. You believe in cooperative federalism which is a bastardization of the original ideal in which lawyers try to find loopholes in the original document to suck as much power as possible into Washington DC.

Here's a novel idea. If you (collective you, not specific) don't like the Constitution as written, amend it or get rid of it. Don't ignore or try to manipulate it as it suits you.

When you get a moment, read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federalism_in_the_United_States
It better describes the beginnings of federalism in the US. There are some good books about this as well.

 

[Minor Axis]

I know exactly what changed. Forgive me for wording it less clearly than I could have. The "only change" you speak of is not some little insignificant detail. The vast majority of education loans ARE affected.

Are you getting your news from Fox? Your thread is titled "more government takeover" clearly indicating an anti-government tone. However, if I understand it correctly, the government is no longer guaranteeing student loans from 3rd party banks only the loans the government issues. So in essence, before the government was subsidizing your bank loan (from default), facilitating a lower interest rate for you. Now the bank's loan rate will probably go up or it will be harder to get a loan from them cause (tell me if I'm wrong), the default (failure) rate on guaranteed student loans is relatively high.

As all good conservatives think government subsidizes are bad, this should be a good thing to you, right? I don't see how this is a government takeover. It's a reduction of a previous government guarantee in the private sector although a very small reduction. From a conservative viewpoint, it should be a move in the right direction, no?

BTW, banks offer loans to make money, the U.S. government offers student loans to give students a chance at a higher education, not for profit. If banks want to compete against government student loans, they will have to be competitive. Someone with more knowledge than I have will have to tell me why this is bad.