Moammar Gadhafi and Libya

[Peter Parka]

We were attacked.
This is what drew us into the middle east.

Wtf has the middle east got to do with Africa?

 

[Tangerine]

Good to see the people of the country overthrowing their rulers rather than the USA bombing the shit out of it and telling everyone what kind of government they should have.

Do you not think that the two are VERY tightly related?

 

[Peter Parka]

Do you not think that the two are VERY tightly related?

No, differtent cultures have different ways. Believe it or not, not all countries want to be governed in the same way as the USA.

 

[Tangerine]

No, differtent cultures have different ways. Believe it or not, not all countries want to be governed in the same way as the USA.

I don't believe any of this (Egypt, Libya et al) would be happening today had we not opened the door by removing Saddam from Iraq. It was very messy and poorly thought out, but I believe we're starting to see what was the end game all along. Plant one flag of freedom in the middle, and in time it will spread on it's own. It was never about an "American style" of government, except in that like America, people are free to choose for themselves how they want to be governed.

 

[Alien Allen]

I agree that we should stay out of it for the most part... But if he embarks on a wholesale slaughter of his people, the world won't sit idly by... at least that's my impression

why do you say that given the fact there have been worse slaughters in recent memory where the world sat idly by??

 

[Peter Parka]

I don't believe any of this (Egypt, Libya et al) would be happening today had we not opened the door by removing Saddam from Iraq. It was very messy and poorly thought out, but I believe we're starting to see what was the end game all along. Plant one flag of freedom in the middle, and in time it will spread on it's own. It was never about an "American style" of government, except in that like America, people are free to choose for themselves how they want to be governed.

I think if we wanted to get rid of Gaddafi we could have at least started from a better place than releasing a mass murdering terrorist home to them to a heros welcome.:thumbdown

Really dont see what Iraq has to do with this, two completely different countries.

 

[Maldoror]

Really? Lebanon? Iran? You don't think groups such as Hezbollah would love to step in and up their political power by "bringing stability" to the area? Riiiighhhhttttt.... There's always someone looking to take advatage of other people's misfortunes in all parts of the world.

no they don't. I live in Lebanon, I'm atheist, liberal and have all my freedom to do whatever the fuck I want.
my rights and freedoms are literally protected and ensured by hezbollah. it blows my mind how so many westerners are uninformed and yet opinionated about the middle-east.

 

[Maldoror]

I don't believe any of this (Egypt, Libya et al) would be happening today had we not opened the door by removing Saddam from Iraq. It was very messy and poorly thought out, but I believe we're starting to see what was the end game all along. Plant one flag of freedom in the middle, and in time it will spread on it's own. It was never about an "American style" of government, except in that like America, people are free to choose for themselves how they want to be governed.

facepalm.

 

[skyblue]

saudi next perhaps?

 

[Maldoror]

that's unthinkable. but it was also unthinkable for me to see revolutions in Libya, Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen and Bahrain.

 

[Zorak]

I don't believe any of this (Egypt, Libya et al) would be happening today had we not opened the door by removing Saddam from Iraq. It was very messy and poorly thought out, but I believe we're starting to see what was the end game all along. Plant one flag of freedom in the middle, and in time it will spread on it's own. It was never about an "American style" of government, except in that like America, people are free to choose for themselves how they want to be governed.

Care to give reasons and facts and an explanation for this train of thought?

Because I cannot see it.

 

[Zorak]

saudi next perhaps?

They love their dictator in Saudi Arabia, for some reason..

 

[skyblue]

They love their dictator in Saudi Arabia, for some reason..

or are they terrified of speaking out in fear of body parts being cut off?

 

[Alexis]

It doesn't matter what the world thinks. He is a dictator and will not give up power unless forced out. I wish them well, but a democracy? I hope so, but it's not likely.

 

[Azazel]

This is going to get very ugly, very, very ugly

​

 

[Guyzerr]

Care to give reasons and facts and an explanation for this train of thought?

Because I cannot see it.

According to some prof I was listening to on the radio today the average age of someone in Libya is 26 years old and considering they have access to the internet etc they were the reason it took off like it did. They heard enough about liberty, freedom and all that it stands for and decided they want a piece of it. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than someone stating it's due to the removal of Sadam et al.

 

[Meirionnydd]

Really? Lebanon? Iran? You don't think groups such as Hezbollah would love to step in and up their political power by "bringing stability" to the area? Riiiighhhhttttt.... There's always someone looking to take advatage of other people's misfortunes in all parts of the world.

Lebanon and Iran are two completely different scenarios. Let's not paint everyone in this region with the same brush, shall we?

Besides, Libya is primarily a tribal state nation, with Gadhafi kept in power by a series of formal alliances with other tribal leaders (whose leaders are promised powerful positions in government). As such, the revolution has followed mainly tribal lines thus far.

Quite strange that we in the West are now so preoccupied with the motivations of the protesters in these recent uprisings, and quite often come to the most worrying conclusion (they must be extremists). It's a shame really, we should be putting our full support behind these people in fighting for rights that many of us take for granted.

 

[Guyzerr]

Lebanon and Iran are two completely different scenarios. Let's not paint everyone in this region with the same brush, shall we?

Besides, Libya is primarily a tribal state nation, with Gadhafi kept in power by a series of formal alliances with other tribal leaders (whose leaders are promised powerful positions in government). As such, the revolution has followed mainly tribal lines thus far.

Quite strange that we in the West are now so preoccupied with the motivations of the protesters in these recent uprisings, and quite often come to the most worrying conclusion (they must be extremists). It's a shame really, we should be putting our full support behind these people in fighting for rights that many of us take for granted.

I'm pretty sure that's going to happen but only after everyone gets their citizens out of Libya. If they don't get 'em out first everyone of them will become a hostage.

 

[Tangerine]

According to some prof I was listening to on the radio today the average age of someone in Libya is 26 years old and considering they have access to the internet etc they were the reason it took off like it did. They heard enough about liberty, freedom and all that it stands for and decided they want a piece of it. Makes a hell of a lot more sense than someone stating it's due to the removal of Sadam et al.

You don't believe that two decades of heavy Western presence in Iraq has played any role in the exposure to western culture?

 

[Peter Parka]

I see Gaddafi is now blaming bin Laden for duping young people with drugs and alcohol.:24:

Seriously, someone needs to cart that guy off in a straight jacket!:willy_nilly: